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Guys,

 

This issue has been resolved to my satisfaction. I am without the gun that I wanted but at least this issue for me is laid

to rest. Thanks to CK43001 for keeping me in the loop as needed and answering my PM's promptly. Also, thanks to everyone on this board for their input regardless of their position on this issue. Best of luck to Esteban and his new business venture.

 

Regards,

Highspeed

 

Highspeed,

 

I am sorry you could not get the gun you wanted but I am glad you were able to get your money back. :cryss:

 

Forum owners,

I understand that business members play an essential part in the forum revenues :dollar::dollar::dollar: .

 

That being said, I do not think that it is fair for the readers and regular board members to keep business members who have less than ethical business practices. :ded:

 

It is easy enough to set up a space where members can complain "in private" :NO: about any sponsor/business practices and share their experience with you and it is your responsibility to inform, warn about and possibly suspend, terminate or ban offending business members. :batman:

After all, moderating practices of your partners is also for your own sake... :up:

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One word...WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA   This does NOT belong in this section! Just because the S-12 section is the most viewed, that doesn't give you a right to hang your "dirty laundry" here. You are abusing

Guys... He has been already warned that this was coming.   I told him that I would post this and I am a man of my word. So here it is.   He has missed 4 delivery dates. The last was 11/12 and t

I think there have been some points to this thread that have been SEVERELY OVERLOOKED.   First, Esteban is a GREAT gunsmith and EXTEMELY talented. He produces a great product and is a VALUED memb

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Highspeed,

 

I am sorry you could not get the gun you wanted but I am glad you were able to get your money back. :cryss:

 

Forum owners,

I understand that business members play an essential part in the forum revenues :dollar::dollar::dollar: .

 

That being said, I do not think that it is fair for the readers and regular board members to keep business members who have less than ethical business practices. :ded:

 

It is easy enough to set up a space where members can complain "in private" :NO: about any sponsor/business practices and share their experience with you and it is your responsibility to inform, warn about and possibly suspend, terminate or ban offending business members. :batman:

After all, moderating practices of your partners is also for your own sake... :up:

 

You can complain as much as you wish..... here on this forum.... just not in that vendors space... we have a feedback section for that..

as you see, info flows quite freely.

 

I feel vendors are not given any "Special treatment" as far as review from forum members...

We DO have a search feature on this board...

 

Vendor areas are paid for ad space... how unprofessional would we look to allow every shill that comes along to spew their crap in paid for space...

 

the space for you to vent and review vendors and product is right here on this very forum....

 

Before you put you money down... do your OWN homework... that is not my job...

 

If you make crappy financial decisions... that is YOUR bad.. Not mine... Don't even try and put that crap on the mods or owners here...

 

this very thread goes un opposed and edit free here in the feedback section...

 

Caveat Emptor

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I think there have been some points to this thread that have been SEVERELY OVERLOOKED.

 

First, Esteban is a GREAT gunsmith and EXTEMELY talented. He produces a great product and is a VALUED member.

 

Yes, he has made some mistakes and misjudged the demand for his product which upset some people, but since then he has made every reasonable attempt to make up for his faults and is trying to start over.

 

The important thing is, he ADMITTED his fault and I think he deserves a second chance. That will never happen if people keep beating this dead horse and reminding all the new guys of a problem that has been dealt with.

 

What if when one of the many times YOU screwed up and everytime you got back on your feet, there was some dude standing there waiting to kick you in the balls?

 

Let this thread die.

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  • 10 months later...

I Agree that it looks like Esteban at E-Tac or Gogun.us does great work. However that being said I have now been waiting 15 months for my Krink Sidekick. After being promised over and over again that I would have mine 6-8 weeks every time I have spoken to Them I get the same answer, I am on the top of the list and it should be done 6-8 weeks. I sent my own gun and still waiting for it to come back.

Lately I have not been getting replies by email and no one is answering the phone over there. Does anyone know what is going on at Gogun? I see that Jammer is still posting often, I just want the same as the other guy an honest estimate of how much more time I will be waiting, and be sure everything is on track. I try to be patient but 15 months is 10 times longer than originally promised.

I have been on pins and needles excited to get my gun back, I am so very impressed with Esteban's work just hope I don't have to wait a whole two years before I get my Saiga back.

