PG Conversion.. Know its been covered..

[VladTepes 160]

i picked up a 223 but changed my mind and decided to go 7.62... i read a lot about converting the 223 in regards to part count fcg etc.. i just need to know if there is anything different in regards to doing 7.62... anything i need to keep in mind or look out for.. thanks.. and pelase feel free to post ANY usefull info you have on the PG conversion.. i really want to start this soon.. should be picking up the 7.62 monday..

 

edit PG not OG obviously...

Edited October 25, 2008 by DamagedWorld

[kresk 10,063]

The 7.62 needs a bullet ramp and you don't need to mess with the mag well to get hi-cap mags to fit.

 

(Fixed your topic title for ya.)

[VladTepes 160]

The 7.62 needs a bullet ramp and you don't need to mess with the mag well to get hi-cap mags to fit.

 

(Fixed your topic title for ya.)

 

 

im a NJ resident so i can't get high capacity magazines... let me make clear what im looking to do exactly and you can let me know if im on the right track...

 

i just basically want my saiga (in 7.62) to have a pistol grip and a 15 round mag (highest you can get in jersey)

 

so i plan to use..

 

a US made 15 round mag (at least two US parts?)

a US FCG (two US parts?)

a US PG

a US stock

 

which brings me to 6 (or 7 not sure about the mag) US made patrs, this SHOULD make the rifle legal?

 

when doing the conversion i didnt think i needed more than that.. what is a "bullet ramp" and is this something i need to change out just to do the PG conversion i want to do?

 

thanks a lot for the title edit and any additional information you can provide.. its appreciated..

[kresk 10,063]

Since NJ has some peculiarities to their laws hopefully one of the forum members from that state will help answer some of your specific questions.

[VladTepes 160]

Since NJ has some peculiarities to their laws hopefully one of the forum members from that state will help answer some of your specific questions.

 

 

im pretty sure legally im fine.. i called teh state police.. my concern was 992 compliance..

 

and what about my parts list.. am i missing anything.. any hints or tips..

[larain60 0]

Since NJ has some peculiarities to their laws hopefully one of the forum members from that state will help answer some of your specific questions.

 

 

im pretty sure legally im fine.. i called teh state police.. my concern was 992 compliance..

 

and what about my parts list.. am i missing anything.. any hints or tips..

 

Hello,

 

Its easier if you count imported parts. YMMV not legal advice yada yada, but my understanding is that you need to keep import parts at 10 or less. You can find the letter re. AKs here somewhere.

 

Based on what you said it looks like youre at 6 imported parts which means you GTG.

 

(1) Receiver

(2) Barrels

(3) Mounting blocks, trunnion (rifles only)

(4) Bolts

(5) Bolt carriers

(6) Gas pistons

 

For NJ compliant mags, SUREFIRE mags (not flashlight maker) makes 15 round SAIGA magazines. If this will be your only AK, you may consider just using them without adding the bullet guide to the rifle as the mags have a bullet guide built into them. If you have other AKs, then it makes sense to add bullet guide to the rifle and mod the mag release/catch to feed double stack AK mags. You can still buy the Saiga 15 rounders from surefire, but you will then need to modify the mags slightly as well but cutting off the small tit on the top of the mags (removing the magazine built in bullet guide) so they fit the modded Saiga that you installed the bullet guide.

 

If you go with Surefires, just make sure they only take 15 not 16 rounds - the first batch or few of them allegedly fed 16 rounds which will get you F&SHW in NJ.

 

Hope this helps.

Edited October 26, 2008 by Larain60

[VladTepes 160]

Since NJ has some peculiarities to their laws hopefully one of the forum members from that state will help answer some of your specific questions.

 

 

im pretty sure legally im fine.. i called teh state police.. my concern was 992 compliance..

 

and what about my parts list.. am i missing anything.. any hints or tips..

 

Hello,

 

Its easier if you count imported parts. YMMV not legal advice yada yada, but my understanding is that you need to keep import parts at 10 or less. You can find the letter re. AKs here somewhere.

 

Based on what you said it looks like youre at 6 imported parts which means you GTG.

