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I am a Newbie here, and would like a little help.

 

I found a couple saiga 223's at a small gunshop yesterday and the price is right, $215. I am going to buy one tomarow. I plan on doing the conversion sometime down the road. In researching this I have become aware of the need for a bullet guide to fit certain mags. The 223's at the store are both different, one has a "square trunion" top, and one has a "round trunion" top. I plan on buying the bullet guide from dinzag and he has them for both round and square. My question is, which one is better/easier ?

Edited by Deerhunter1962
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Welcome to the board. At that price (and availability) buy both, convert one and sit on the other, convert both or flip one. Either way I would by both.

 

Also let me be the first to break your balls about your avatar! Get rid of that thing! :shocked:

Edited by Tacticool
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...Also let me be the first to break your balls about your avatar! Get rid of that thing! :shocked:

(A friend of mine spells it Obomba - which is what I expect, just like when Clinton was occupying the White House. No happy faces here... )

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I ended up getting the square trunion and my buddy got the round trunion one. Got a remarkable deal on ammo too.

 

Come on guys, I can't be the only democrat in the house, I mean the race wasn't even close. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

Yes, You Can!

 

No it wasn't close, but no one here is happy about the outcome. I'm not sure we'd be delighted if it had gone the other way, but we'd feel safer about our guns. Let us know how you feel about it when Your liberal jackass makes you new Saiga illegal and raises ammo so high you can't shoot it and you're taxed to death to pay for his programs! I know, he's not gonna raise taxes. BULLSHIT!!!

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wow, zanaxx people! Wasn't looking for a political debate or anything, but. Ole bushy has done just such a splendid job right? His executive orders have been good for personal freedoms , right? As for the new AWB, so we have to buy our guns without flash supressor and barrel shrouds and such, anyone here even remember the last AWB? There was never a shortage of high cap mags, and the guns looked a little different but were essentially the same. And SOMEONE please tell me the differance between an AWB not letting anyone buy an AW and AW's being legal to buy but nobody haveing a job and being able to afford one??? Right now there are so many people selling their guns and cars, and more just to survive their bills, I quess that is because we have had a democrat in the white house for the last 8 years right? I am a union worker, labor allways favors the democrats, and so do I. I might not agree with every one of their items on their agenda. How long could America have lasted the way we were going??What kind of country would it be with no jobs, no food, but plenty of guns?? That being said I am an NRA life member, A gun owner, An AVID hunter, And a Democrat. Proud of each and every one of those things. And just for the record your "conservative" Jackass you have had in the office for the last 8 years hasn't done any good either. And how many republicans have said "no new taxes" and turned around and done the opposite??

Edited by Deerhunter1962
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Deerhunter, if you're not dead-set on converting your Saiga, you can buy high-cap mags that work perfectly on unconverted rifles. I've got two 20-rounders, from Surefire, that work much better than the 10-round job that came with mine. They're a little pricey, but they also have the last round bolt-hold-open feature.

 

Congrats on the absolute steal of a price! I thought I was doing great getting mine for $270.

 

p.s. I'm a Democrat, too.

Edited by heron
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...Come on guys, I can't be the only democrat in the house, I mean the race wasn't even close. :rolleyes:

I'll suck it up & admit that I'm a former Democrat, having been born in Minnesota (where that complete @sshat Al Frankhole is trying to steal the election, even as we speak). But then (1985?) Winston Churchill's observation kicked in for me ('if you're not a liberal when you're 20, you have no heart - if you're not a conservative when you're 40, you have no head'... quoting from memory).

 

And allow me to suggest that the fact that the race wasn't even close should not influence you - do you want to vote like the ignorant majority (in this case), or like the well-informed minority?

 

(By the way, I think McCaine sucked, too, but he definitely sucked less than the Lord Obama... ;>)

 

Hopefully the body count won't run up under Obama - but (because he was a freakin' State legislator only 4 years ago, and probably can't find his freakin' backside without advice from his left-wing Clinton-retread advisers. or a cash payment from some left-wing lobbyist) I'm not too optimistic.

 

Just my gray-haired-old-fart-gun-owner opinion...

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I voted the way I chose to vote, not following anyone. I just meant that with as many people that voted democrat, that there must be more present than just me. Being a democrat does not necesarily make you a liberal.

