.223 M

[VladTepes 160]

A friend on another forum asked what it is VS a regular .223, and i didnt know so i figured id ask here..

[pogy 5]

Looks like it has a wooden thumbhole stock as opposed to the composite/plastic stock. Sweet!

Picture

Edited December 13, 2008 by pogy

[JK-47 33]

they are also calling this a saiga M :http://www.centerfiresystems.com/saiga223m-seriesblackstockpartsai-b.aspx

theres some debate as to wether that is actualy an s-308 pictured; though it lacks the bulged front trunion of a S-308.

[VladTepes 160]

they are also calling this a saiga M :http://www.centerfiresystems.com/saiga223m-seriesblackstockpartsai-b.aspx

theres some debate as to wether that is actualy an s-308 pictured; though it lacks the bulged front trunion of a S-308.

 

 

thats the one i found when i googled and could not tell what the difference is...

[cma g21 3]

they are also calling this a saiga M :http://www.centerfiresystems.com/saiga223m-seriesblackstockpartsai-b.aspx

theres some debate as to wether that is actualy an s-308 pictured; though it lacks the bulged front trunion of a S-308.

 

 

thats the one i found when i googled and could not tell what the difference is...

 

I ordered one (it'll be here Monday), so I'll soon find out.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

If my understanding is correct - these are a group of 60 rifles that RAAC received that had a little heavier stamped receiver and were constructed perhaps a little stouter than the regular one. These were intended to entice RAAC to import a little more expensive line from Izmash. They decided against it and so they sat there for awhile. There should be two consecutive serial numbers in the entire batch. If you want those, you might contact them before they break them up. More than I know.

 

1911

[Fett 0]

That is the rifle I just bought. 1911 is correct. According to Izmash, they are a little bit heavier duty. It has an M stamped on the receiver. Also, the wood thumbhole stock is really well done. the dealer I had mine delievered to couldn't believe how sweet it was. He said "I've never seen wood this nice come from Russia."

 

I guess everyone likes a nice woody! (I know I do!!)

 

Fett

Edited December 15, 2008 by Fett

[Fett 0]

By the way, here's mine!!

[dave43 0]

I have only seen the black synthetic one. Do these cost a premium since they are heavier duty?

[Fett 0]

I paid $430.00 for mine.(though I have seen them for $399, but not in stock) So yes, it was a bit more. However, buying a standard Saiga for $3??.00 then buying a wooden thumbhole stock and handgard I felt would justify the increase in price. I like the look and function of the thumbhole stock. Finding one right now I think may present a problem, and I would be willing to bet that when more do become available they will be even more.

 

Good luck if you get one. I love mine!

 

Fett

Edited December 16, 2008 by Fett

[dave43 0]

Isn't there one without wood?

[Fett 0]

I think so, but I have not seen any. This is right off the Izhmash site:

 

Versions of the butt design:

permanent hunting butt;

quick-detachable hunting butt. The butt is locked by means of the spring-loaded retainer. The length of the carbines without the butt is just over 800 mm;

skeleton wooden butt (with a thumbhole).

 

Additionally, some modifications may have the following butt designs:

permanent butt and pistol grip of the AK rifle type;

polymer-or metal-frame butt and pistol grip of the AK rifle type, folding to the left. The length of the rifle with the folded butt is reduced by 240 mm.

 

Versions of the fore end design:

hunting fore end;

fore end and gas-tube guard of the AK rifle type.

 

Versions of the front-sight base design:

with a shot taper flash suppresser;

with a long cylindrical flash suppresser;

without flash suppressor;

integral with gas cylinder.

 

Design features of some modifications and versions:

Saiga-M" - the modernized version of "Saiga" carbines having the following changes: the heavier receiver, elongated barrel (555 mm), bolt with three locking lugs;

"Saiga-M3" - "Saiga-M" version with the folding butt and pistol grip of the AK type;

"Saiga-MK" - "Saiga-M" version with the shortened barrel (415 mm) and interlocking not allowing to deliver fire with the butt folded;

"Saiga-5.6S" - "Saiga-5.6" version with the folding butt and pistol grip of the AK type.

[pogy 5]

I'm a bit confused and maybe I'm missing something very obvious but the Saiga M .223 that I saw a picture of had the trigger and a thumbhole stock in the standard configuration, that is, after the conversion that many of us have gone through. I thought that the Saigas were "sporterized" for import to avoid any "AK type" restrictions on importation. If they are indeed imported in this configuration, wouldn't you still need to replace foreign parts to legally use a hi-cap mag?

[Fett 0]

You know, I saw that too. If you look at the picture of mine above, the trigger is in the forward location. What I am doing is ordering the Tapco G2 trigger to get my US parts count right. I will then look at the two to see if there is a difference or not.

