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hawkin

Saiga 12 conversion questions. ACE FOLDER INSTALLATION TUTORIAL

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Ok, I'm ordering the parts for my Saiga 12 conversion to a sidefolder.. I plan on using the Tromix DIY trigger guard. Tapco G2 single hook trigger group, Tapco AK SAW grip and a ACE 8.5" skeleton stock with folding mech and internal receiver block..

 

My question is.. Can I use the ACE Internal Receiver Block with the Tromix DIY trigger guard or is the hole hackjob going to have to be done to get this complete. I don't like the look of the external receiver block.. I would love to use a Tromix stock but I guess you have to cut the rear of the receiver at a slight angle and weld the receiver back plate on. No welding skills here

 

So all the DIYers.. Please chime in! Anything I'm missing parts wise??

Edited by hawkin

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Ok, I'm ordering the parts for my Saiga 12 conversion to a sidefolder.. I plan on using the Tromix DIY trigger guard. Tapco G2 single hook trigger group, Tapco AK SAW grip and a ACE 8.5" skeleton stock with folding mech and internal receiver block..

 

My question is.. Can I use the ACE Internal Receiver Block with the Tromix DIY trigger guard or is the hole hackjob going to have to be done to get this complete. I don't like the look of the external receiver block.. I would love to use a Tromix stock but I guess you have to cut the rear of the receiver at a slight angle and weld the receiver back plate on. No welding skills here

 

So all the DIYers.. Please chime in! Anything I'm missing parts wise??

 

 

Im listening in for the answers too. I bought the same stuff except i got the tromix stock. My whole gun is apart and waiting for parts.

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My question is.. Can I use the ACE Internal Receiver Block with the Tromix DIY trigger guard...

Yes you can. Lots of guys do. You'll have to clearance the internal block for the trigger guard screws, most guys do it with a Dremel.

 

...I guess you have to cut the rear of the receiver at a slight angle and weld the receiver back plate on.

 

The receiver angle is something that Tony does (and has been kind enough to share) to make the stock angle work better. It's one of the little touches that makes a Tromix conversion.

 

The Tromix stock is square from the mounting flange to the comb, just like the Ace stock, or any other folder that I've seen. You don't have to adjust the angle to mount any of them, but it makes for a better installation.

 

When the plate is welded on (and ground down) it just looks like a steel box at the back.

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Ok, I'm ordering the parts for my Saiga 12 conversion to a sidefolder.. I plan on using the Tromix DIY trigger guard. Tapco G2 single hook trigger group, Tapco AK SAW grip and a ACE 8.5" skeleton stock with folding mech and internal receiver block..

 

My question is.. Can I use the ACE Internal Receiver Block with the Tromix DIY trigger guard or is the hole hackjob going to have to be done to get this complete. I don't like the look of the external receiver block.. I would love to use a Tromix stock but I guess you have to cut the rear of the receiver at a slight angle and weld the receiver back plate on. No welding skills here

 

So all the DIYers.. Please chime in! Anything I'm missing parts wise??

 

The Ace receiver block adapter requires some modification to fit in the Saiga 12. This is what I do for a cool install. Cut rear stock tang and refinish bare metal. You will need to trim the front tabs lower not shorter on the block to clear the S12 rear trunion. The block will not slide in and you will see what I mean when you get the tang off. Then you need to make a recess on the bottom of the block to slide over the small screw and washer that protrudes from the DIYS trigger guard, install block with the supplied nut and bolt. Drill (no. 21 drill bit I think) the block at the old trigger pin axis holes and remove block. Tap the holes for 10X32 3/8" screws. I then refinish the block with flat black Alumi Hyde 2 from Brownell's (thats optional). Here is an exterior photo of the end result. It sounds more dificult than it realy is. The tap drill bit and screws should cost under 12 bucks all together. You also need a dremel, tap holder and at least a hack saw. I will double check the drill size but it will say on the package of the tap what drill bit to use. I will be making one of these conversions tomorrow and I will take some photos of the modified block before I install it and post it it for you. I hope this helps. post-12530-1227937730_thumb.jpg

post-12530-1227937817_thumb.jpg

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Im listening in for the answers too. I bought the same stuff except i got the tromix stock. My whole gun is apart and waiting for parts.! Viper5243

 

 

 

 

The Tromix stocks work great with the Ace components. I'll have pics up later today.

post-12530-1227986168_thumb.jpg

 

post-12530-1227986377_thumb.jpg

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post-12530-1228017128_thumb.jpg

post-12530-1228017144_thumb.jpgTorn apart and ready to cut tang.