 

And Obama is not my savior and I don't view him as anywhere close to perfect. I just KNOW America could not have another 4 years on the SAME road as we have been. As for lobbyists influencing a president, bush is a good example of this. Heck all politicians are. I just personally believe obama was the best pick.

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Just a warning: you'll get a boat-load of honest opinion here - here's an example:

 

 

I voted the way I chose to vote, not following anyone.

 

Good for you!

 

I just meant that with as many people that voted democrat, that there must be more present than just me.

 

Not necessarily, on a firearms-related web site. Most gun owners were finished with the Democrat Party years ago (check out the election result in 1994), thanks to the innumerable gun-bans the Democrats pushed (& passed) at the State & federal level. The Democrat Party will do the same under this federal administration - a leopard (& a Socialist) can not change its spots. The Democrat party is and has been anti-gun, and therefore is and has been anti-freedom.

 

Being a democrat does not necesarily make you a liberal.

 

True - Zell Miller is one of my favorite public officials. The Democrat Party (& Mr. Obama) wouldn't, however, give him the time of day...

 

And Obama is not my savior and I don't view him as anywhere close to perfect. I just KNOW America could not have another 4 years on the SAME road as we have been.

 

Who says it would have been the same? The freakin' Democrats! You're just buyin' someones spam ad! In fact, McCaine ran against Bush in previous elections. Maybe it would have been worse - maybe it would have been better. But you would have to be awfully naive to predict it would be exactly 'the same'...

 

As for lobbyists influencing a president, bush is a good example of this. Heck all politicians are. I just personally believe obama was the best pick.

 

Bush sucked (IMHO), even though he was better than his electoral opponents. Obama will be 100 times worse, thanks in part to his 'pay-to-play' Chicago-Democrat-machine-politics background; thanks in part to his Clintonista 'bomb-the-aspirin-factory-and-they-will-never-pay-attention-at-home' approach to government; and thanks in part to the basic fact that he's a gun (& money) -grabbing Socialist.

 

Feel free to quote me - BHO will be the worst president in the (minimum) last 100 years.

 

By the way, if I were you, I would buy both of those Saigas - I have not seen them at that price in a looooong time (I paid $265 for mine, about 2-3 years ago, IIRC)! It's you're lucky day: go for it, compadre! If you decide not to buy both, please post contact info here for the licensed firearms dealer in question, and I'm sure someone will give him a call ASAP!

 

Thanks for the 'heads up!"

 

And welcome to the Saiga forum - we always welcome fresh input!

Edited by Bad Bob
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Just a warning: you'll get a boat-load of honest opinion here - here's an example:

 

 

I voted the way I chose to vote, not following anyone.

 

Good for you!

 

I just meant that with as many people that voted democrat, that there must be more present than just me.

 

Not necessarily, on a firearms-related web site. Most gun owners were finished with the Democrat Party years ago (check out the election result in 1994), thanks to the innumerable gun-bans the Democrats pushed (& passed) at the State & federal level. The Democrat Party will do the same under this federal administration - a leopard (& a Socialist) can not change its spots. The Democrat party is and has been anti-gun, and therefore is and has been anti-freedom.

 

Being a democrat does not necesarily make you a liberal.

 

True - Zell Miller is one of my favorite public officials. The Democrat Party (& Mr. Obama) wouldn't, however, give him the time of day...

 

And Obama is not my savior and I don't view him as anywhere close to perfect. I just KNOW America could not have another 4 years on the SAME road as we have been.

 

Who says it would have been the same? The freakin' Democrats! You're just buyin' someones spam ad! In fact, McCaine ran against Bush in previous elections. Maybe it would have been worse - maybe it would have been better. But you would have to be awfully naive to predict it would be exactly 'the same'...

 

As for lobbyists influencing a president, bush is a good example of this. Heck all politicians are. I just personally believe obama was the best pick.

 

Bush sucked (IMHO), even though he was better than his electoral opponents. Obama will be 100 times worse, thanks in part to his 'pay-to-play' Chicago Democrat machine politics background; thanks in part to his Clintonista 'bomb-the-aspirin-factory-and-they-will-never-pay-attention-at-home' approach to government; and thanks in part to the basic fact that he's a gun (& money) -grabbing Socialist.

 

Feel free to quote me - BHO will be the worst president in the (minimum) last 100 years...

