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Range Report: A 40yr old wuss and his Saiga train at the Public Safety

Shannon McNair

By Shannon McNair,
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Shannon McNair

Shannon McNair 1

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Range Report: A 40yr old wuss and his Saiga train at the Public Safety Range

 

Ok, to start, let me give you a quick bio:

 

I'm 40 and very soft. For the past few months I've been in this forum asking what probably seem like very noob questions, but mostly just lurking. The rigors of my job are the same as most software engineers (as I am): my job keeps me in front of a keyboard all day. Occasionally I dust off some piece of fine literature that I read when I was an English Lit major at a very nice private University that I graduated from over a decade ago. No, I don't take bubble baths and burn scented candles while listening to Kenny G, but if you punch me in the arm, tears are going to well up in my eyes before I run away. I'm just that big of a wuss :bag:

 

I'm not a gun nut going waaaaay back as many of my Saiga brethren seem to be. I'm actually pretty new to firearms, and I own a grand total of 3: A Ruger 10/22 that I bought 2 yrs ago, a Saiga-12 and Kel-Tek P3AT, both of which I bought in the past few months. I have very little shooting experience and would rate myself a novice/beginner.

 

I mention all of this because I know there's been a lot of people rushing in to buy BBG's these days, and many of them not traditional gun owners. Although I bought my boom stick before the stampede, I am probably not a traditional Saiga owner. If you are a non-traditional gun owner or Evil Black Gun owner, this review is for you in particular.

 

My Saiga was converted by my gunsmith Jessee down in Albany, OR, who does a great job for crazy good prices. That's a deserved plug for Jesse who does it right or, when things go astray, makes it right. He put on an Ace folder, moved the trigger group forward, and installed a plain AK plastic grip.

 

We've got several ranges in the Portland, OR area. The one I've attached myself to the most is the Clackamas Public Safety Center. In my view, this is an amazing resource: 22,300 sq foot facility that is owned by the county and serves both the public and law enforcement. This very partial bio of my instructor, Stu Nakamura, gives you an idea of the excellent quality of trainer we had. Look at the last paragraph on the page for the most complete bio.

 

So I decided to sign up for the Defensive Shotgun Basics class. I should train if I can, yes? Good gun citizenship, can't get enough training, etc. So, yesterday I took the class, and I'd like to offer a range report from the point of view of someone you really would never mistake for a gung-ho gun totin' Super-Bubba. My health isn't especially good either since I suffer from a stomach complaint, am badly out of shape, and overweight.

 

The class I took was 8 hours long, and actually ran overtime. From 8-noon was class time, and from 1pm or so to about 6:30 was shooting on the indoor range while practicing gun safety habits. I ran probably 20+ shotgun shells that were either slugs, 00 or #4, and about 50+ bird shot shells. The class was oriented to pump action shotguns which made a lot of the class different for me, and kind of difficult to adjust to. Everyone had a Mossberg 50x or Remmington 870, so when most in the class were reloading, I was either shooting or waiting to shoot. But I muddled through kind of making up what I needed to do as we went.

 

This is the first shotgun I've ever fired.

 

So how did it go?

 

Here's the shocker for me: although I'm sore today, I'm mostly sore from the rigors of keeping the shotgun up at a ready position and NOT so much from shooting the shotgun. The recoil was mitigated by 2 factors. First, I put an Ace folding stock with a 1" pad on it when I converted. Second, I kept the toe of the stock as close to my breastbone as I could while holding a cheek weld. I'm only slightly sore from the recoil, and as far as I can tell, it's only because when going from a ready position to a firing position, I'd place the heel of the stock a little closer to the shoulder. But I'm not bruised and there are no tears in my eyes ;-)

 

This gun shoots very well and I was able to keep a pattern with 00 or slugs at the extreme end of the range (and I don't even know how far that was). In fact, this big ol' black gun is a lot lot lot more fun to shoot than my little Kel-Tek P3AT. The latter hurts my hand. The Saiga blows things up and doesn't hurt at all when held properly and a 1" pad on the stock.

 

The day ended with us going through a very nice simulator that allowed us to use a sim-shotgun w/laser against a computer-driven, larger projection screen meant to simulate home invasion situations.

 

Final verdict: if a big wuss like me can shoot this gun and have this much fun, anyone can. I advise the shotgun novice to seek training on how to properly handle the gun, wear hearing and eye protection, and practice. And make absolutely certain to have fun while you do. I can't wait to go back out again. I highly recommend the Public Training Center and the Saiga 12, even for a big wuss like me.