[quinci956 1]

Looks like a Russian Mak-90. The conversion to pistol grip would be very easy it appears. You would still have to install the US made parts but it would simply be a parts exchange. No drill, cutting, welding ect. I have not seen these before. I might see if I can still get one.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Perhaps I may assist?

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/saiga223m...kpartsai-b.aspx Saiga .223 M-Series Black Stock Part #SAI-B $329.99

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/saiga223m...artsai-b-1.aspx Saiga .223 M-Series Wooden Thumbhole Stock Part #SAI-D $399.99

 

They are both in stock and available as of now. My .223 are actually 5.56 and AR so good luck and have fun.

 

1911

[cma g21 3]

Isn't there one without wood?

 

With synthetic stock:

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/saiga223m...kpartsai-b.aspx

 

With wood stock:

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/saiga223m...artsai-b-1.aspx

[gtnichols 51]

I have one in a x39 caliber and I love it, they are sweet! the wood is perfect too,..

 

Supposedly they have heavier barrels too,.... $429 from gilberts NIB a few months ago, they said they went fast

Edited December 17, 2008 by Gas Giant

[Fett 0]

GG,

I got the last one from Gilberts. The woman told me they had two, but by the time she took my CC information, they only had the one left.

I would like to see a full picture of your gun too.

One of the things I like is that it is a little different. There's not a lot of them out there.

 

BTW, I ordered my tapco G2 today. I will let everyone know if it just "Drops in" or not.

[coyotewillie 0]

I gave my dealer all the info today, he's supposed to call them tomorrow and order one of the synthetic stock models. At $329+15%+sales tax, it's going to add up, but nobody else seems to have any. I don't know if I have to pay shipping too, but I still couldn't pass it up. I was wondering about the wood stocked ones tho, can't tell from the pics, but is the rear of the receiver square or slanted? The wood is slanted, but can't tell if it's just covering the receiver or not. How much more work will it be to convert a slanted receiver if in fact it is slanted? Greg

[gtnichols 51]

receiver is slanted, and the wood is slanted

there is also 308 versions of this I have seen

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

I gave my dealer all the info today, he's supposed to call them tomorrow and order one of the synthetic stock models. At $329+15%+sales tax, it's going to add up, but nobody else seems to have any. I don't know if I have to pay shipping too, but I still couldn't pass it up. I was wondering about the wood stocked ones tho, can't tell from the pics, but is the rear of the receiver square or slanted? The wood is slanted, but can't tell if it's just covering the receiver or not. How much more work will it be to convert a slanted receiver if in fact it is slanted? Greg

Much cheaper way to do it. Look on the internet and find an FFL near you. FAX or have him FAX his FFL to them and pay for it yourself. If out of state there is no sales tax, no 15% markup, and yes you will pay shipping. The FFL will charge you about $15 - $25 to transfer it. I use one right up the road.

 

1911

[quinci956 1]

GG,

I got the last one from Gilberts. The woman told me they had two, but by the time she took my CC information, they only had the one left.

I would like to see a full picture of your gun too.

One of the things I like is that it is a little different. There's not a lot of them out there.

 

BTW, I ordered my tapco G2 today. I will let everyone know if it just "Drops in" or not.

 

Which one did you order? The plastic stock versions (from the photos posted) has the same trigger set up as the regular Saiga.223 with the trigger moved to the rear. The wooden version shows the trigger moved forward behind the mag release. These are very similar to the Norinco Hunter except the Norinco also has the trigger set in the wrong place.

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Customizi...unter-t707.html

"Gas Giant" are these the 308 versions you are thinking of? I used to see them a lot but they seem to have become scarce in the last few years.

Edited December 17, 2008 by madmilo

[dave43 0]

GG,

I got the last one from Gilberts. The woman told me they had two, but by the time she took my CC information, they only had the one left.

I would like to see a full picture of your gun too.

One of the things I like is that it is a little different. There's not a lot of them out there.

 

BTW, I ordered my tapco G2 today. I will let everyone know if it just "Drops in" or not.

 

Which one did you order? The plastic stock versions (from the photos posted) has the same trigger set up as the regular Saiga.223 with the trigger moved to the rear. The wooden version shows the trigger moved forward behind the mag release. These are very similar to the Norinco Hunter except the Norinco also has the trigger set in the wrong place.

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Customizi...unter-t707.html

"Gas Giant" are these the 308 versions you are thinking of? I used to see them a lot but they seem to have become scarce in the last few years.

 

 

I just noticed this...Could you just take of the wooden stock, add on a tapco T6 stock and pistol grip, slip a Surefire 30 mag in and have a AK47 replica without doing the trigger group conversion?