 

 

 

post-12530-1228017165_thumb.jpg

post-12530-1228017247_thumb.jpg

post-12530-1228017271_thumb.jpgTang cut and sanded flush

 

 

 

post-12530-1228017314_thumb.jpg Block hits front ends of rear trunion.

 

 

 

post-12530-1228017336_thumb.jpg

post-12530-1228017373_thumb.jpg Block tabs cut with band saw.

 

 

post-12530-1228017395_thumb.jpg

post-12530-1228017415_thumb.jpg Nut and bolt installed snug to check fit. Remove and install DIYS trigger guard. See next reply.

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post-12530-1228018006_thumb.jpg

post-12530-1228018037_thumb.jpg DIYS guard installed.

 

 

post-12530-1228018046_thumb.jpgBlock hit rear screw and washer.

 

 

post-12530-1228018056_thumb.jpgThis is the worst releif cut I have ever made but it will work. Used drill press to start a pilot hole then used a 15/32 bit to

allow washer enough clearance. Finished with dremel. Looks like shit :angry:

post-12530-1228018067_thumb.jpg

post-12530-1228018077_thumb.jpgNow block fits nice in rear of recever. Install nut and bolt snug.

 

 

post-12530-1228018102_thumb.jpg

post-12530-1228018123_thumb.jpgI don't drill out the axis pins, I use a punch then. I drill them with an 11/64 drill bit for a rivet on non Ace conversions. I recamend not drilling the axis holes yet for this conversion. That way they will be centerd better as the holes will work as a guide. Drill through the front axis holes with no. 21 bit. On the rear axis holes I just run the bit in for a pilot then remove the block to finish drilling.

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post-12530-1228018252_thumb.jpg Ok block removed. I use tape to mark the deapth of the drill bit (no. 21) for the deapth of the threads of the screw. I use a drill press so be carefull. The rear holes are very close to the front edge of the block. You want to avoid drilling at an angle and breaking through the front side if the block. Plus you want the screws to sit flush with the receiver.

 

 

 

post-12530-1228018261_thumb.jpg

Now get some thread cutting oil and use a 10X32 tap. Start with the front holes if you have never tapped before, so you get the feel of the process. Try and start square as you can and tap with slow back and forth turn. Only turn the tap a little bit then back it off, like an 16th of a turn or less. Use the cutting oil and don't force the tap.

post-12530-1228018271_thumb.jpg On the rear holes you need to be extra careful not to force the tap when it bottoms out. Remember you only drilled the deapth of the threads. I also mod the tap a little shorter so I can get the threads in deaper before it bottoms out. You can buy 2 taps and start with the unmodified one, then once the threads are well started switch to the slightly shortend tap. I should post a pic to show you the difference in the 2 taps I use.

 

post-12530-1228018280_thumb.jpgCan you tell I have done this before and plan to do it agian? 10X32 3/8" screws.

post-12530-1228018288_thumb.jpg Now that you are a master at tapping aluminium install the block with the nut and bolt but just make it snug. Look and see how well the holes line up and check the alignment of the block to the receiver. I drill the receiver after I tap the block. I step up with a 7/32 bit you can use a smaller but but you need to have enough clearance for the screw. Loosen the nut and bolt and start your 4 screws. Just snug them up and use some lock tight when you are ready to finish your conversion. I use red lock tight on the trigger guard screws and on all 5 screws on the block. Remember it's aluminium and you don't want to strip the threads. If your rear screws don't meet flush with the receiver do not over tighten or drill deaper to retap, you will destroy the threads you just made. Just shorten the screw with a file or a grinder and be very careful not to cross thread it when reinstalling. Or get some shorter screws.

post-12530-1228018297_thumb.jpg

post-12530-1228018307_thumb.jpg

 

I have yet to refinsh the block and the bottom of the receiver. I skipped this part to get this posted. I use Aluma Hyde 2 for the bare metal. I have done a few conversions like this for customers and it works great. If anyone wants to comment or has better ideas please feel free to post. If anyone has any other questons let me know.