 

(1) Receiver

(2) Barrels

(3) Mounting blocks, trunnion (rifles only)

(4) Bolts

(5) Bolt carriers

(6) Gas pistons

 

For NJ compliant mags, SUREFIRE mags (not flashlight maker) makes 15 round SAIGA magazines. If this will be your only AK, you may consider just using them without adding the bullet guide to the rifle as the mags have a bullet guide built into them. If you have other AKs, then it makes sense to add bullet guide to the rifle and mod the mag release/catch to feed double stack AK mags. You can still buy the Saiga 15 rounders from surefire, but you will then need to modify the mags slightly as well but cutting off the small tit on the top of the mags (removing the magazine built in bullet guide) so they fit the modded Saiga that you installed the bullet guide.

 

If you go with Surefires, just make sure they only take 15 not 16 rounds - the first batch or few of them allegedly fed 16 rounds which will get you F&SHW in NJ.

 

Hope this helps.

yes im looking at the sure fire mag... this may or may not be my only ak.. but if i do another it will STILL be a saiga.. so the mag should work..

 

thanks a lot you guys are really helpfull...

 

im hung up on the trigger guard and understanding exactly what has to happen with that..

[larain60 0]

Since NJ has some peculiarities to their laws hopefully one of the forum members from that state will help answer some of your specific questions.

 

 

im pretty sure legally im fine.. i called teh state police.. my concern was 992 compliance..

 

and what about my parts list.. am i missing anything.. any hints or tips..

 

Hello,

 

Its easier if you count imported parts. YMMV not legal advice yada yada, but my understanding is that you need to keep import parts at 10 or less. You can find the letter re. AKs here somewhere.

 

Based on what you said it looks like youre at 6 imported parts which means you GTG.

 

(1) Receiver

(2) Barrels

(3) Mounting blocks, trunnion (rifles only)

(4) Bolts

(5) Bolt carriers

(6) Gas pistons

 

For NJ compliant mags, SUREFIRE mags (not flashlight maker) makes 15 round SAIGA magazines. If this will be your only AK, you may consider just using them without adding the bullet guide to the rifle as the mags have a bullet guide built into them. If you have other AKs, then it makes sense to add bullet guide to the rifle and mod the mag release/catch to feed double stack AK mags. You can still buy the Saiga 15 rounders from surefire, but you will then need to modify the mags slightly as well but cutting off the small tit on the top of the mags (removing the magazine built in bullet guide) so they fit the modded Saiga that you installed the bullet guide.

 

If you go with Surefires, just make sure they only take 15 not 16 rounds - the first batch or few of them allegedly fed 16 rounds which will get you F&SHW in NJ.

 

Hope this helps.

yes im looking at the sure fire mag... this may or may not be my only ak.. but if i do another it will STILL be a saiga.. so the mag should work..

 

thanks a lot you guys are really helpfull...

 

im hung up on the trigger guard and understanding exactly what has to happen with that..

 

What do you mean by TG? Question on installing or removing?

 

If installing, dont worry about installing the screw up front you can just tuck it under the mag release and it will fit snug and be secure. You then run a screw and nut through the rear and cut down the screw on the inside of the receiver where it comes up.

[quikz 1]

You can check my post: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...66&hl=quikz

 

 

Am in NJ ( ) and have high cap mags at a friend's place in PA, when we go shoot in PA. I did not have good luck with my Sure Fire Mags, LLC 15-rounders. They would FTF at least once in each of the two mags I bought.

 

But I would HIGHLY recommend the Sure Fire, LLC Mag Couplers. They fit the Surefire mags exact since it is a proprietary part and gives you quick access to 30-rds anyway when (2) 15-rounders are coupled together. These mag couplers also work well with the excellent 30-round Master Molder mags.

[taurussvt 0]

I've made NJ legal 15 round pro mags for myself before.

 

There's also a guy who lives and works in NJ who goes by the name PK-90 on ar15.com who's gonna be making 15 round pro mags soon. If you search my user name you should be able to find my write up of how to make the 15 rounders.

Where in NJ are you? I may be able to help you out with doing your conversion. At the very least I've got a drill press to install a bullet guide.

[csspecs 1,987]

Yeah you should be able to do that. If you can weld two together then you should be able to cut them off and weld the bottom back on. I could do that with two magazines make a 45 and a 15.... Anyone want a 45?

[VladTepes 160]

What do you mean by TG? Question on installing or removing?

 

If installing, dont worry about installing the screw up front you can just tuck it under the mag release and it will fit snug and be secure. You then run a screw and nut through the rear and cut down the screw on the inside of the receiver where it comes up.

 

my question is regarding if i can reuse the one that came with it or if i need a new one.. and i think that you basically just answered that for me.. lol

[VladTepes 160]

I've made NJ legal 15 round pro mags for myself before.