 

So far bush has been the biggest anti-freedom president to date. Also obama might end up being the worst president in 100 years, future will tell. One thing that has allready transpired though, bush HAS BEEN the worst president in the last 100 years. As for "buyin' someones spam ad!" that can be said as true on BOTH sides, isnt that what politics is all about. The whole "obama will take away your bb guns too" fear driven mentality is proof of that.

 

I have no illusions about guns in the upcoming administration, I think things will go a little more anti-gun than would have been with a republican. But it aint all about guns you know. When was the last time you tried to eat a gun? or tried to get a job with a gun? How many people do you know that have lost their job? how much shooting can you do when you don't have a job? I have personall bought a few nice hunting rifles at steals of a price lately from people NEEDING to sell them to live. in each case they cursed the democrats for them losing their jobs. I am pretty sure we have been under republican leadership for the last 8 years. But to some people the battle lines are solid and it is allways your side / my side. and to some its ALL about the guns. The country can go to hell and nobody have a job but "as long as they don't mess with my guns I'll vote republican". That just is not my way of thinking.

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So far bush has been the biggest anti-freedom president to date. Also obama might end up being the worst president in 100 years, future will tell. One thing that has allready transpired though, bush HAS BEEN the worst president in the last 100 years.

 

This is probably the wrong forum for it, but care to be specific? At least Bush (and a pox on both of them, as far as I'm concerned) got Congressional approval for his wars (including 'thumbs up' from Democrat hypocrites like Kerry & Rodham-Clinton); unlike President Clinton (who got hauled into federal court by Congressional Republicans, because he obviously failed to do so before invading Yugoslavia).

 

As for "buyin' someones spam ad!" that can be said as true on BOTH sides, isnt that what politics is all about. The whole "obama will take away your bb guns too" fear driven mentality is proof of that.

 

Sorry, compadre, but that is NOT "what politics is all about." Politics should be 'about' informing the public, and asking the public to make an informed decision. It has been said that the Republican Party is the STUPID party, and that the Democrat Party is the DISHONEST party. In my opinion, that generalization is pretty close to correct. What's your preference? Bush may have been stupid, but he wasn't dishonest (no matter what the lying Democrats say). And Obama sure as heck is not stupid (no matter what the stupid Republicans, like John McCaine say), but he sure as heck is not honest, either.

 

I have no illusions about guns in the upcoming administration, I think things will go a little more anti-gun than would have been with a republican.

 

Actually, you are completely delusional, given the historical track record of the Democrat Party over the past 30 years. I'm old (& experienced) enough to say it.

 

But it aint all about guns you know.

 

Actually, it almost is. Read Thomas Jefferson's 'Kentucky Resolutions' - you can find them online. Read Mr. Jefferson's second Declaration (dated 1825, entitled Declaration and Protest on the Principles of the Constitution of the United States of America, and on the Violations of Them [by the federal government]) - didn't even know that one existed, did you?). Go back even further, and read John Locke's writings. The bottom line is this - if you actually want to preserve a free society established by the people and for the peiople, you can not (by definition) disarm the people. And the Democrat Party has (during my lifetime, in multiple States, and at the federal level) been focused on disarming law-abiding American citizens.

 

When was the last time you tried to eat a gun? or tried to get a job with a gun?

 

When was the last time you got a meal from the federal government? If they had one to give you, it was only because they took it, under threat of force, from your neighbor. As for federal jobs, it's the same thing - the federal government takes money from your neighbor (under threat of force), and pays it out to someone else. How do I know? I worked (honestly) for the federal government for more years than I care to admit, and saw more corruption than I care to describe.

 

How many people do you know that have lost their job?

 

Why not ask me how many days I spent living out of the back seat of my 1974 Dodge Dart (learning not to spend back-to-back nights in the same shopping center parking lot), with everything I owned inside? The Democrat Party didn't 'give' me a job (couldn't if they wanted to - they're a bunch of parasites). And neither did the federal government (which only takes from one person & 'gives' to another). I moved my @ss across the country to where I could find work, and got an honest (non-government) job, shoveling mud at a construction site. And when I decided that was more than I could handle, I got an honest (non-government) job in a welding supply warehouse.

 

how much shooting can you do when you don't have a job?

 

I know it's a simple question - but HOW MUCH SHOOTING CAN YOU DO WHEN THE DEMOCRATS OUTLAW FIREARMS OWNERSHIP? I've lived in Kalifornia, and I remember the Clinton gun ban. Read some history. You're wrong - get used to it. (And by the way, I've had to sell most of my firearms and ammunition in the past to pay IRS bills, so don't whine to me about "how much shooting can you do"... )

 

I have personall bought a few nice hunting rifles at steals of a price lately from people NEEDING to sell them to live. in each case they cursed the democrats for them losing their jobs.

