Triggerhappy2006 0 Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Here's my feeling on whether Saiga rifles should be considered clones. No, they are made with Russian AK series fully automatic weapons on the same assembly line. They are Russian made. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Here's my feeling on whether Saiga rifles should be considered clones. No, they are made with Russian AK series fully automatic weapons on the same assembly line. They are Russian made. What's a clone?A Hungarian or Bulgarian fully automatic assault rifle is still a clone by people who think a russian gun is the only authentic article.MY Saigas aren't full auto and didn't come with all of the goodies but the barrels,bolts,carriers,springs,ect come off of the Izhmash AK100 assembly line and after adding AK100 furniture to it all I am missing are the receiver dimples and theoretically the commerical receiver blanks are stronger since they were designed to handle 308 and 12ga. Clone/Shmone I'd take my Saiga built on modern machinery with it's higher level of accuracy and consistency over the Original Milled AK47 for anything but collector value so it's all about perspective isn't it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
schadenfreude 2 Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 I don't think it's a clone but rather half finished. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bshoop13 0 Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 Here's my feeling on whether Saiga rifles should be considered clones. No, they are made with Russian AK series fully automatic weapons on the same assembly line. They are Russian made. What's a clone?A Hungarian or Bulgarian fully automatic assault rifle is still a clone by people who think a russian gun is the only authentic article.MY Saigas aren't full auto and didn't come with all of the goodies but the barrels,bolts,carriers,springs,ect come off of the Izhmash AK100 assembly line and after adding AK100 furniture to it all I am missing are the receiver dimples and theoretically the commerical receiver blanks are stronger since they were designed to handle 308 and 12ga. Clone/Shmone I'd take my Saiga built on modern machinery with it's higher level of accuracy and consistency over the Original Milled AK47 for anything but collector value so it's all about perspective isn't it? very well put, I couldn't agree more Quote Link to post Share on other sites
XdamagedX 248 Posted December 14, 2008 Report Share Posted December 14, 2008 I think Saigas are more of a "real" AK than most... but I have to agree that they're half-finished Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mstranglr 9 Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 An AK clone it is not. The term AK literaly constitutes dozens of variations of the same system, the Saiga is simply one of them. Now, to be more specific - a Saiga 7.62x39 can be made into an AKM or AK-103 clone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 Civilian version made in the same factory. Not a clone, a real AK variant made by Mr.K. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bean.223 365 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 All the above is true! I kind of get irked when I walk into a gun store and they sell Wasrs as Ak-47's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted December 16, 2008 Report Share Posted December 16, 2008 variant yes, clone no. Its a hunting rifle based on the infamous assault rifle. see mr. atf man, its a hunting rifle Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hangfire13 0 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 If my understanding is correct, weren't the first AK's milled as opposed to stamped? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 If my understanding is correct, weren't the first AK's milled as opposed to stamped? I see where you're coming from but AK47s are not the only Kalashnikov(AKM,AKMS,AK74) and they have been considered OBSOLETE by the Russian military since 1959. Saying a milled Russian AK47 was the only REAL Kalashnikov would be like saying a Model T was the only REAL Ford,LOL 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agias 0 Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 (edited) variant yes, clone no. That. With my thinking a galil or a valmet would be a clone, everything that's completely AK (interchangeable parts) an AMD-65 or a SAR a variant. Especially if said AK variant is license built. IMO when the russia tells a country "yeah you can build AKs", that's not a clone. Edited December 21, 2008 by Agias Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jack A Sol 2 Posted January 23, 2009 Report Share Posted January 23, 2009 If they were, the state department wouldnt allow them to be imported. Period. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Siaga IS an AK, not a clone. It is a "civilized" variant to keep it importable. My 223 has all the regular holes for trigger and grip nut under the bottom plate. I understand it is the same receiver, trunion, and barrel (less threading at muzzel) as the 5.56 full-auto export model AK made by Izhmash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Etek 32 Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 WASR rifles are AKMs and are 'Clones'. (Along with almost everything else out ther that LOOKS like an AK). Maryland (Stupidly) makes anything based on the AK action as a 'Regulated' firearm including a Saiga rifle or frame. But it's weird that Saiga smoothbores can be bought over the counter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agias 0 Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 WASR rifles are AKMs and are 'Clones'. (Along with almost everything else out ther that LOOKS like an AK). They don't LOOK like an AK, they ARE an AK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WardenWolf 6 Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Clones are homegrown AK variants produced in countries other than Russia. Only Russian AK's and direct copies of them are the real thing. Most AK's produced in other countries nowadays have some domestic modifications, and can thus be classified as clones. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t165 30 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 There is only (1) authentic AK-47. After the first finished working firearm was produced then all subsequent AK-47s, AKMs, and variants are nothing more than clones or copies. Semantics, perspective...everyone has an opinion. For this question to have a correct answer someone would have to be anointed "GunGod" who knows all things about everything relating to Firearms. I know...I know...we all know some self appointed "GunGods" but that doesn't count... I'm going to drive into town and argue with a stoplight now! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SimpleIsGood229 3 Posted February 27, 2009 Report Share Posted February 27, 2009 If my understanding is correct, weren't the first AK's milled as opposed to stamped? As I understand it, the very first ones were stamped, but the Russians has some issues with them. Since they had the whole milling thing down pat (making millions of Mosins), they made AKs with milled receivers until they perfected the stamped receiver. That's my understanding, anyway. As to the OP, I think a Saiga is an AK. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 There is only (1) authentic AK-47. After the first finished working firearm was produced then all subsequent AK-47s, AKMs, and variants are nothing more than clones or copies. Semantics, perspective...everyone has an opinion. For this question to have a correct answer someone would have to be anointed "GunGod" who knows all things about everything relating to Firearms. I know...I know...we all know some self appointed "GunGods" but that doesn't count... I'm going to drive into town and argue with a stoplight now! That,s funny right thar, I don't care where yer frum , LOL,LOL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted May 5, 2009 Report Share Posted May 5, 2009 Not a CLONE. I agree Same Mfg. Plant. Same 'HOLES' (hidden away) in Receiver. Same DESIGN 'inside' (same internals). SAME... EOS. Showed a russian immigrant today Saiga Pic x39, and he said 'AK', just not full-auto like he had in military Added 'NICE' to comments on the pic also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
victoryhawk 3 Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Just begun this clone war has!! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted May 9, 2009 Report Share Posted May 9, 2009 Kalashnikov, or AK variant is exactly the term I use when explaining what I'm shooting. "It's a Saiga 12 gauge. AK variant chambered for 12 Gauge with a 13 rnd mag". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigafan12345 21 Posted May 10, 2009 Report Share Posted May 10, 2009 I'd like to thank the 12 idiots who voted yes for helping give the brady campaign one more reason to try and ban this firearm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted May 11, 2009 Report Share Posted May 11, 2009 What the hell does the word, "clone" have to do with a firearm? Believe me, if they could be "cloned" I would not be forced to buy them! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lakedweller 10 Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 How could it be a clone when it is made in the very factory that makes the AK and is so easily converted to an AK....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jasecloud4 2 Posted June 20, 2009 Report Share Posted June 20, 2009 Meh, I'll quote Shakespeare on this one: "What's in a name? That which we call a rose By any other name would smell as sweet." I'll call my Saiga's dog s**t and that doesn't change their quality, LOL. I go with what works; and Saiga's are the BEST! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted June 28, 2009 Report Share Posted June 28, 2009 I can not believe that this stupid thread is still around! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 The clone wars are still going on. Only when we have won the war will there be peace in the Galaxy and Saiga's will RULE the Galaxy once more. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
massaiga 8 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Saigas are neither AK clones nor AK variants. Saigas are sporting and hunting rifles that just happen to be manufactured in the same plant as current Russian AKs are. If they were anything else you would not be able to legally purchase a new Saiga in California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Jersey or New York. With significant accessorization and customization they can be made to look similar to an AK. Would you people please stop giving the Brady campaign ideas? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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