 

There's also a guy who lives and works in NJ who goes by the name PK-90 on ar15.com who's gonna be making 15 round pro mags soon. If you search my user name you should be able to find my write up of how to make the 15 rounders.

Where in NJ are you? I may be able to help you out with doing your conversion. At the very least I've got a drill press to install a bullet guide.

 

your help offer is really appreciated.. i dont think that im going to need the bullet guide i was thinking of just using the aftermarket saiga mage.. i dont need to do anything to the bullet guide do i ?

 

 

You can check my post: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...66&hl=quikz

 

 

Am in NJ ( ) and have high cap mags at a friend's place in PA, when we go shoot in PA. I did not have good luck with my Sure Fire Mags, LLC 15-rounders. They would FTF at least once in each of the two mags I bought.

 

But I would HIGHLY recommend the Sure Fire, LLC Mag Couplers. They fit the Surefire mags exact since it is a proprietary part and gives you quick access to 30-rds anyway when (2) 15-rounders are coupled together. These mag couplers also work well with the excellent 30-round Master Molder mags.

 

 

if the mag fails they will take it back? and if it works right in the begining its not like its going to fail later? like it works or it doesnt? its not like it will stop working if i get a good working mag?

[quikz 1]

I contacted Sure Fire Mags LLC about my mags. They stonewalled me. But what can we do? This is the ONLY BS hi-cap option for us.

 

I think you may get lucky and get a better 15-rnd from Sure Fire Mags. I heard they 'improved' upon the newer ones.

[taurussvt 0]

I've made NJ legal 15 round pro mags for myself before.

 

There's also a guy who lives and works in NJ who goes by the name PK-90 on ar15.com who's gonna be making 15 round pro mags soon. If you search my user name you should be able to find my write up of how to make the 15 rounders.

Where in NJ are you? I may be able to help you out with doing your conversion. At the very least I've got a drill press to install a bullet guide.

 

your help offer is really appreciated.. i dont think that im going to need the bullet guide i was thinking of just using the aftermarket saiga mage.. i dont need to do anything to the bullet guide do i ?

 

 

You can check my post: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...66&hl=quikz

 

 

Am in NJ ( ) and have high cap mags at a friend's place in PA, when we go shoot in PA. I did not have good luck with my Sure Fire Mags, LLC 15-rounders. They would FTF at least once in each of the two mags I bought.

 

But I would HIGHLY recommend the Sure Fire, LLC Mag Couplers. They fit the Surefire mags exact since it is a proprietary part and gives you quick access to 30-rds anyway when (2) 15-rounders are coupled together. These mag couplers also work well with the excellent 30-round Master Molder mags.

 

 

if the mag fails they will take it back? and if it works right in the begining its not like its going to fail later? like it works or it doesnt? its not like it will stop working if i get a good working mag?

Whether or not you're planning on using regular AK magazines you should do the bullet guide. A sure fire mag will still work, and the factory mag will still work although you may have to file the feed lip down a bit. With the bullet guide you'll be able to use any one of the millions of AK magazines out there. At the very least it will add to the value of the gun. It's really not that expensive or hard to do either if you've got the right tools.

Offer to help you do a complete conversion and add bullet guide still stands. I'm in the northern most part of Hudson county BTW.

[VladTepes 160]

Whether or not you're planning on using regular AK magazines you should do the bullet guide. A sure fire mag will still work, and the factory mag will still work although you may have to file the feed lip down a bit. With the bullet guide you'll be able to use any one of the millions of AK magazines out there. At the very least it will add to the value of the gun. It's really not that expensive or hard to do either if you've got the right tools.

Offer to help you do a complete conversion and add bullet guide still stands. I'm in the northern most part of Hudson county BTW.

 

 

thanks for the offer its really appreciated... i give this forum a ton of credit.. you guys are all extremely helpful and nice... lol its made this project a lot less scary knowing i have the knowledge and skill of this forum here to help.. i may take you up on your offer not sure.. in regardsw to the mod.. i dont see using ak mags since i may end up counting on the mag for parts count i doubt id do th ebullet guide.. but ill definately give it thought..

 

 

 

 

 

one more question..

 

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/Step_7.htm

 

i dont understand this portion of the instructions where he puts those two aluminum posts in the back with the spring...

 

 

 

edit

wow i wrote that really fast and had HORRID grammar and spelling.. sorry about that.. lol

Edited October 28, 2008 by DamagedWorld

[VladTepes 160]

eh couple other questions... sorry...

