I just caught a glimpse of Hussein's plans

[Azkamidaka 26]

That prick. Hopefully it wont get passed but I hoped BHO wouldn't win either .

 

That being said, I have little time left to act. BHO gets inaugurated 1/20/09....It is 11/25/08. Among the list of mods for my s12, the one that has probably been untouched the longest is to sbs to 10 inches.

 

I was looking into ordering all the ATF paperwork today and I think I can squeeze a ten inch outta my gun before that fool and all of his cronies take command.

 

The question: What is FASTER? To send it to a qualified gunsmith through a licensed dealer, or to chop the bbl off myself (which im fairly confident about doing) after I received my approved form 1 back from the ATF?

 

I don't really wanna feel out my CLEO, but ive got no choice. I live in a small town in GA and I don't believe im in the "Good ol' Boys club." Maybe I can convince him that Im on the level though. I just remember everybody telling horror stories about trying to get a CLEO to sign off and being outright refused illegally, with which had to be settled by suing the CLEO HIMSELF!

 

Huh, I suppose either way if I had approved paperwork in hand before 1/20/09 I wouldn't have to worry about what was faster would I? How long do approved and returned Form 1's give you to make the changes to your weapon?

 

Oh also, I read that I needed ATF FD-258 fingerprint cards, but on the ATF form ordering website the only fingerprint cards they have are "FBI FD-258FA - FFL Application ORI GAATF0100," "FBI FD-258EX - Explosives Applications ORI WVATF0900," and "FBI FD-258LE - NFA, Imports ORI WVATF0800." Im pretty damn sure I need two of the first one.

 

Am i fucked? lol.......no really......

Edited November 25, 2008 by Azkamidaka

[Wakko 10]

Why deal with the CLEO when you can use a trust? Eliminates finger print cards too. There's nothing prohibiting you having a long barrel on an SBS, so I would say get the tax stamp and then convert it at your leisure. Remember that cutting the barrel isn't the whole process, you're going to need to open up the gas ports, too. Someone with more knowledge in these areas will chime in, I'm sure.

[BobAsh 582]

Personally, (and this is just my subjective opinion) I think that Form 1 or 4 is safer than a trust or corporation. If, in the future, NFA ownership is abolished the guns that are owned by individuals (again, this is my opinion) would be harder to confiscate.

 

I've never done form 1. But I just got 2 form 4's back last week that I sent to ATF on 24 Sept...less than 2 months round trip!

 

Don't be afraid of the CLEO, just fill it out and go there.

[Azkamidaka 26]

...There's nothing prohibiting you having a long barrel on an SBS, so I would say get the tax stamp and then convert it at your leisure. Remember that cutting the barrel isn't the whole process, you're going to need to open up the gas ports, too. ...

 

So I can sit on a 19 inch s12, acquire the tax stamp and convert it whenever I feel like it? I don't have to complete the manufacture within a set time frame? That would rock, because I am aware that I would need to have my three ports widened slightly or a forth port would have to be drilled, and I don't have the know how to press off a gas block yet but I think Cobra can do it, I'd ask him if I wanted to do it myself. Honestly though I want so many other things done that I DONT feel confident about doing that i'll probably send it to Jammer or somebody with all the parts I want.

 

 

Personally, (and this is just my subjective opinion) I think that Form 1 or 4 is safer than a trust or corporation. If, in the future, NFA ownership is abolished the guns that are owned by individuals (again, this is my opinion) would be harder to confiscate.

 

I've never done form 1. But I just got 2 form 4's back last week that I sent to ATF on 24 Sept...less than 2 months round trip!

 

Don't be afraid of the CLEO, just fill it out and go there.

 

MY MAN! BobAsh!

 

So I would use a form 1 if I were going to attempt to modify the gun myself, and I would use a Form 4 to be authorized to pick up the SBS at a gunshop where the shop owner was qualified to transfer SB shotguns to the owner after the modifications have been completed?

 

How much should I expect to give the gunshop owner for the transfer fee for his share of the "work?"

 

Damn time to go to work. Ill check back later tonight guys, I appreciate the guidance.

[BobAsh 582]

So I would use a form 1 if I were going to attempt to modify the gun myself, and I would use a Form 4 to be authorized to pick up the SBS at a gunshop where the shop owner was qualified to transfer SB shotguns to the owner after the modifications have been completed?

 

Correct. If you want to make an SBS, submit a form 1. If you are having your gun made into an SBS, it's form 4.

 

How much should I expect to give the gunshop owner for the transfer fee for his share of the "work?"

 

I'm not sure what you are asking here, but a "gunshop owner" probably won't be able to do it. You need a class 2 NFA manufacturer.

 

Skim over this: NFA FAQ

 

Also, I want to mention that 10" is a little too short for gas port mods, and moving the gas block involves a lot more than pressing it on and off.

[mikein 0]

So I would use a form 1 if I were going to attempt to modify the gun myself, and I would use a Form 4 to be authorized to pick up the SBS at a gunshop where the shop owner was qualified to transfer SB shotguns to the owner after the modifications have been completed?

 

Correct. If you want to make an SBS, submit a form 1. If you are having your gun made into an SBS, it's form 4.

 

How much should I expect to give the gunshop owner for the transfer fee for his share of the "work?"

 

I'm not sure what you are asking here, but a "gunshop owner" probably won't be able to do it. You need a class 2 NFA manufacturer.

 

Skim over this: NFA FAQ

 

Also, I want to mention that 10" is a little too short for gas port mods, and moving the gas block involves a lot more than pressing it on and off.

 

Another question, somewhat off topic: How long to FFL dealers keep copies of the 4473's? How far back can Nobama's Gang look in a dealer's record?

 

Mike

[BobAsh 582]

There's no real traceablity there, since you could have sold/destroyed/sunk it since your transfer.

[mikein 0]

There's no real traceablity there, since you could have sold/destroyed/sunk it since your transfer.

 

Thanks, Bob! All mine have been sold, destroyed and/or were lost when my boat went down a couple of weeks ago. I just wondered what the statute of limitations was for dealer retention of the 4473's. Seems like the dealers would be a really good place for the gun banners to begin their search.

 

Mike

[BobAsh 582]

For most states, it's the only record there is. I don't believe they can ever be destroyed, but I don't know; maybe some of the dealers can chime in.

 

LOL I would never suggest that you perjure yourself, just making a point.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

When an FFL ceases to be an FFL he must turn over all his records to the ATF. If he remains an FFL he must retain them until ceases to be an FFL.

 

1911

[getitat 609]

Hello, Bob

So, if an "anonymous future S17" owner wanted to, could they set the registration wheels into motion as soon as the firearm was purchased and the serial number was recorded?

Would it be faster for a future customer to have their own NIB S12 (with number in hand) or go through Tromix, particularly with the tax stamp process?

 

Thanks for your expertise....

 

guido2 in Houston

[ML Roak 0]

4473s must be retained for 20 years, or until the FFL is surrendered/not renewed, whichever comes first.

I'm letting my FFL lapse the first part of next year, I want no part of the OBATFE.

[BobAsh 582]

So, if an "anonymous future S17" owner wanted to, could they set the registration wheels into motion as soon as the firearm was purchased and the serial number was recorded?

Would it be faster for a future customer to have their own NIB S12 (with number in hand) or go through Tromix, particularly with the tax stamp process?

 

Guido,

 

It's always a good thing to have your own Saiga. Tony has some, but as the saying goes "quantities are limited". You may recall earlier this year when the supply dried up, guys that had a gun got bumped up in the list.

 

Your gun will have to be received by Tromix for you to fill out the form 4, since his info/signature has to go on it.