lokmeup 30 Posted December 21, 2008 Report Share Posted December 21, 2008 As many do, I have been modifying my Saiga 12 to get it the way I want it for a few months now. I have not been able to shoot until now due to a busy schedule. The Saiga is not completely done (will it ever?), but I finally had some time and could not wait any longer. This was going tot be the first time I shot the S12 and for that matter, the first time I have shot a 12ga. 12-17-2008 I lucked out, I practically have the range to myself, except for one other person. NICE! Saiga 308 First call to business was to sight in my Saiga 308. It is not as accurate as I would like, but it is an AK style rifle, so what can I expect. This is the results using South African battle pack ammo at 100yards. Saiga 12ga Now that I was done playing with the 308, I could sight-in the red dot on the S12. Shooting 2 3/4" Brenneke K.O. Slugs on gas setting #1 and the Polychoke set to slug/cylinder choke, I starting at 25 yards, and shortly moved to 50 yards. By the time I had finished sighting in the S12, the other guy at the range had stopped shooting and had started calling my shots for me. Very cool. He was even digging into his ammo bag looking for different shells for me to shoot. Naturally, I had to let him shot too and he could not stop talking about how cool the shotgun was even though it was an AK and he personally only liked American guns . Everything shell he gave the S12 was quickly consumed. The only problem was with some Winchester Low Recoil Ranger Slugs, but this was quickly remedied by switching to #2 gas setting. As you can see on the target the K.O.'s (left side of target) were grouping tighter than the Rangers (center of target). Post range Modifications Obviously, when I got home from the first range session I was looking for ways to make the S12 better before the next session. I choose to work on the trigger. I ground a little off of the bottom of the disconnector to get a two stage trigger. I slightly stretched out the disconnector spring to give the second stage a more positive feel. And finally I polished all of the contact surfaces. I have to say the trigger is almost perfect. Two stage, positive second stage, with no second stage creep, and no grittiness. A huge improvement over the stock G2 trigger feel. 12-18-2008 Once again the range was empty except for one other. Saiga 308 Not happy with the 308 performance, I took it back to the range to play with the scope settings and concentrate on my technique. Once again, I was not happy with the grouping. My last 308 was a 700pss and the next one is going to be a AR10T, so most likely I am expecting to much from the S308. Saiga 12ga Now the S12 on the other had was ABSOLUTELY FREAKING AWSOME. I LOVE SHOOTING THIS SHOTGUN. The recoil is VERY manageable, maybe even a little less than the 308. Shooting 2 3/4" Brenneke K.O. Slugs on gas setting #1 and the Polychoke set to improved cylinder choke, this time I only shot the S12 on the 100 yard range. Naturally I had to adjust the red dot again, but once I got it dialed in, it shot beautifully. The accuracy of the K.O.'s was amazing = 2" grouping. The only down side is the that I like shooting the S12 so much, I a now looking for a second job to pay for the ammunition. I cannot wait to shoot other loads and different tpes of shotgun targets. Here is the work in progress, note it has been NEUTERED to comply with California Assult Weapon Laws ... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
russianblood 0 Posted December 22, 2008 Report Share Posted December 22, 2008 Very cool range report! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
benwoods 0 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 What kind of red dot are you using? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdeitch 32 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 "Post range Modifications Obviously, when I got home from the first range session I was looking for ways to make the S12 better before the next session. I choose to work on the trigger. I ground a little off of the bottom of the disconnector to get a two stage trigger. I slightly stretched out the disconnector spring to give the second stage a more positive feel. And finally I polished all of the contact surfaces. I have to say the trigger is almost perfect. Two stage, positive second stage, with no second stage creep, and no grittiness. A huge improvement over the stock G2 trigger feel. " Great write up! Could you give us the detail on your trigger modifications. A 'how-to' with pics would be awesome. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Now that's how a range report SHOULD be written! Great job. I've only had my '109 for a little over a month now, and I have a Barska red dot changeable reticle on mine, and my eyesight is nearly perfect (had laser surgery a few years ago)... My question is at 100 yards using the red dot, how well are you able to see your target? I need to get out to a range that has 100 yard lanes, but until then, I'd like to know how well you can see it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Sorry for the late response, but.... What kind of red dot are you using? The Red Dot sight is sold by Tactical Night Vision Company out of Loma Linda California. The sight is part number RDP-II. Here is a PDF file on the sight: Click Here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ugkbunb 0 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 nice, is that a limbsaver on that butt-stock? Looks like the slip-on version... was wondering what model that is. I have a similar stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bcelliott 6 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 How is your red dot mounted? Does the handguard come with a piece on top? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 "Post range ModificationsObviously, when I got home from the first range session I was looking for ways to make the S12 better before the next session. I choose to work on the trigger. I ground a little off of the bottom of the disconnector to get a two stage trigger. I slightly stretched out the disconnector spring to give the second stage a more positive feel. And finally I polished all of the contact surfaces. I have to say the trigger is almost perfect. Two stage, positive second stage, with no second stage creep, and no grittiness. A huge improvement over the stock G2 trigger feel. " Great write up! Could you give us the detail on your trigger modifications. A 'how-to' with pics would be awesome. Thanks in advance! Thanks. The trigger job is simple, but there are certain things you need to keep in mind when modifying the trigger or you'll ruin the trigger. THINGS TO REMEMBER (1) When Polishing the surfaces NEVER change the angle of the metal. The angles are specifically designed to keep the trigger positive. If you polish incorrectly and change the angles, you may turn the trigger into a neutral or worse, a negative trigger. One that may easily fire accidentally. (2) Less is ALWAYS better than more. Take your time when modifying the trigger. Polish a little and reassemble. Shave a little and reassemble to check for the expected changes. Add a little material and reassemble to check the expected changes. (3) Maintain at least 50% trigger engagement of the hammer when cocked for a safe trigger. TWO STAGE TRIGGER (2 METHODS) The way in which the AK will have a two stage trigger is to modify the disconnector so that it barely touches the hammer right before the trigger releases the hammer. If done correctly, the weight of the trigger will increase right before the point of hammer release letting you know your on the ragged edge of firing. It works by adding the spring tension of the disconnector spring to the trigger spring right at the point of firing. With this modification you will get a definitive 2nd stage stop right before the hammer drops. Without any guess work you will know exactly when the AK will fire. (1) With the first method you add material to the head of the disconnector and file it back until you get the desired effect of the disconnector bumping into the hammer right before it drops. OR (2) With the second method you remove material from the bottom of the the disconnector, which moves the head of the disconnector closer to the hammer so it can bump into it right before the hammer drops. WEIGHT OF 2ND STAGE You can adjust the weight of the second stage to some extent by modifying the disconnector spring. Shortening it a little will lighten the second stage and lengthening it will make it heavier. SMOOTHING THE TRIGGER FEEL Simple mirror polish all areas of metal contact. MAKE SURE NOT TO CHANGE ANY OF THE ANGLES. DIAGRAM Red areas represent areas to modify for 2 stage trigger job. Adding material to the disconnector, removing material from the disconnector, or a little of both. Blue areas represent areas to polish. Here is a picture of the modified trigger installed. You can clearly see that the trigger is on the verge of releasing the hammer right as the disconnector is bumping into the hammer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 My question is at 100 yards using the red dot, how well are you able to see your target? I need to get out to a range that has 100 yard lanes, but until then, I'd like to know how well you can see it. The red dot almost covers the black area on a standard 100 yard bulls-eye target at 100 yards. Not a bad picture. Definitely easy to aim for center of mass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 nice, is that a limbsaver on that butt-stock? Looks like the slip-on version... was wondering what model that is. I have a similar stock. It is a Deluxe Combat Style Model 47 Butt Pad. I bought it for around $20, but I have seen them in the $10 range on the web. Search Google using this part number and you should be able to find a good price: RB-K7BTP01 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 How is your red dot mounted? Does the handguard come with a piece on top? The Red Dot is mounted to a small low profile picatinny rail welded to the gas tube. The hand guard is the standard Tapco Galil style handguard trimmed to fit. It comes with the top piece you see in these pictures. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bcelliott 6 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 lokmeup, thanks for taking the time to take the pics. I really like your welded rail. Okay, I'll admit it...I want to copy your picatinny setup, but with a Chaos Tri-Rail handguard. So can you tell me where you got the rail and how you modified it before you welded it on? Does the gas tube ever shift under recoil? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 lokmeup, thanks for taking the time to take the pics. I really like your welded rail. Okay, I'll admit it...I want to copy your picatinny setup, but with a Chaos Tri-Rail handguard. So can you tell me where you got the rail and how you modified it before you welded it on? Does the gas tube ever shift under recoil? I had the picatinny rail installed by Henderson Defense in Nevada. They ordered a standard 2" rail and machined it shorter and lower the profile. They shaved off almost 1/4" in height. I was quite adamant about getting it as low as possible. I think it could be a little lower, thou. The gas tube is solid on the S12, unlike AKs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bcelliott 6 Posted January 15, 2009 Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Thanks-very helpful! Just a couple more questions. Assuming you took the red dot and top piece off the Galil handguard, can you see through the stock sights? And if you remove the red dot, when you re-install, does the zero shift at all? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lokmeup 30 Posted January 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2009 Thanks-very helpful! Just a couple more questions. Assuming you took the red dot and top piece off the Galil handguard, can you see through the stock sights? And if you remove the red dot, when you re-install, does the zero shift at all? I can still use the iron sights with the red dot removed. Being able to use the factory sights was one of my main concerns. That is why I insisted on a low profile rail (and ascetically it looks better). As far as maintaining zero, I am not sure. The specific mount is sturdy, but was not designed to maintain zero when removed and reinstalled. I would assume it would keep fairly zero, but not perfectly like some of the 200+ AR quick release picatinny mounts. But, I have not removed the sight to check if it retains zero. I could be wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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