 

 

Maybe they were right - Barney Frank & Chris Dodd (both Democrats) stone-walled legislation promoted by Republicans, that might have prevented the current economic mess. Of course, the Democrats & the media (& even the spaghetti-spined Republican politicians) aren't talking about that now...

 

 

I am pretty sure we have been under republican leadership for the last 8 years.

 

Actually, you're wrong, in spades. The Republicans have controlled Congress for only four of the last eight years. (Remember Jim Jeffords? Remember the election in '06? Care to tell us all about anything good that the Democrat Congress has done for us in the last two years, that the evil Republican president has vetoed? I didn't think so - there's a reason the Democrat Congress has a 9% approval rating.) And Bush has not ever cared to veto much of anything passed by Congress (Democrat or Republican - check his record).

 

 

But to some people the battle lines are solid and it is allways your side / my side. and to some its ALL about the guns. The country can go to hell and nobody have a job but "as long as they don't mess with my guns I'll vote republican". That just is not my way of thinking.

 

"Your side / my side?" No: it's truth versus delusion & bull sh!t. I'm not a Bush fan - but I don't blame him for risking my job, or ask him to get me a new one. And I don't claim the Republicans want to confiscate my guns, like the Democrats do. You're obviously a young person - if you learn anything in life, please learn one thing: government is a parasite. In the long run, a parasite can not give you a real job, or really benefit your life.

 

Unfortunately - as long as the Democrat Congress (the same Congress that stonewalled Republican attempts, live on CSPAN tv, to prevent the current economic problems) tells you that it was all the Republican's fault, I'm guessing you'll buy it. I did when I was your age - but then, I didn't have anyone with more experience to clue me in...

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Deerhunter,

 

I admire your sand and conviction! You do make some very good points. There is a larger picture than just out gun rights. We are teetering on the brink of another great depression, caused by corporate greed and ineffective Government looking the other way. I teach History and Government. I will show you a time line of the Great Depression. It is scary when compared to now!

 

I do think you are wrong, though, on one point. Make no mistake. I live in Illinois, and Obama is one of the most anti-gun legislators we have ever produced, and that is saying something. Some of the bills he co-sponsored in the Illinois legislature would curl your toes. Within six months of his being sworn in, there will be an assault weapons ban that makes the last one look mild. I have seen the draft House Resolution. It even includes M1 carbine, Mini-14s, M1as and possibly a 742 Remington semi Auto 30-06. Anything semi-auto that can accept a high capacity magazine. Even Cowboy Action Shooting lever actions would be limited to 10 rounds!

 

The BATFE agent for the area told my buddy that owns the gunshop in town that Obama has an executive order waiting to sign that will temporarily ban importation of all AWs, high caps, and "Military caliber" ammunition. It will be an "Emergency Measure" until congress passes the law. I don't think the Agent was pulling his chain, as he is a hunter and pro gun. He was pretty disgusted by it.

 

Oh, by the way. I draw your attention to April 19th of 1775. 700 British Regulars under Lt. Colonel Frances Smith were en-route to confiscate the weapons of the Colonist that were stored in Concord. In order to impose further regulations and martial law on the colonists, they knew they had to first confiscate their weapons. Colonist tried to stop them at Lexington, but they were too few. They fell back to Concord, the word was spread, and the British were route by a superior force of Minutemen who had arranged a reception.

 

The point of this History lesson is that every leader knows to totally subjugate a population, you must first disarm them. ANother little know fact is that after WWII, the Army uncovered secret agreements between the Japanese and the Germans to split the US down the middle after they conquered it. While their plans were horrific (Red Dawn was a Sunday picnic compared to what they had planned). The single biggest problem they felt they faced, however, was that we were a nation of well armed individuals. Back then it was politically correct to be a shooter and hunter. High Schools had riflery teams, even. They rightly believed that partisan activity would be horrendous, causing them great casualties.

 

Now we are so politically correct, I can't even teach those facts to my students.

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Bad Bob, you sure are long winded huh? :rolleyes: Anyways I am not going to go on about this because in my heart and mind you are wrong, and you probably feel the same about me. All I can say is thank god enough REPUBLICANS seen the light this election, and we all know the outcome of that. by the way born in 1950, so maybe you are the youngster who is a little low on the experience totem.