[Fett 0]

GG,

I got the last one from Gilberts. The woman told me they had two, but by the time she took my CC information, they only had the one left.

I would like to see a full picture of your gun too.

One of the things I like is that it is a little different. There's not a lot of them out there.

 

BTW, I ordered my tapco G2 today. I will let everyone know if it just "Drops in" or not.

 

Which one did you order? The plastic stock versions (from the photos posted) has the same trigger set up as the regular Saiga.223 with the trigger moved to the rear. The wooden version shows the trigger moved forward behind the mag release. These are very similar to the Norinco Hunter except the Norinco also has the trigger set in the wrong place.

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Customizi...unter-t707.html

"Gas Giant" are these the 308 versions you are thinking of? I used to see them a lot but they seem to have become scarce in the last few years.

 

 

I just noticed this...Could you just take of the wooden stock, add on a tapco T6 stock and pistol grip, slip a Surefire 30 mag in and have a AK47 replica without doing the trigger group conversion?

 

I Ordered the one that is for the forward mounted trigger. Since mine is already forward mounted, I figured that's what I need. (We'll see!?)

 

As for removing the wooden stock and installing a pistol grip, I don't know if it would go on good. As you can tell from my picture above, the aft portion of the receiver is significantly "Slanted" on mine. I can't really tell if there is room for a pistol grip or not. When I get the trigger group, I'll take it apart a little more and see if I can get any more information.

[gtnichols 51]

It's just like the vepr,

and you can use these if you want

 

http://www.aceltdusa.com/VEPR.htm

 

there was another posting for a side folder that was pretty sweet, looked like it would fit too

[coyotewillie 0]

I gave my dealer all the info today, he's supposed to call them tomorrow and order one of the synthetic stock models. At $329+15%+sales tax, it's going to add up, but nobody else seems to have any. I don't know if I have to pay shipping too, but I still couldn't pass it up. I was wondering about the wood stocked ones tho, can't tell from the pics, but is the rear of the receiver square or slanted? The wood is slanted, but can't tell if it's just covering the receiver or not. How much more work will it be to convert a slanted receiver if in fact it is slanted? Greg

Much cheaper way to do it. Look on the internet and find an FFL near you. FAX or have him FAX his FFL to them and pay for it yourself. If out of state there is no sales tax, no 15% markup, and yes you will pay shipping. The FFL will charge you about $15 - $25 to transfer it. I use one right up the road.

 

1911

 

Quite right, but...He's the only dealer in town anymore, and a good (fair) dealer. I've done business with him for several years and he's always treated me right. Of course, when I used to have my own FFL, I sent business his way whenever I knew he had something someone was looking for. He knew that, and has always been fair to me. While he's raised his prices during this panic, he hasn't gouged like some dealers. So, I'll pay the piper now, and I know I'll probably make it up later. Greg

[DanielB 0]

I gave my dealer all the info today, he's supposed to call them tomorrow and order one of the synthetic stock models. At $329+15%+sales tax, it's going to add up, but nobody else seems to have any. I don't know if I have to pay shipping too, but I still couldn't pass it up. I was wondering about the wood stocked ones tho, can't tell from the pics, but is the rear of the receiver square or slanted? The wood is slanted, but can't tell if it's just covering the receiver or not. How much more work will it be to convert a slanted receiver if in fact it is slanted? Greg

Much cheaper way to do it. Look on the internet and find an FFL near you. FAX or have him FAX his FFL to them and pay for it yourself. If out of state there is no sales tax, no 15% markup, and yes you will pay shipping. The FFL will charge you about $15 - $25 to transfer it. I use one right up the road.

 

1911

 

Quite right, but...He's the only dealer in town anymore, and a good (fair) dealer. I've done business with him for several years and he's always treated me right. Of course, when I used to have my own FFL, I sent business his way whenever I knew he had something someone was looking for. He knew that, and has always been fair to me. While he's raised his prices during this panic, he hasn't gouged like some dealers. So, I'll pay the piper now, and I know I'll probably make it up later. Greg

I hope they have more in stock?...I just ordered the syn. one.

[coyotewillie 0]

Picked up mine this am from the dealer. I measured the thickness of the sidewall of the receiver and compared it to my 16" that I had. No difference in thickness there. Everything posted has said that the receivers are supposed to be heavier...don't know where, but mine isn't. Love it tho! Might just convert the 16" and leave this one as it is. Actually has a better trigger pull than the 16" has. Greg

[dave43 0]

Is the receiver on the black stock M identical to regular Saiga? I got the tapco T6 and now I'm worried it won't fit. I hope surefire mags fit also.