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Thanks Tony I was looking for that but couldn't find it. Hopefully I will hear from them after the Holidays. By the one my friends has your S-17 awesome work seriously the funnest gun I have ever shot. Good work.

 

Below is my Red Jacket gun Will did a great job and treated me right all along the way.

post-22018-12612592570468_thumb.jpg

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  • 4 months later...

Hey, Etac ripped me off to man. I met them at a gunshow in honolulu and they showed me their great gunsmith service abilities at their booth. so I sent them a rifle, my custom folding stock and a check for $1250.00 to convert my saiga-12 into a tromix like configuration in 2007. After being so patient they sent my rifle back to me in 2010 with only a pistol grip conversion no stock attached, original parts missing and their refund check bounced. I got real mad and checked all 3 of their "locations" and all their doors were locked everytime and when I looked through their windows they had no tools, no machines nothing. just empty. I find it very disturbing that the saiga gunsmiths on this forum hold this guy in such high regards and recommendations.

 

 

- Kushnapup

Edited by Kushnapup
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Oh here we go again...

 

Man, this blog just never goes away.

 

You Think people would learn to stay clear of him and his products.

 

People... there are many local builders who can work on Saiga's, they are AKs after all.

 

You should not have to beg and deal to get your gun back or what you paid for.

 

Go local first, so if the builder tries to screw you over you can show up to his shop with the police and get your gun back.

 

The guy lives on an Island.

 

Live and Learn

Edited by macgyverhk
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ETAC is the most dishonest outfit I have ever dealt with.

 

They've had my money ($1050) and Saiga 12 + all the parts for over two years now (since March 2008).

 

I've requested a refund and return of my gun several times. They say sure, no problem. Then I call back after hearing/getting nothing for a month, they say my gun is "almost done" and I'll have it in two weeks. This bullshit story has happened to me three times now.

 

What irks me most is that they sell newly built guns on gunbroker and elsewhere, when all the existing customers never get served after years of paying upfront.

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ETAC is the most dishonest outfit I have ever dealt with.

 

They've had my money ($1050) and Saiga 12 + all the parts for over two years now (since March 2008).

 

I've requested a refund and return of my gun several times. They say sure, no problem. Then I call back after hearing/getting nothing for a month, they say my gun is "almost done" and I'll have it in two weeks. This bullshit story has happened to me three times now.

 

What irks me most is that they sell newly built guns on gunbroker and elsewhere, when all the existing customers never get served after years of paying upfront.

 

I just called E-Tac (808) 678-3822. The answering message I got was, "Memory is full". They are scammers. Check my other posts.

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I usually don't post in threads regarding another business member.....well, actually I don't post much at all here anymore, but let me tell you guys something about business in general since we're on the topic.

 

In your mind, you're probably thinking that if you pre-pay up front, that you will get preferential treatment compared to someone that did not pre-pay. That thinking, sadly, is wrong. Taking money up front on a long lead time item is sure death to your business. When you get low on cash, there is really no way to catch up other than to keep digging the hole deeper and taking in more money on things you can sell "today". As a consumer, you need to be very careful when dealing with someone using this business model. There is ABSOLUTELY NO INCENTIVE for the business to work on your stuff when they are low on cash. Working on your stuff just burns resources, burns more cash, and brings in ZERO money. Once a business is in this position, working on your stuff would put the operation under immediately. So....to keep the doors open, the only recourse is to only work on things that return cash in a very short period of time.....and that's NOT your pre-paid gun.

 

This is not directed at E-tac in any way,(I have no idea what their situation is) but many businesses compound the problem by late-paying their bills to their suppliers. This makes the situation even worse. To get squared up with your short term debt, you need a bunch of cash which you can't get because you took money up front years ago. Eventually, the whole deal implodes when your suppliers quit suppling to you. Remember, no matter how vertically integrated your manufacturing business may be, unless you are are in the iron ore mining business, everything you start with, is a "buy" item.

 

When you couple late paying bills and taking in revenue early, it is nearly impossible to tell if you really have any money or not. If you don't know....well, you probably don't have any. Pay the bills as soon as they come in. Take customer's money as close as possible to you delivering the product. Keep your inventory low and quote lead times that you can actually hit. That business model will actually work.

