poodle 0 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I have seen alot of really fantastic looking mods andread a lot about converted internals, moving the trigger etc etc etc... Why? I am not trying to be rude. I don't own a saiga yet but hope to one day. I am just wondering of there is something fundamentally wrong with the gun if everyone seems to need to change everything about it. Is there anyone out there who has an un-modded saiga and loves it anyway? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 There's nothing at all wrong with how it comes out of the box. Some of the reason folks convert: A big FU to the revenuers and lawmakers who keep us from getting Saigas as they're originally built (or for that matter, regular Kalashnikovs) It restores the balance and handleability inherent in the Kalashnikov design (for those of us with regular Kalashnikovs, handling a factory Saiga just 'feels wrong in the hand'). . . . and as we're all individuals, everybody wants to customize their ride. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Yeah, it's your firearm, set it up anyway that you like. There is no correct answer for "everyone." Me, I wanted higher capacity magazines, and a pistol grip. My gun needed to fold. Hence, I modded it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csspecs 1,987 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I have a hatred of English style (or "sporter") stocks... I like pistol grips I find them more comfortable especially for holding a shotgun "at the ready" for hours on end. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
numbnuts 1 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 I just got my first S-12. Since I'm no gunsmith and have no dremel tool and don't wanna F up my new gun , I'm gonna have my unit converted by one of the advertisers here. But theres a bit of a wait. So I decided to get a RAA skeletonized stock to get the feel of the pistol grip w/o moving the trigger group, in the meantime........... So far I like it. I see some units here un-converted, prolly due to state laws, or other reasons. But those folks seem to like theirs in the sporter config.......just my 2 cents Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 The main reason for me wanting a Saiga was the fact its a Russian built AK. I think AK = Russia not some other country as a copy. But they hide what it is capable of under the sporting features. Don't get me wrong I do have an unconverted Saiga .223 that will probably stay untouched. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 The plastic stock that comes on it looks like it came out of a really crappy low qty prototype fiberglass mold. But it works fine, and feels fine also. It's less nose heavy setup with the AK stock and PG. Easier to bring up to my shoulder after the clay is already in the air. But easier to over-swing. Honestly I would love to buy another just to keep it configured like it came out of the box. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bayoupiper 738 Posted December 19, 2008 Report Share Posted December 19, 2008 Your weapon, your call. All we do here is offer friendly advice if you want to mod it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 They're kinda like a Harley. We're all proud of our Saigas and want to make them 'our own' with the different mods we do to 'em. Another reason we mod is because we want to be able to legally use high-cap mags or pistol grips and be in compliance with the ignorant laws here in the 'States. If you want to keep yours stock, no problem. It does shoot just fine the way it is and it is a lot of fun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wotan1105 7 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Plus if you're a first time buyer what better way to learn the insides and out by converting it yourself. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Etek 32 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 The factory buttstock on my Saiga 12 was WAY too long for me (And kinda cheap) so I installed the folding pistol grip stock and I found it handles much better. The sight as mounted on the rail above the gas cylinder was a joke so off it came and front AK style and a notch rear sight added. Now I can actually HIT what I aim at whether it be target or beast. I fired it at night and the flash was horrendous so I added a Dinzag flash suppressor which is easily replaced with a muzzle brake when my wife wants to shoot it. No I'll never do a full conversion but I certainly like my Saiga better now. I already have plenty of AK rifles so having my shottie look more like an AK wasn't my intention, just a better functioning weapon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 The factory stock and trigger are horrible. Once you convert it, you can have any stock that will fit on an AK and the trigger feels much better, especially after a little TLC. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
frick 3 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 (edited) With the Tapco "no move of the trigger" collapsable stock for 60 bucks you can have the best of both worlds with a 10 minute procedure that a monkee could learn. Kinda makes it simple. Edited December 20, 2008 by frick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GunRunna47 7 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 i have yet to modify my saiga and i still luv the way it looks!! the factory plastic like stock i did away with and added an original russian metal folding stock (no modifications) just screws right on were the old stock went. i dont think u can find them anymore glad i got mine when i did....i also have a few 10 rd mags a barrel shroud thats looks like a suppressor and a AR-15 forend i think thats all i need. i dont need a shorter barrel 19" is just right plus its yet to let me down. i've heard of ppl converting and theres FTE and FTF i've only had that prob twice and thats only with the stock folded! but i think its cause theres not enough pressure to push the empty shell out ans with the stock out it feeds great i dont know but i still luv it!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Modifing your Saiga is easy, can be done in installments, the stock trigger sucks, by putting a pistol grip on it you shorten the weapon. The list goes one and on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bayonet lug 1 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 For the simple reason that drove mankind out of the trees. Because we CAN. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 While it is a matter of opinion here is mine... The factory sights are very close together on a rather long weapon, increasing the distance between them increases accuracy. The factory stock is garbage. No sooner did i pick up the shotgun and i heard it creak under firm grip. I was honestly a little worried about breaking it. The sporter stock feels akward to my hand, and i prefer a more vertical grip for stability and stance issues. With a sporter stock i want to stick my elbow horizontaly out, this from a strength perspective is less stable than with a vertical grip where my body wants to keep my elbow in close to my body. Try holding a jar of pickles out in front of you and open it, now grab another and hold the jar against your chest. The second jar will be easier. Whats more that elbow out from a tactical perspective is a larger target. A pistol grip or a thumbhole stock will use the webbing of your thumb to help reduce recoil, this decreases your time for follow up shots. - While the choice in the long run is yours, at a minimum i would recomend getting a better sporter stock, maybe a wooden one? the added weight should give it a bit better balance. Just a opinion, take it for what it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
poodle 0 Posted December 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 What seem to be the common faults with a stock saiga out of the box? And do these faults apply to the "spetznaz and "swat" variations? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 What seem to be the common faults with a stock saiga out of the box? And do these faults apply to the "spetznaz and "swat" variations? The main fault is with the trigger linkage for importing to the US. Overseas versions like the Spetz and the swat don't have any of this linkage stuff that we want to remove. We have to follow US federal guidelines to legally get our imported Saigas back into original configuration. IF you can buy the or Vepr 12s or the Exp 01 030 then you have a weapon that we dream of having in the US and you would be more than happy leaving it the way it came. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ernestmayhand 10 Posted December 20, 2008 Report Share Posted December 20, 2008 Not converting?!?!?! Might as well just move to California and bend over. Same premise. If the laws made sense (not that they ever will), the Saiga would have been imported without any need to "convert" it in the first place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 I'm 6'0" and I believe that the sporter stock that the Saiga-12 ships with is made for somebody around 6 inches taller than me. When I wear a leather jacket (always) it is even worse. It is also much easier for me to get my gun back on target when using a pistol grip and shoulder stock rather than just a stock and straight grip. I tear it up with my pistol gripped pump shotgun, and struggle to get my Saiga-12 back on target, even though the recoil is reduced with the Saiga. I am certain that my doing a conversion will turn that Saiga-12 into the beast I know it is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Surly 11 Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 I restored mine to the intended configuration it should have been in to begin with because it makes liberals cry and fudds whine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macross40k 0 Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 because it makes liberals cry and fudds whine. That about sums it up for me! Though, my converted S12 feels a great deal more comfortable...and what could be more badass than an AK-styled shotgun??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7.62x39 0 Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 I have seen alot of really fantastic looking mods andread a lot about converted internals, moving the trigger etc etc etc... Why? I am not trying to be rude. I don't own a saiga yet but hope to one day. I am just wondering of there is something fundamentally wrong with the gun if everyone seems to need to change everything about it. Is there anyone out there who has an un-modded saiga and loves it anyway? Think of it this way. We are actually UN-converting them. They come into this country converted to meet our importation laws. We are just converting them back to their original design configuration. Which includes getting rid of the mickey mouse trigger linkage and putting the trigger back where Mikhail put it in the first place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 I have seen alot of really fantastic looking mods andread a lot about converted internals, moving the trigger etc etc etc... Why? I am not trying to be rude. I don't own a saiga yet but hope to one day. I am just wondering of there is something fundamentally wrong with the gun if everyone seems to need to change everything about it. Is there anyone out there who has an un-modded saiga and loves it anyway? Think of it this way. We are actually UN-converting them. They come into this country converted to meet our importation laws. We are just converting them back to their original design configuration. Which includes getting rid of the mickey mouse trigger linkage and putting the trigger back where Mikhail put it in the first place. I did mine to tell the anti gun Nazis in Commiefornia where I used to live to go fuck themselves now that I live in a free state. I also like the way Mikhail Kalashnikov designed it not the way the way it had to be changed to meet importation laws. Your Saiga will become easier to wield once you rework it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waltham_41 52 Posted December 23, 2008 Report Share Posted December 23, 2008 I started out with the intent of leaving mine in factory condition. Then I saw all of the beautiful examples of other peoples shottys. So I compromised and put on a skeleton stock. Nice, but not the same. So I went all out, and do not regret it a bit. One thing that I do say is a HUGE improvement is the trigger. The stock Saiga trigger leaves a lot to be desired in my humble opinion, and replacing it with a AK style trigger group was a very noticeable improvement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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