 

Oh, yeah. On the simulator, I was killed once for not taking the damned safety off the gun (wouldn't have happened with my Saiga. Safety is off when you charge the handle. In another two simulations, one BG tossed his weapon, and another suffered the consequences of going for his. :victory:

Here are 2 things I feel would improve the Saiga for self defense:

 

1. LRBHO for finger reloads when necessary. When Cobra?!?! WHEN??? (Just kidding. Take your time and do it right.)

2. A magwell and mag release near the trigger. It's a pain in the ass to rock those magazines back and forth to get them in and would be a real bitch in the dark. With a BG down the hallway, every moment there are no shells in the gun, I've lost my Boom Stick blast-o-matic and have instead a rusty boat anchor while the clock is tick-tick-ticking fast and loud.

 

So that's all. Thanks everyone.

 

Molten Tuna

Edited by Molten Tuna
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TR Young

TR Young 175

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That was a good report! And let me tell you this; it takes ALL kinds of people in this world and the fact that you know who you are is a huge thing. There are so many people who pretend to be something that they are not and they are the ones who usually fail to learn. They THINK they know it all and refuse to admit that they don't. You, on the other hand, came out of the box saying, "I am who I am, and I want to learn". That is to be commended.

 

I am glad to hear how much you enjoyed the range time and that it was a positive experience for you. I hope you go back many times and enjoy it as much if not more every time you go. I haven't yet taken a tactical SG defense class, but have been looking around for some. I have taken a couple of great pistol classes and I know that there are a few things that I can take from those classes and apply them to SG handling, but they are mostly movement techniques. I am looking forward to taking the classes and hope I have just as good a time as you did!

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Azrial

Azrial 1,091

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Welcome to the fraternity of people that take responsibility for their own safety. I enjoyed reading your post, sometimes I lose sight of how this can all be for a newcomer.

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Ballistician

Ballistician 1

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I'll be taking a defensive shotgun course early next year. I'm looking at the Firearms Academy of Seattle just north of you, I've heard pretty good things about them and their price is right. I'd love to go to InSights, but their courses are twice what most places are. I was curious what a school would say about the Saiga-12, so I thought I'd take the FN SLP.

 

Was there any point where the course was more geared to pump or mag-tube guns? A road trip south might not be a bad idea. How much was the course?

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Twinsen

Twinsen 86

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If you know how to fire a shotgun, firing several hundred rounds at a time shouldn't leave any sort of bruise or pain or anything like that. The best way I can explain it is to "add as much meat to the weight of the gun as possible". Put your meat behind it and keep it tight and nothing should ever come of it.

 

As for black rifles, I do not see the big deal. They handle better than older style weapons, but both shoot hot lead out the end. Neither is more dangerous, but one is more fun and easier to use.

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Shannon McNair

Shannon McNair 1

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Good gun citizenship
i like that...

 

how did the s12 go over? were there others?

 

Thanks everyone for the kind words. It was a good time.

 

No, I had the only Saiga-12 in the class, and of course everyone sort of came over and oggled it. For awhile it was a curiosity, until it came time to fire off 5 rounds as rapidly as we could. Actually, the instructor stopped the class before it was my turn and announced something like, "ok everyone, now, this is where the semi-autos are kind of different from the pump action. This will be a bit faster..."

 

So I fired off five as fast as I could...

 

...and, predictably, the gun rose and I went a little off balance. But if it weren't for the hearing protection, you would have heard 10 jaws hit the floor, including my own. Someone asked after class if I had a full auto because he couldn't believe that five rounds could come out of a shotgun that fast :lol:

 

I fully admit, however, I got pretty pissed off at the end of the class. I'm really not one to take things personally, but one guy came up to me and said, "yeah, it looks fun, but frankly I wouldn't trust my life with it. I've got an AR-15 that I use for home defense. Those magazines of yours are just too much trouble."

 

WOULDN'T TRUST HIS LIFE WITH A SEMI-AUTO WITH 10 ROUNDS IN THE MAGAZINE!!! :anger:

It made me feel like I represented the gun poorly because I was a newbie. However, I think though what happened here is I walked into the great AK vs. AR buzzsaw of controversy. I mean, it's true I had problems rocking the mags into the gun. Also, for some reason, the high cap 10rd AGP mag seemed to malfunction at one point so that the shells were slooooowly advancing up the magazine. However, this didn't always happen, so I'm not sure what the hell happened there. I didn't overload it, so I dunno. I suspect it was operator error. I'd like to hear though if others have had this happen to them. I seem to remember hearing about it somewhere.