 

BHO with PG conversion? do i have any issues with retaining that...

 

and my front sights look a LITTLE off center?

 

lastly optics... im looking at shooting this rifle in the sub 200 yard range... suggestions?

[taurussvt 0]

I'm gonna answer both your posts in one. The cross-con web site is pretty old. Lots of this such as the use of the binding posts don't really need to be done any more. He used the binding posts for 2 reasons. First was so that he would have a place to attach the original trigger group retaining spring, and second to cover the holes. Since then many people have chosen to just buy a trigger group retaining plate, use a shepherds crook, or just use cir clips in order to retain the pins. As far as the 4 left over holes in the receiver go, you can use nylon hole plugs available at lowes or home depot for a few cents. They look almost identical to the rivets used in other places on the rifles and don't look out of place.

With the BHO lever you won't have an issue with the pistol grip. If you feel like it's bothering your finger you can push up on the lever, mark the exposed portion of the lever and then cut that amount off. I don't think it sticks out too far though.

Front sight being off center isn't that big of a deal. Lots of AK's have "Canted" front sight blocks that end up causing the post to be slightly off center. It would be nice to have the post dead center, but depending on how far it's off it may not justify attempting to move the front sight block.

As far as scopes go, I'm a little biased. I like the POSP scopes. You can get them from several places for relatively little money, they attach to the factory rail on the left side of the receiver, hold zero pretty damn well for a scope that you're taking on and off, and almost always have a built in range finder as well as bullet drop compensator. This is the one that I have. Not bad for the money at all. http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=72

[VladTepes 160]

I'm gonna answer both your posts in one. The cross-con web site is pretty old. Lots of this such as the use of the binding posts don't really need to be done any more. He used the binding posts for 2 reasons. First was so that he would have a place to attach the original trigger group retaining spring, and second to cover the holes. Since then many people have chosen to just buy a trigger group retaining plate, use a shepherds crook, or just use cir clips in order to retain the pins. As far as the 4 left over holes in the receiver go, you can use nylon hole plugs available at lowes or home depot for a few cents. They look almost identical to the rivets used in other places on the rifles and don't look out of place.

With the BHO lever you won't have an issue with the pistol grip. If you feel like it's bothering your finger you can push up on the lever, mark the exposed portion of the lever and then cut that amount off. I don't think it sticks out too far though.

Front sight being off center isn't that big of a deal. Lots of AK's have "Canted" front sight blocks that end up causing the post to be slightly off center. It would be nice to have the post dead center, but depending on how far it's off it may not justify attempting to move the front sight block.

As far as scopes go, I'm a little biased. I like the POSP scopes. You can get them from several places for relatively little money, they attach to the factory rail on the left side of the receiver, hold zero pretty damn well for a scope that you're taking on and off, and almost always have a built in range finder as well as bullet drop compensator. This is the one that I have. Not bad for the money at all. http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=72

 

ok thanks... so just to be clear.. if i buy http://www.dinzagarms.com/misc_parts/fcg.html i dont have to be concerned with all that post extra spring nonsense...

 

and my question about the BHO is ill be able to easily retain that?

 

in regards to the optics i wasnt sure if i wanted a scope or something more like a tactical site something like red dot for rapid target line up.. but again im new to this thats why im asking.. is a scope like you described more calculated target aquisition, vs rapid closer range? what kind of range can i even expect for those tactical red dot style sites..

 

 

thanks again for all the help!

 

thanks again for all the help..

[taurussvt 0]

If you buy that fire control group from Dinzag arms you won't need anything else. He cuts down the tube for you so that the BHO will work, includes cir clips (I don't personally like them) and even gives you the nylon hole plugs from what I've heard.

With the optics, I kind of prefer to scope a rifle. Target acquisition with the particular scope I linked to is pretty quick for me. It's not like you're trying to use the center of cross hairs on a regular scope. You've got a big upside down arrow(delta) in the middle of the thing that lights up in red. If you're trying to acquire the target quickly but not necessarily accurately you can quickly get that delta on the target. I used to have a red dot on my gun but got sick of having a giant 2" dot to aim with. I wanted something that was as small as possible so that I could improve my aiming skills. I'm at the point where I can get sub MOA with my rifle using shitty ammo. Its cost me a couple thousand rounds and tons of time though.

[larain60 0]

Re the BHO, there is a 2 part video on youtube

 

 

you can keep it with the pg conversion