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Are Saiga's considered clones?


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I'd like to thank the 12 idiots who voted yes for helping give the brady campaign one more reason to try and ban this firearm.

There is only (1) authentic AK-47. After the first finished working firearm was produced then all subsequent AK-47s, AKMs, and variants are nothing more than clones or copies. Semantics, perspective..

Just begun this clone war has!!

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At the factory in Russia where they make real AK's, the rifle is converted to resemble a hunting or "sporter" rifle to be legally importable into the USA. Once here, many creative people restore the rifle back to be the pistol gripped AK it was supposed to be. If we didn't have such draconian gun laws here, the Russian AK factory wouldn't have had to convert the rifle in the first place. It's converted in Russia, & restored in the US. GARY N4KVE

Edited by N4KVE
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Stamped receiver made ​​by Hugo Schmeisser, when he worked at Izhmash.

Carbine "Saiga" was made in 1974 to reduce the herd of antelope in Kazakhstan. Originally caliber carbine was 5.6X39.

Hunting modification of the "Saiga" in Russia do not have the pistol grip.

Sorry for the English.

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All the above is true! I kind of get irked when I walk into a gun store and they sell Wasrs as Ak-47's.

 

 

Then you must live a really irked life sir, because as far as I know, I have never, ever, in my life, walked into a gun store and saw anyone selling an AK-47. If you don't understand the difference between what constitutes a real AK-47, and what we can buy here, because of our "Laws" designed to protect us, then you will never be happy, ever.

 

Just accept what we "Sheeple" are allowed to own, as designated by "Big Brother" and be happy, in fact, be double plus happy about it.

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If you take a '66 Pontiac Tempest, and plug a 389 into it plus some GTO badges, it is deemed a a GTO clone or replica even tho you duplicated the trim package, etc. It was made on the same assembly line by the same workers during the same run and is identical to the eye. It might even be built better, but, it does not matter. It is still a clone in the eye of the Collector.

 

Same with anything else.

 

Being a clone does not make it inferior, and it may make it superior to a well worn original. But, it is still a clone of the original. Same with our guns. smile.png

Edited by Strawdawg
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It's more like buying a jeep in 2wd instead of 4wd and initially dressed up like a station wagon. Both (receiver and barrel / engine and chassis) are from the same factory and of the same quality, but one has a liile more factory installled equipment than the other. Oh! And only police and military can have the 4wd if made after may of 86.

[Hmmm? Need to find me a Scrambler CJ8!]

 

Macbeau sends...

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I would not be surprised to find the Saiga is built better than the AK... :)

 

Never figured out why a jeep was built 2wd, but, I guess it works better at the mall? Find me one too. I need one for shooting out of. Almost lost the rest of my hearing when I did not get the barrel far enuf out the window when I pegged a bobcat leaning across to the passenger window.

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I think AK is a 'platform' just like AR is. Within the AK Platform, there are many variants. Saiga is a variant with a pure bloodline whereas many other variants are not. I also think the only way to have a clone is to build an AK or AR variant to resemble some well know form that they once had such as a Vietnam era CAR-15 or a Desert Storm era Tabuk...or maybe a Red Dawn Maadi. Those to me would be clones. Otherwise it's all good! Saigas are not clones but rather well built AK variants.

Edited by rocketfoot
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If you take a '66 Pontiac Tempest, and plug a 389 into it plus some GTO badges, it is deemed a a GTO clone or replica even tho you duplicated the trim package, etc. It was made on the same assembly line by the same workers during the same run and is identical to the eye. It might even be built better, but, it does not matter. It is still a clone in the eye of the Collector.

 

Same with anything else.

 

Being a clone does not make it inferior, and it may make it superior to a well worn original. But, it is still a clone of the original. Same with our guns. smile.png

 

 

If that Tempest had everything EXACTLY identical to the GTO and came off the same EXACT OEM assemble line with those parts - except for the hood, bumpers, and fenders it would still be a GTO underneath but in a different wrapping. Just to get around insurance companies and worried parents. Or you can look at it as the GTO has a bunch of smog and emissions parts added - hampering its true potential. The Saigas are exactly that, they had their hoods, fenders, and bumpers replaced with "hunting / sporting visuals", in the same factory and on the same lines. Or had a bunch of smog and emission parts slapped on to it. All to get around the ridiculous U.S. laws on them and the anti gun nuts. Might as well say you have a real AK in sheep's clothing. Or you could say you have an AK variant. eehh to each their own in the end we all have very well made rifles from IZHMASH. And with a little love they can be made to shine again.

Edited by Whiskey
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Roll it across the auction floor and see how many people consider it to be a GTO :)

 

No argument on the quality of the Saiga....some how, I suspect AK collectors will not consider it in the same light as an AK even tho it is probably a better weapon than most AKs that have been USAfied.

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Don't think clone is the right word. It's Russian made. But the whole deal why the ak-47 was so revolutionary was that it was spitting out sustained automatic fire of a rifle round, not a sub-machine gun/pistol round. Avtomat Kalashnikova . I don't know Russian but I assume Avtomat MeAns automatic. So if it's not automatic, and doesn't have AK and isn't Russian built means it's nit an ak. Read the book that ca,e out a coouple years back about the AK. Good suff. I think it's called the gun? Could be mistaken.

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Roll it across the auction floor and see how many people consider it to be a GTO smile.png

 

No argument on the quality of the Saiga....some how, I suspect AK collectors will not consider it in the same light as an AK even tho it is probably a better weapon than most AKs that have been USAfied.

 

Oh I agree there would be a lot. People love to pay for the badges when it comes to cars lol. How many would have just wanted to get under the insurance radar? It would probably be a lot also. True I see where you are coming from on the AK collectors P.O.V. Consider the Colt 1911. The Colt 1911 models true diehards will only consider a Colt 1911 the true and only real 1911 and all the others clones. What if Colt made a smogged down version of its 1911? Imo I'm sure the purists would still consider purchasing one and bringing it back to it original luster over one of the "clones".

I also agree that the word clone is no where near to be used for the Saigas. Now a Bulgarian, Chinese, Philippines, Poland, Yugo, etc etc etc (the list goes on) would be considered clones seeing that they did not come off the factory line. Are some of these clone rifles desired over other? sure some are but when I show people my Saigas I always get "Wow, this is Russian!?" with an excited look on their faces. Seems Saigas will hold their value for now (until the law changes), with being Made in Russia still desired over the others.

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My neighbor is building a 1969 Camaro Z28 dual-carb 302. The body came from the factory as an RS. He using all original factory parts, original paint, everything to make it as authentic as possible.

 

Many collectors consider it a clone, because it did not come from the factory in full Z28 trim.

 

How does this affect the saiga? Probably doesnt, go shoot it.

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As long as it feeds and fires reliably what does it matter?.They are made on the same production lines as military AK variants and surely thats good pedigree in anyones books.Its different for us in the UK as our Saigas come in already AK'ed,my MK/AK-104 had the 104 black polymer furniture,flash hider,1000m 'half tick' rear sight and black polymer 30r mags from the factory,so despite not being semi auto they are pretty damn close to an AK in terms of looks and build.It also has a dimpled receiver and doesnt put a ring around the neck of the case when fired.

 

 

 

post-44524-0-87662000-1368027899.jpeg

 

I know the pics of a 105 but this shows how we can buy them from the factory via the UK importer, Rusmilitary.

Edited by UKAK
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