 

Every business has ups and downs with cash flow, so if you have been paying your bills on the day they arrive, and now you find yourself low on cash, you can simply use the standard net 30 payment terms to give yourself a little breathing room as cash spools back up. If you have been paying late, you're just screwed at that point.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

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I'm a self employed business owner myself and I totally understand your point.

 

From my perspective, two years ago when I sent the gun and money in, ETAC had glowing reviews and had promised 6-8 week turnaround times. They presented me with no real choice for payment other than upfront when I sent the gun in.

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  • 10 months later...

I was thinking about saiga smiths i will never do business with etac go guns or whatever they call themselves no, its just drama with them im a grown up and have grown ass man business to do i dont need drama.

Your statement is damned ironic, considering your choice of an avatar and your grammar/punctuation 'challenges.'

:rolleyes:

Edited by Gary
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  • 1 month later...

Still no gun back from ETAC! 38 months and counting....

 

 

I thought I was waiting a long time at 21 months and still waiting. GREAT!!!! Guess it's time to file a complaint with the State of Hawaii Office of Consumer Protection

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Still no gun back from ETAC! 38 months and counting....

 

 

I thought I was waiting a long time at 21 months and still waiting. GREAT!!!! Guess it's time to file a complaint with the State of Hawaii Office of Consumer Protection

 

Same here, 38 months. Let us know how that goes, stilts. Perhaps we could all do the same.

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Still no gun back from ETAC! 38 months and counting....

 

 

I thought I was waiting a long time at 21 months and still waiting. GREAT!!!! Guess it's time to file a complaint with the State of Hawaii Office of Consumer Protection

 

Same here, 38 months. Let us know how that goes, stilts. Perhaps we could all do the same.

 

Here's the link to their website to file a complaint

 

http://hawaii.gov/dcca/ocp/consumer_complaint

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I usually don't post in threads regarding another business member.....well, actually I don't post much at all here anymore, but let me tell you guys something about business in general since we're on the topic.

 

In your mind, you're probably thinking that if you pre-pay up front, that you will get preferential treatment compared to someone that did not pre-pay. That thinking, sadly, is wrong. Taking money up front on a long lead time item is sure death to your business. When you get low on cash, there is really no way to catch up other than to keep digging the hole deeper and taking in more money on things you can sell "today". As a consumer, you need to be very careful when dealing with someone using this business model. There is ABSOLUTELY NO INCENTIVE for the business to work on your stuff when they are low on cash. Working on your stuff just burns resources, burns more cash, and brings in ZERO money. Once a business is in this position, working on your stuff would put the operation under immediately. So....to keep the doors open, the only recourse is to only work on things that return cash in a very short period of time.....and that's NOT your pre-paid gun.

 

This is not directed at E-tac in any way,(I have no idea what their situation is) but many businesses compound the problem by late-paying their bills to their suppliers. This makes the situation even worse. To get squared up with your short term debt, you need a bunch of cash which you can't get because you took money up front years ago. Eventually, the whole deal implodes when your suppliers quit suppling to you. Remember, no matter how vertically integrated your manufacturing business may be, unless you are are in the iron ore mining business, everything you start with, is a "buy" item.

 

When you couple late paying bills and taking in revenue early, it is nearly impossible to tell if you really have any money or not. If you don't know....well, you probably don't have any. Pay the bills as soon as they come in. Take customer's money as close as possible to you delivering the product. Keep your inventory low and quote lead times that you can actually hit. That business model will actually work.

 

Every business has ups and downs with cash flow, so if you have been paying your bills on the day they arrive, and now you find yourself low on cash, you can simply use the standard net 30 payment terms to give yourself a little breathing room as cash spools back up. If you have been paying late, you're just screwed at that point.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix

 

 

It's nice to see somebody talking sense without emotion. Good advice, sounds like the words of a sucessful businessman. I know most people don't want to simply take customers money and offer nothing in return, but it offend ends up that way. Whats worse is companies that just don't give a shit, once they get your money.

I've not had any dealings with any of the individuals mentioned in this thread, but reading it has definately ruled out the possiblity of me ever doing it with a few.

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