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Siaga 12 gas piston for 922R


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#1 GimmeLiberty

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 10:14 PM

Do both the floating hockey puck gas piston AND the gas piston rod count as 1 if replaced for 922R in the Saiga 12? Is the gas piston rod the same as an AK piston ?
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#2 rodm1

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 07:13 PM

Tag

#3 superhawk138

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 07:14 PM

On saiga shotguns only the puck counts as a 922r part as that is considered the piston.

#4 G O B

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 07:48 PM

On AK's (and Saiga rifles) the gas piston is concave on the end. On Saiga shotguns the corresponding part is flat on the end and is just part of the boltcarrier. The floating puck is the piston.

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#5 7.62x39

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 08:48 AM

What I find curious is why the part that resembles the normal AK gas piston is not counted as an op rod. I'm glad it's not, but it is contrary to the ATFs normal way of looking at things. If they count a FAL charging handle as an op rod (a bit of a stretch IMHO) You would think that they would count it for sure.

#6 EchoKilo

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Posted 07 January 2009 - 09:09 AM

What I find curious is why the part that resembles the normal AK gas piston is not counted as an op rod. I'm glad it's not, but it is contrary to the ATFs normal way of looking at things. If they count a FAL charging handle as an op rod (a bit of a stretch IMHO) You would think that they would count it for sure.


Well, the obvious answer is that the regulations are a buch of cobbled together, fly by the seat of their pants, winging it, whatever the fuck we feel like today, bullshit. Just be happy they were nice enough for identify enough changeable parts that we don't have to wind up building a completely new gun around the barrel just so we can have a Saiga.

#7 jacknast76

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 01:12 PM

Does anyone know who has the US made gas pucks in stock?

#8 GimmeLiberty

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 01:20 PM

CHAOS shows them in stock.
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
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#9 sam1chlt

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 01:27 PM

I just ordered a Tapco ( us made ) gas piston from MAA, along with a Tapco stock w/ built in pistol grip and 1 us made magazine! I hope this makes me compliant???

#10 vbrtrmn

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 02:01 PM

This link has probably been posted 1000 times in the forum, here you go again.
RTFM: http://thegunwiki.co...erifyCompliance

#11 Wasabi

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 05:19 PM

I just picked up a bunch of parts including a new gas piston from blackjackbuffers.com. Excellent prices, excellent service and super fast shipping.

#12 jacknast76

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 06:29 PM

blackjack is sold out of the gas pistons, MAA still has them. Thanks guys.

I'll soon be 922r complaint when the package arrives. Freakin congress with nothing better to do.

Edited by jacknast76, 02 February 2009 - 06:35 PM.


#13 grammaton76

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 06:59 PM

On saiga shotguns only the puck counts as a 922r part as that is considered the piston.


VERY interesting! I've updated http://thegunwiki.co...erifyCompliance to reflect the existence of the puck, as well as the potential leeway for ATF to reclassify the tappet / whatnot.

#14 super jim

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 07:20 PM

and while on the subject of the puck; Does it matter which end goes in first?

#15 sam1chlt

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 08:30 PM

I second that! I have a new one coming in the mail via MAA. I saw a you tube video that looks like you just drop it in!!

#16 jacknast76

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 10:35 PM

OK so I ordered the "gas piston" from MAA. I thought it was the puck but it's the threaded rod. It clearly states Saiga 12ga/20ga GAS PISTON on the package. This is not the puck

What's the deal?

#17 jacknast76

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 10:40 PM

FROM MAA's WEBSITE. THIS IS THE ROD THAT I ORDERED>


Home :: Saiga :: Saiga 12 :: TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston
Saiga 12
Product 32/40



larger image TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston
$14.99
TAPCO Gas Piston for Saiga 12 and Saiga 20





Made in United States and counts as 1 US part for 922r compliance.



Add to Cart:

Model: SAG0701
Shipping Weight: 1lbs
38 Units in Stock
Manufactured by: Tapco

Attached Files


Edited by jacknast76, 05 February 2009 - 10:42 PM.


#18 sam1chlt

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 05:25 PM

FROM MAA's WEBSITE. THIS IS THE ROD THAT I ORDERED>


Home :: Saiga :: Saiga 12 :: TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston
Saiga 12
Product 32/40



larger image TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston
$14.99
TAPCO Gas Piston for Saiga 12 and Saiga 20





Made in United States and counts as 1 US part for 922r compliance.



Add to Cart:

Model: SAG0701
Shipping Weight: 1lbs
38 Units in Stock
Manufactured by: Tapco






I did the same thing you did! I thought this was the puck??? I got mine last week and my next question is !! How the hell you get the old piston rod off???

#19 gangsta99

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 05:51 PM

FROM MAA's WEBSITE. THIS IS THE ROD THAT I ORDERED>


Home :: Saiga :: Saiga 12 :: TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston
Saiga 12
Product 32/40



larger image TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston
$14.99
TAPCO Gas Piston for Saiga 12 and Saiga 20





Made in United States and counts as 1 US part for 922r compliance.



Add to Cart:

Model: SAG0701
Shipping Weight: 1lbs
38 Units in Stock
Manufactured by: Tapco






I did the same thing you did! I thought this was the puck??? I got mine last week and my next question is !! How the hell you get the old piston rod off???



DELETED

Edited by gangsta99, 07 February 2009 - 09:23 PM.


#20 kbailey3

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 07:38 PM

As I understand it, a piston has grooves cut into the head to accept rings.