 

Anyway, I WOULD trust my life with it. I had one FTE and one FTF (on account of the slow moving mag), but all I had to do was rack it and go.

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neubert500

neubert500 11

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Good gun citizenship
i like that...

 

how did the s12 go over? were there others?

 

Thanks everyone for the kind words. It was a good time.

 

No, I had the only Saiga-12 in the class, and of course everyone sort of came over and oggled it. For awhile it was a curiosity, until it came time to fire off 5 rounds as rapidly as we could. Actually, the instructor stopped the class before it was my turn and announced something like, "ok everyone, now, this is where the semi-autos are kind of different from the pump action. This will be a bit faster..."

 

So I fired off five as fast as I could...

 

...and, predictably, the gun rose and I went a little off balance. But if it weren't for the hearing protection, you would have heard 10 jaws hit the floor, including my own. Someone asked after class if I had a full auto because he couldn't believe that five rounds could come out of a shotgun that fast :lol:

 

I fully admit, however, I got pretty pissed off at the end of the class. I'm really not one to take things personally, but one guy came up to me and said, "yeah, it looks fun, but frankly I wouldn't trust my life with it. I've got an AR-15 that I use for home defense. Those magazines of yours are just too much trouble."

 

WOULDN'T TRUST HIS LIFE WITH A SEMI-AUTO WITH 10 ROUNDS IN THE MAGAZINE!!! :anger:

It made me feel like I represented the gun poorly because I was a newbie. However, I think though what happened here is I walked into the great AK vs. AR buzzsaw of controversy. I mean, it's true I had problems rocking the mags into the gun. Also, for some reason, the high cap 10rd AGP mag seemed to malfunction at one point so that the shells were slooooowly advancing up the magazine. However, this didn't always happen, so I'm not sure what the hell happened there. I didn't overload it, so I dunno. I suspect it was operator error. I'd like to hear though if others have had this happen to them. I seem to remember hearing about it somewhere.

 

Anyway, I WOULD trust my life with it. I had one FTE and one FTF (on account of the slow moving mag), but all I had to do was rack it and go.

Excellent post! Congrads on getting your training! I too had issues with my AGP 10rounders but I found that they didn't like the shells I was feeding them, changed to a different brand shell, and WHOO feeds as well as my AKs or Ars or Sigs or Glocks, well you get the idea.

Great post!

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waltham_41

waltham_41 52

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Nice range report.

 

If the rounds seem to be coming up the mag slowly, a little dry spray graphite may be the answer.

 

And Cobra has a mag catch extension that makes it super easy to release the mag by just taking your finger off of the trigger and pointing your finger at the mag.

 

As for the guy that said he would not defend his house with a S12, watch him, he is on crack or something.

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Threecard

Threecard 15

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....As for the guy that said he would not defend his house with a S12, watch him, he is on crack or something.

Nah.... I bet he was just pissed that Tuna had the coolest toy there and he had to make himself feel better. :cryss:

 

BINGO! I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.

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jerrytofdallas

jerrytofdallas 1

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Range Report: A 40yr old wuss and his Saiga train at the Public Safety Range

 

No, I don't take bubble baths and burn scented candles while listening to Kenny G,

I'm not a gun nut going waaaaay back

 

Great review and welcome! I am a gun nut going back 55 yrs and I do take bubble baths, burn scented candles and listen to Sade sing cool operator :smoke:

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  • 4 weeks later...
Blam

Blam 4

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That was a great post, and a great follow-up!

 

Good job.... I'm glad you liked it. I bet you got more out of it than you realize because it was a challenge. It's good to hear you was a little sore, that means you put effort into it. Nothing lets you know you trained hard and trained well more than waking up sore, and a bruise or two can be a cherry on the cake. Step up your shells next time to 3" 000 magnums. That will add a little more to your sense of accomplishment when you wake up the next day.

I hope you take the class again, and find other training classes. I'm sure that Stu Nakamura fellow can put you through a few different weapon tactics classes. Eventually you can be that crazy guy in the class that screams profanities at the targets when he shoots and growls at the people that "oogle" over his Saiga. :smoke:

By next year you will be giving out presents like boxes of shells, gun cleaning kits, packs of paper targets, Born to Kill T-Shirts and "Tactical Girls" Calenders at the office Christmas party. Promotions and privileged parking spots will follow.

 

Im kidding about that of course, but I am glad you got to train hard and wake up feeling that sense of accomplishment that only a job well done after demanding defensive weapon training can give. Keep it up and your collection will grow once you get "the fever".

 

Keep training, keep shooting and keep us apprised!

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