 

imarangemaster, I agree with you in large part about the anti-gun possibilities of the upcoming administration, probably my largest problem with the democratic party is it's anti-gun agendas. But, slavery by disarmament or slavery by poverty, choose your poison. If america does not get it's manufacturing base back there are some very catastophic realities in store for us. You are so correct, we are teetering.

 

Would it not be nice to be able to customize our politicians by category, kinda like buying a dell online. What would that party be called???? reason perhaps.

Edited by Deerhunter1962
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Bad Bob, you sure are long winded huh? :rolleyes: Anyways I am not going to go on about this because in my heart and mind you are wrong, and you probably feel the same about me. All I can say is thank god enough REPUBLICANS seen the light this election, and we all know the outcome of that. by the way born in 1950, so maybe you are the youngster who is a little low on the experience totem.

"I am not going to go on about this because in my heart and mind...you probably feel the same..."

 

Sorry, compadre - I never vote on the basis of feelings - my country deserves better. If you would stick with your brain functions, IMHO, you would do better in the voting booth.

 

"All I can say is thank god enough REPUBLICANS seen the light this election..."

 

"Seen the light?" They just stayed home, sport, because they couldn't vote for either sack of manure - the experienced one (McCaine) or the absolutely clueless one (the dipsh!t State legislator you voted for).

 

"...by the way born in 1950, so maybe you are the youngster who is a little low on the experience totem."

 

If so, I would have to suggest that you're pretty high on the clueless totem.

 

I would say 'no disrespect,' but because my freedom is being jeopardized by dipsh!ts like you, I will refrain.

 

And by the way, my advice stands, buy both of the Saigas @ $215 each - you won't regret it...

Edited by Bad Bob
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That being said I am an NRA life member, A gun owner, An AVID hunter, And a Democrat. Proud of each and every one of those things.

 

 

Then you should KNOW how pro-gun people think of him. You had to know that posting on a gun board with that avatar was going to raise issues.

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I would say 'no disrespect,' but because my freedom is being jeopardized by dipsh!ts like you, I will refrain.

 

And by the way, my advice stands, buy both of the Saigas @ $215 each - you won't regret it...

Bad Bob, Bad :haha: temper temper, you know what they say about the guy who resorts to namecalling in a debate. :haha: And between me and my buddy we did buy both of them, I picked the square trunion one.

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As was stated earlier deerhunter1962 posting on here with a nobama avaitor is like walking down harlem with a KKK suit on. Just my opinion but damn either your slow or just like to stir the shit. And yes i would have bought both on the spot.

I hope we are all wrong on nobama but i'm not holding my breath. Just keeping my head down till the dust settles.

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I would say 'no disrespect,' but because my freedom is being jeopardized by dipsh!ts like you, I will refrain.

 

And by the way, my advice stands, buy both of the Saigas @ $215 each - you won't regret it...

Bad Bob, Bad :haha: temper temper, you know what they say about the guy who resorts to namecalling in a debate. :haha:

And you know the old saying, "if the shoe fits..." If a guy is a gun owner, and he votes for an ultra-liberal Democrat who has voiced approval of gun bans/restrictions, he is (to put it kindly) a dipsh!t. That's not "namecalling" - it's a simple fact.

 

 

And between me and my buddy we did buy both of them, I picked the square trunion one.

Really? Good for you!

 

That kind of reminds me - I used to work with a guy who was a gun owner, outdoorsman, real nice guy to work with. When he found out I had an AR I had built & was willing to sell, he asked me about it (he said he used to own an AR when he was up in Alaska, but had sold it when he moved to the lower 48). He looked the AR over & ended up buying it for what I had in it (good deal for him ;>).

 

Afterward, he told me why he wanted it - he said he figured the Democrats were going to ban them, and wanted to get one for himself before that happened. The funny thing was, he voted a straight Democrat ticket every freakin' election, and wasn't shy about it. So there he was, helping to elect the same people he actually figured would ban his guns. He didn't care, so long as he had his. Nice guy on the surface, but in reality he was a selfish SOB, and a genuine, certifiable dipsh!t to boot.

 

I should have charged him more for that AR...

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Just a warning: you'll get a boat-load of honest opinion here - here's an example:

 

 

I voted the way I chose to vote, not following anyone.

