Led Slinger 0 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Upon approval of a second NFA stamp on my Tromix 8" S12 would it have to be done by Tromix or someone with a class 2 manufacture license? Has anyone done one yet? ? How would that go if I decided to? I have not spoke with Tony yet. Would it cost an arm & a leg? Just curious? Thanks, Led Slinger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 You would need a registered receiver that would be usable for the purpose. No new machine guns can be made (Thank you, FOPA 86) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakko 10 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Not quite. There's no way a private party can own a full auto Saiga since there aren't any pre-'86 and transferrable. A post sample can be made, but only owned by an LE agency or dealer. Annoying. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnp 1 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 On the ATF FOrm One in "Definitions" in the instructions, it says that a machine gun can only be made under a government contract or for export. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Led Slinger 0 Posted November 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 Well that sucks but it will save me some $$$ Thanks for the replies Led Slinger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigj480 203 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 I've always wondered how much someone can modify a RR machine gun before the ATF disapproves. Don't you have to send them info about permanent changes to get approval? For instance, if someone had a RR AK and decided to mutilate it and make it into an auto Saiga-12 clone(would be ignorant). What about Sten magazine conversions for M11/9s? I'm sure a permanent change of calibers would be turned down, but the rest is kind of a gray area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wakko 10 Posted November 3, 2008 Report Share Posted November 3, 2008 That's been a problem. People making full auto higher end guns, then taking a registered Mac-10 receiver, cutting it up, and welding the serial number plate to the new gun. You end up with a full auto 1919 that has paperwork that says Mac-10. Needless to say, it's illegal, and if you get suckered into buying one, you'll end up with nothing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Led Slinger 0 Posted November 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2008 I really don't think I would go through the trouble or expense but I was wondering about something like that after you guys replied. How about if you had the 10-15+ grand, legally purchase a registered full auto AK 47 or receiver only if one could be found. Would it then be possible or permissible to do a little conversion?. Does the ATF ever allow caliber changes with or without their nominal fees on a registered receiver? Way, way too much trouble. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigj480 203 Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 (edited) I really don't think I would go through the trouble or expense but I was wondering about something like that after you guys replied. How about if you had the 10-15+ grand, legally purchase a registered full auto AK 47 or receiver only if one could be found. Would it then be possible or permissible to do a little conversion?. Does the ATF ever allow caliber changes with or without their nominal fees on a registered receiver? Way, way too much trouble. I'm pretty sure it is acceptable to change calibers on any RR as long as the gun can be easily switched back. This is one of the reasons M16s are so popular, you basically just have to swap uppers and add a mag block if necessary. I think it would be virtually impossible to accomplish a legal 12 gauge conversion of an AK because of the design of the weapon and permanent mods required. Not to mention, it would be pretty stupid to attempt. However, just for the hell of it, what would be required? Trunnion mods, barrel swap, mag well mods, gas system mods, bolt swap/mods, internals? Edited November 5, 2008 by bigj480 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted November 5, 2008 Report Share Posted November 5, 2008 I'm not totally sure how this is done but see this thread http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry192852 Now, that being said... if you're willing to spend some $$$, a VERY HIGHLY competent smith can weld a wire to the serial number or identifcation portion of the receiver or trunion and also weld the wire to another area of the receiver. Then they can cut the trunion metal or sheetmetal AS LONG AS the portion of metal that contains the information REMAINS ATTACHED TO THE RECEIVER. Then bend the metal wire and relocate the serial number or other ID marks to another area of the receiver and weld them back on. Then cut the metal wire. Then repair the receiver portions of the receiver that you cut off. And finally cutting/converting the receiver to Saiga 12 specs. Additionally, you'd have to have the smith destroy an S12 to get an S12 trunion and parts. This is a type of conversion that I probably would only have Tony do or someone that can actually MAKE guns do. Terry Dyer does a similar type serial number procedure when he converts HK91s to beltfed HK21s because the serial number is on the magwell (which doesn't exist anymore once it's a beltfed). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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