Thanks

C.G.A. :beer::smoke:

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Ripper,

 

Thanks a lot for posting this! Great info!

 

ETA:

The back plate that Tromix makes (sold by MAA) is a weld-in proposition that does away with the Ace block that is pictured here, right?

Edited by rockman96

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Ripper,

 

Thanks a lot for posting this! Great info!

 

ETA:

The back plate that Tromix makes (sold by MAA) is a weld-in proposition that does away with the Ace block that is pictured here, right?

 

Hey thanks, it was fun to do this.

Yes that's correct you have the weld option or the block option. I am not set up for welding and complete refinishing. I came up with this idea so I could make the conversions with the Ace folders for my customers. For me and my business C.G.A. it's actualy less expensive than buying a welder, sand blast cabinet and setting up a paint booth. However that would be nice to have. Maybe in the futrue.:angel: When I get this S12 finished I will post it for sale.

Happy Holidays and God Bless

Russell

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Sweet deal.

 

In the pics of the rear tang cut, did u also cut/grind the receiver? It looks shiny like it was ground.

 

I have no idea when my parts are supposed to show. MAA site says they have units in stock but also says back ordered so IDK. What i have done so far is rip everything off, and cut and level the tang. Im going to try and go a different way with the ACE. Instead of tapping it i was just going to drill out 3/16 holes and use the Hillman Nylon Hole Plugs. I figure it will save time and money not having to buy the tap. I also like the look of the plugs vs the screws. IMHO

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Sweet deal.

 

In the pics of the rear tang cut, did u also cut/grind the receiver? It looks shiny like it was ground.

 

I have no idea when my parts are supposed to show. MAA site says they have units in stock but also says back ordered so IDK. What i have done so far is rip everything off, and cut and level the tang. Im going to try and go a different way with the ACE. Instead of tapping it i was just going to drill out 3/16 holes and use the Hillman Nylon Hole Plugs. I figure it will save time and money not having to buy the tap. I also like the look of the plugs vs the screws. IMHO

 

The rear of the receiver just touched the sander in a couple spots. The photo is bright so it makes the edges look shinny. The angle of the receiver is unchanged.

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Sweet deal.

 

 

Instead of tapping it i was just going to drill out 3/16 holes and use the Hillman Nylon Hole Plugs. I figure it will save time and money not having to buy the tap. I also like the look of the plugs vs the screws. IMHO

 

If you use nylon hole plugs the only thing that is holding your block and stock in place is the 1 supplied nut and bolt at the top of the rear trunnion. This block is designed for AK's and to be held down at the front by the pistol grip nut.

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Sweet deal.

 

 

Instead of tapping it i was just going to drill out 3/16 holes and use the Hillman Nylon Hole Plugs. I figure it will save time and money not having to buy the tap. I also like the look of the plugs vs the screws. IMHO

 

If you use nylon hole plugs the only thing that is holding your block and stock in place is the 1 supplied nut and bolt at the top of the rear trunnion. This block is designed for AK's and to be held down at the front by the pistol grip nut.

 

I thought i read a thread some time ago that tony chimed in on andhe said that it was fine because of downward force or something to that effect. I might have read it all wrong though

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Sweet deal.

 

 

Instead of tapping it i was just going to drill out 3/16 holes and use the Hillman Nylon Hole Plugs. I figure it will save time and money not having to buy the tap. I also like the look of the plugs vs the screws. IMHO

 

If you use nylon hole plugs the only thing that is holding your block and stock in place is the 1 supplied nut and bolt at the top of the rear trunnion. This block is designed for AK's and to be held down at the front by the pistol grip nut.