 

Good for you!

 

I just meant that with as many people that voted democrat, that there must be more present than just me.

 

Not necessarily, on a firearms-related web site. Most gun owners were finished with the Democrat Party years ago (check out the election result in 1994), thanks to the innumerable gun-bans the Democrats pushed (& passed) at the State & federal level. The Democrat Party will do the same under this federal administration - a leopard (& a Socialist) can not change its spots. The Democrat party is and has been anti-gun, and therefore is and has been anti-freedom.

 

Being a democrat does not necesarily make you a liberal.

 

True - Zell Miller is one of my favorite public officials. The Democrat Party (& Mr. Obama) wouldn't, however, give him the time of day...

 

And Obama is not my savior and I don't view him as anywhere close to perfect. I just KNOW America could not have another 4 years on the SAME road as we have been.

 

Who says it would have been the same? The freakin' Democrats! You're just buyin' someones spam ad! In fact, McCaine ran against Bush in previous elections. Maybe it would have been worse - maybe it would have been better. But you would have to be awfully naive to predict it would be exactly 'the same'...

 

As for lobbyists influencing a president, bush is a good example of this. Heck all politicians are. I just personally believe obama was the best pick.

 

Bush sucked (IMHO), even though he was better than his electoral opponents. Obama will be 100 times worse, thanks in part to his 'pay-to-play' Chicago Democrat machine politics background; thanks in part to his Clintonista 'bomb-the-aspirin-factory-and-they-will-never-pay-attention-at-home' approach to government; and thanks in part to the basic fact that he's a gun (& money) -grabbing Socialist.

 

Feel free to quote me - BHO will be the worst president in the (minimum) last 100 years...

 

So far bush has been the biggest anti-freedom president to date. Also obama might end up being the worst president in 100 years, future will tell. One thing that has allready transpired though, bush HAS BEEN the worst president in the last 100 years. As for "buyin' someones spam ad!" that can be said as true on BOTH sides, isnt that what politics is all about. The whole "obama will take away your bb guns too" fear driven mentality is proof of that.

 

I have no illusions about guns in the upcoming administration, I think things will go a little more anti-gun than would have been with a republican. But it aint all about guns you know. When was the last time you tried to eat a gun? or tried to get a job with a gun? How many people do you know that have lost their job? how much shooting can you do when you don't have a job? I have personall bought a few nice hunting rifles at steals of a price lately from people NEEDING to sell them to live. in each case they cursed the democrats for them losing their jobs. I am pretty sure we have been under republican leadership for the last 8 years. But to some people the battle lines are solid and it is allways your side / my side. and to some its ALL about the guns. The country can go to hell and nobody have a job but "as long as they don't mess with my guns I'll vote republican". That just is not my way of thinking.

 

 

I didn't mean to come off so strong. I'm just tired of the Repubs taking the blame for Dem policies and the Dems taking credit for the Repubs answers to Dem created problems. Contrary to belief, I'm not a die hard Repub. thinking everything Rep. is right and Dem wrong. I'm a constitutionalist. Do away with big gov. Let them take care of foreign policy and leave the people alone! I could try to debate with you as BB did, but that went nowhere, so what's the use. All I ask of my gov. is to let me and mine alone. Don't help people that won't work by extorting money out of me. Don't legislate laws for my own good, I'm a big boy and this is my short walk called life, as long as I'm not stealing, raping, or murdering, mind your own business and let me walk it my way. If I skin my knee or bump my head, it's my problem, not theirs. Life isn't guarenteed painless, so quit trying to legislate it to be so. Let natural selection take it's course. If your gonna be dumb, you better be tough, clean out the gene pool.

I lost my job and a good part of my savings to this greedy gov. and I don't want their help to stay on my feet. I have never been guarenteed a job or happiness in this life. Thank God above that I was born in this country and was guarenteed the persuit of of it. Just leave me alone and let me. End of rant.

 

You'll love the Saiga and maybe even learn some things. Unfortunatly, it's too late to enjoy going through 500-1k rounds at a time through it as some of us have. Welcome to the board!

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I might add to this debate that our ability to disagree without killing each other is what makes us better than places like Iraq, Venezuela, China, Ukraine, Somalia, ad infinitum...

 

 

When I enlisted in the Army MPs in the early 70s, I was there to defend the same people who were calling me a "baby killer," even though the closest I can to VN was Oakland Army base counting the last of the sealed silver boxes coming back.