On a AK based rifle, the piston is screwed into the bolt carrier and riveted
in place. This piston has the grooves cut into the head and counts as
the 922r part. According to the Saiga-12 factory manual, the piston is
the puck. The extension on to the Saiga-12 bolt carrier has a smooth head
and the puck has the grooves.

The ATF 922r letter, I found on this site, only lists a piston. And from what I've read
here, there's no clear cut definition, from the ATF, as to which part is considered
the piston. I don't think the solid extension, riveted to the bold carrier would
be considered an operating rod, as an op rod it typical a free-moving separate
part. Like on an SKS.

There's no telling, but I would tend to sided with the manufactures manual.
My newbie .02, kbailey3

#21 jacknast76

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 08:00 PM

I found this the other day. Dinzag Arms has the instructions on changing the rod. He also charges $50 to do it if you send it to him. Not unreasonable.

However if the puck is the piston and the rod isn't I'm just going to shelve it for a rainy day. I found some pucks at Chaos had like 9 left the other day.

Here's the link.



changing gas piston rod

#22 gangsta99

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Posted 07 February 2009 - 09:25 PM

I found this the other day. Dinzag Arms has the instructions on changing the rod. He also charges $50 to do it if you send it to him. Not unreasonable.

However if the puck is the piston and the rod isn't I'm just going to shelve it for a rainy day. I found some pucks at Chaos had like 9 left the other day.

Here's the link.



changing gas piston rod




Question for you guys also. Does your factory gas piston that is pinned to your bolt carrier move at all if you try to twist it? On the AKs that I own my gas piston is really tightly threaded in the bolt carrier and pinned on tightly with zero movement, but on my Saiga 12 shotgun I can with my hand twist the piston just a little. It is still pinned in there tightly, but is this going to become a huge problem?

Edited by gangsta99, 07 February 2009 - 11:54 PM.


#23 USMC_LB

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 12:25 AM

I found this the other day. Dinzag Arms has the instructions on changing the rod. He also charges $50 to do it if you send it to him. Not unreasonable.

However if the puck is the piston and the rod isn't I'm just going to shelve it for a rainy day. I found some pucks at Chaos had like 9 left the other day.

Here's the link.



changing gas piston rod




Now that I see this is more of a pain in the ass to replace then I thought it would be I won't be using this piston either. I will save it incase the
original one somehow is damaged or broken. I am upset that MAA lists these as counting as 1 922r part when it really looks like they don't count
for one.



Back in the day, everyone was looking to find as many 922r compliant parts as they could to replace foreign parts with.
The "puck" WAS NOT common knowledge back then. Everyone assumed the gas system for the S12 shotgun
was the same as every other AK rifle...

The idea was to do what we've been doing on AK rifle conversions and change out the "gas piston".

The S12 shotgun bolt carrier "looked" like the AK bolt carrier/gas piston setup. Several companies cranked out some
S12 gas pistons and many people here swapped them out.

BUT, after closer inspection, someone realized that the design of the gas systems between the AK rifles and the S12 shotguns were actually
different from one another.

What LOOKED like a gas piston in the S12 shotgun was actually not capable of performing the action that a gas piston has to do
(there are no grooves). What looks like a AK gas piston is nothing more than an extension of the boltcarrier. The "puck" in the
S12 DOES have grooves in it and performs the duties like that of a standard AK gas piston (that IS pinned to the bolt carrier).
The difference being the "puck" in the S12 is not pinned the the bolt carrier.

I know this doesnt help you, but it does give you some history to WHY somebody might have a "gas piston" available and not
calling it a "puck".

LB
USMC_LB
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Undeniable Truth of Life #7: "The truth should never be taken as a insult."

#24 my762buzz

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 12:50 AM

This is the gas piston


http://www.thesaigas...;products_id=29

This gas piston is for use in the gas tube of your Saiga 12. Marked U.S. and counts as a U.S. Compliant Part

* 416 Stainless Steel
* Heat treated
* Chrome Plated

Posted Image

Edited by my762buzz, 08 February 2009 - 12:53 AM.


#25 jacknast76

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Posted 08 February 2009 - 07:50 PM

Thanks for the clarification LB.

#26 D-H

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 12:10 PM

FROM MAA's WEBSITE. THIS IS THE ROD THAT I ORDERED>


Home :: Saiga :: Saiga 12 :: TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston
Saiga 12
Product 32/40



larger image TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston
$14.99
TAPCO Gas Piston for Saiga 12 and Saiga 20





Made in United States and counts as 1 US part for 922r compliance.



Add to Cart:

Model: SAG0701
Shipping Weight: 1lbs
38 Units in Stock
Manufactured by: Tapco


I bought the same part expecting it to be the puck...might send it in and have the part put on anyway because I doubt I'll be able to change it myself after checking out dinzag's method, and I paid for the part and I might as well use it. Anyone know how long it would take?

#27 jacknast76

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 05:54 PM

Dinzag would

#28 D-H

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 10:24 AM

Dinzag's $50 "gas piston install" doesn't apply to the Saiga 12 in case anyone was still wondering since because the Saiga 12 piston is actually the puck.

Now I just have to figure out what I want to do with the impostor piston I bought from MAA.

#29 7.62x39

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 02:49 PM

I think it is damn irresponsible for Tapco and/or MAA to call the bolt carrier extension a 922r countable part. It clearly is not and could end somebody up in prison. If the part was countable, it would be listed as an op rod by the ATF and it isn't. The only other way it could count was if the ATF was counting it as the piston, which would mean that the puck was not countable.

#30 sam1chlt

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 03:52 PM

MAA has corrected and they have a picture posted! I am going to keep mine just to have the part...it was cheap!




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