 

I thought i read a thread some time ago that tony chimed in on andhe said that it was fine because of downward force or something to that effect. I might have read it all wrong though

 

It may work just fine. I havn't tryed it so I don't know. I will assemble one like that tomorrow and see how it holds up.

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Sweet deal.

 

 

Instead of tapping it i was just going to drill out 3/16 holes and use the Hillman Nylon Hole Plugs. I figure it will save time and money not having to buy the tap. I also like the look of the plugs vs the screws. IMHO

 

If you use nylon hole plugs the only thing that is holding your block and stock in place is the 1 supplied nut and bolt at the top of the rear trunnion. This block is designed for AK's and to be held down at the front by the pistol grip nut.

 

I thought i read a thread some time ago that tony chimed in on andhe said that it was fine because of downward force or something to that effect. I might have read it all wrong though

 

It may work just fine. I havn't tryed it so I don't know. I will assemble one like that tomorrow and see how it holds up.

 

 

That would be great! Damn now you got me thinking about it and i might just end up at lowers buying a tap.

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Good job Russ! Thanks for sharing. When I do one with an Ace block I use the hole plugs as well. You have to drill the block larger than 3/16" though or the plugs can't expand on the inside and hold themselves in place. I start the hole at 1/8", then remove the block and enlarge them to about 3/8", trying not to let them go all the way through the block.

But like you said, this is only good for a standard PG conversion using the PG bushing.

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Good job Russ! Thanks for sharing. When I do one with an Ace block I use the hole plugs as well. You have to drill the block larger than 3/16" though or the plugs can't expand on the inside and hold themselves in place. I start the hole at 1/8", then remove the block and enlarge them to about 3/8", trying not to let them go all the way through the block.

But like you said, this is only good for a standard PG conversion using the PG bushing.

Thanks Cobra

I had fun putting this step by step procedure together. I hope that a lot of people find this usefully. I posted a link to this thread on my CGA forum so it will be easier to direct people to it. I haven't had a chance today to test the block using just the nut and bolt. But I really think the extra work and the minimal price for the screws, drill bit, tap holder, and taps is worth it. That block is in there solid. :big_smile:

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Sweet deal.

 

 

Instead of tapping it i was just going to drill out 3/16 holes and use the Hillman Nylon Hole Plugs. I figure it will save time and money not having to buy the tap. I also like the look of the plugs vs the screws. IMHO

 

If you use nylon hole plugs the only thing that is holding your block and stock in place is the 1 supplied nut and bolt at the top of the rear trunnion. This block is designed for AK's and to be held down at the front by the pistol grip nut.

 

I thought i read a thread some time ago that tony chimed in on andhe said that it was fine because of downward force or something to that effect. I might have read it all wrong though

 

It may work just fine. I havn't tryed it so I don't know. I will assemble one like that tomorrow and see how it holds up.

 

 

That would be great! Damn now you got me thinking about it and i might just end up at lowers buying a tap.

 

OK so I set up a Saiga with the ACE receiver block held in with the supplied nut and bolt only. I used an ACE folding mech and a 9 1/2 inch stock. It seems very solid and there is no movement up or down or side to side. I did not do any kind of drop testing or pressure testing. Aluminum is strong but it does not bend or give in any way. If the weapon was dropped hard repeatedly or was used to butt stroke something, who knows :unsure: . Also if the bolt came loose the stock will just slide out. I think it would work ok :unsure: under normal circumstances and I would recommend lock tight.

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Great tutorial ripper, it really should be stickied.

 

Thanks Bob

I put a link to this thread on my business site. That way It can be referenced quickly.

-Russell

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Thanks for the tutorial ripper! Just waiting for my parts to come in and then I'll begin the work!

No problem

If you have any questions just let me know.

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Would drilling a hole down through the receiver block and using a longer screw work instead of making the relief cut that clears the rear screw and washer? Will the screw head and washer come in contact with any internal mechanisms on top of the receiver block?

 

Thanks

ERG80

Edited by ERG80

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