 

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

-- George Orwell

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Altho I'm a Republican, I've never voted strict party lines. I've always tried to vote for whomever I belived would be the best choice no matter which party affiliation. That said, I've been pretty fed up with GB as president. While McCain really wasn't my first choice of the Republicans, I still admire the man and all he's been through and I really wasn't that worried about having him in office. So, I voted for him. Quite honestly, I'm really unsure about Obama's domestic/economic leadership, can't see how its going to get much worse than we have it now! BUT! His gun ownership and foreign policies scare the hell out of me. Can't see how it's a good thing when all the countries in the world, that have shown disdain and outright hate for the U.S., welcome Obama as president, with open arms. And when he and a good share of the Democrat polititions he's surrounding himself with, are, by record, proponents of gun bans, it can't be good for the U.S. PERIOD!

 

I do find it odd, that someone with the firearms/hunting background that you have, would join a firearms related Internet forum such as this one, and post such a controversial avatar as yours. You also don't seem very upset with Obama's probable (we'll see) AWB, given his record. Some of the forum sites I go to would immediately brand you as a Troll, trying to stir everyone up. I sincerely hope that isn't the case here, but you can't blame people if they suspect it. Especially when you're so willing to brag him up so much. Obviously you should realize that the $215 Saiga (cheap!) would be included in the import ban. And if worse comes to worse, with a total ban, has the potential to make you a criminal, if you choose to keep/hide it, or a model citizen (timid sheeple), that turns theirs in. It's not that much of an improbable scenerio anymore. Anyway, I'm surprised that you find it so easy to flaunt his virtues on this type of forum, when you know what it means to everyone here. IF, you're not a Troll that is. No offense meant if you're not. Greg

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What gets me is we got Montel Williams peddleing "Commeritive coin sets" featuring Obama and Alabama wants to make a Obama Holiday. My only question is "What has this guy done?" EVER! When have we ever seen this much hipe about a president-elect before. Especially one with such a limitted record?

 

Why do you think there is this big Gun rush? Why is ammo pricing going through the roof?

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Ok, i'll bite will you roll over when they "nobamanation" comes for your saigas and turn in any neighbors or guys you shot with at the range or will you stand and fight with us in defending our 2nd amendment rights?

If you don't think they will take yours in that event because you voted for nobama and are waving your nobama flag you are mistaken.

It amazes me how mislead some people are and in dealing with the public on a day to day bases. I can see how the sheep can be lead to slaughter. I truly hope i'm wrong but you and the rest of us have seen nothing yet i believe.

All in the name of i'm sure "public safety" for our own good.

And yes i voted for Bush both times and i didn't agree with everything he did but i'm damn sure glad he was at the wheel when 9/11 came.

No i wasn't thrilled with the options this go around either but i dam sure didn't want Nobama in and i might have won the election also if i promised every one a free check and a robin hood aproach of taking from the rich and give to the poor.

The same rich who put him into power and now he is going to tax the shit out of them, i don't think so.

Any way not to jack the thread but your smug attitude will be fun for the rest of us at your expense. :haha:

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not smug, proud and confident, there is a differance that I hope SOMEDAY you experience. Yessh, your guy lost, mine won, grow up, move on, it's just an avatar. And you only have to "endure" 8 years of Obama ! :haha:

 

 

Unfortunatly, the last part is probably correct. You never answered evildogs question, and it was at the heart of the discussion.

We were headed in the Socialist direction with either candidate, just gonna move faster that way with Obamanation. The main reason the Repubs or Dems can't stop it is you can't take away something that has already been given and be re-elected. Just as Deerhunter has been given more and more by union reps after their time had past, and have helped drive the cost of our goods up to the point that we can't compete with the overseas businesses, or the people that won't work that have been given so much that minimum wage doesn't pay enough to entice the lazy to work. The sorry asses that won't work are taken better care of than those of us that work can take care of ourselves. There is something terribly wrong with this, and it can't be fixed by giving more away. This could not happen in a Republic, only in a Democracy, and a Democracy can not survive as a means of government. Anyone who has kids or grandkids will not be proud of the government that will be left to them unless something drastic changes, and those changes will not be made by the two party system we have now. Balls will have to be grown, leaches will have to be removed (not the sick or elderly, but the young and healthy), and businesses will have to be allowed to prosper and the original American Dream achieved!

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