GimmeLiberty 0 Posted January 6, 2009 Report Share Posted January 6, 2009 Do both the floating hockey puck gas piston AND the gas piston rod count as 1 if replaced for 922R in the Saiga 12? Is the gas piston rod the same as an AK piston ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rodm1 2 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 Tag Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 On saiga shotguns only the puck counts as a 922r part as that is considered the piston. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 On AK's (and Saiga rifles) the gas piston is concave on the end. On Saiga shotguns the corresponding part is flat on the end and is just part of the boltcarrier. The floating puck is the piston. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7.62x39 0 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 What I find curious is why the part that resembles the normal AK gas piston is not counted as an op rod. I'm glad it's not, but it is contrary to the ATFs normal way of looking at things. If they count a FAL charging handle as an op rod (a bit of a stretch IMHO) You would think that they would count it for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
EchoKilo 0 Posted January 7, 2009 Report Share Posted January 7, 2009 What I find curious is why the part that resembles the normal AK gas piston is not counted as an op rod. I'm glad it's not, but it is contrary to the ATFs normal way of looking at things. If they count a FAL charging handle as an op rod (a bit of a stretch IMHO) You would think that they would count it for sure. Well, the obvious answer is that the regulations are a buch of cobbled together, fly by the seat of their pants, winging it, whatever the fuck we feel like today, bullshit. Just be happy they were nice enough for identify enough changeable parts that we don't have to wind up building a completely new gun around the barrel just so we can have a Saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacknast76 2 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 Does anyone know who has the US made gas pucks in stock? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GimmeLiberty 0 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 CHAOS shows them in stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sam1chlt 0 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I just ordered a Tapco ( us made ) gas piston from MAA, along with a Tapco stock w/ built in pistol grip and 1 us made magazine! I hope this makes me compliant??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 This link has probably been posted 1000 times in the forum, here you go again. RTFM: http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wasabi 0 Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I just picked up a bunch of parts including a new gas piston from blackjackbuffers.com. Excellent prices, excellent service and super fast shipping. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacknast76 2 Posted February 2, 2009 Report Share Posted February 2, 2009 (edited) blackjack is sold out of the gas pistons, MAA still has them. Thanks guys. I'll soon be 922r complaint when the package arrives. Freakin congress with nothing better to do. Edited February 2, 2009 by jacknast76 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grammaton76 1 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 On saiga shotguns only the puck counts as a 922r part as that is considered the piston. VERY interesting! I've updated http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSaigaVerifyCompliance to reflect the existence of the puck, as well as the potential leeway for ATF to reclassify the tappet / whatnot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
super jim 14 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 and while on the subject of the puck; Does it matter which end goes in first? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sam1chlt 0 Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 I second that! I have a new one coming in the mail via MAA. I saw a you tube video that looks like you just drop it in!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacknast76 2 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 OK so I ordered the "gas piston" from MAA. I thought it was the puck but it's the threaded rod. It clearly states Saiga 12ga/20ga GAS PISTON on the package. This is not the puck What's the deal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacknast76 2 Posted February 6, 2009 Report Share Posted February 6, 2009 (edited) FROM MAA's WEBSITE. THIS IS THE ROD THAT I ORDERED> Home :: Saiga :: Saiga 12 :: TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston Saiga 12 Product 32/40 larger image TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston $14.99 TAPCO Gas Piston for Saiga 12 and Saiga 20 Made in United States and counts as 1 US part for 922r compliance. Add to Cart: Model: SAG0701 Shipping Weight: 1lbs 38 Units in Stock Manufactured by: Tapco Edited February 6, 2009 by jacknast76 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sam1chlt 0 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 FROM MAA's WEBSITE. THIS IS THE ROD THAT I ORDERED> Home :: Saiga :: Saiga 12 :: TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston Saiga 12 Product 32/40 larger image TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston $14.99 TAPCO Gas Piston for Saiga 12 and Saiga 20 Made in United States and counts as 1 US part for 922r compliance. Add to Cart: Model: SAG0701 Shipping Weight: 1lbs 38 Units in Stock Manufactured by: Tapco I did the same thing you did! I thought this was the puck??? I got mine last week and my next question is !! How the hell you get the old piston rod off??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gangsta99 0 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 (edited) FROM MAA's WEBSITE. THIS IS THE ROD THAT I ORDERED> Home :: Saiga :: Saiga 12 :: TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston Saiga 12 Product 32/40 larger image TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston $14.99 TAPCO Gas Piston for Saiga 12 and Saiga 20 Made in United States and counts as 1 US part for 922r compliance. Add to Cart: Model: SAG0701 Shipping Weight: 1lbs 38 Units in Stock Manufactured by: Tapco I did the same thing you did! I thought this was the puck??? I got mine last week and my next question is !! How the hell you get the old piston rod off??? DELETED Edited February 8, 2009 by gangsta99 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kbailey3 0 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 As I understand it, a piston has grooves cut into the head to accept rings. On a AK based rifle, the piston is screwed into the bolt carrier and riveted in place. This piston has the grooves cut into the head and counts as the 922r part. According to the Saiga-12 factory manual, the piston is the puck. The extension on to the Saiga-12 bolt carrier has a smooth head and the puck has the grooves. The ATF 922r letter, I found on this site, only lists a piston. And from what I've read here, there's no clear cut definition, from the ATF, as to which part is considered the piston. I don't think the solid extension, riveted to the bold carrier would be considered an operating rod, as an op rod it typical a free-moving separate part. Like on an SKS. There's no telling, but I would tend to sided with the manufactures manual. My newbie .02, kbailey3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacknast76 2 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I found this the other day. Dinzag Arms has the instructions on changing the rod. He also charges $50 to do it if you send it to him. Not unreasonable. However if the puck is the piston and the rod isn't I'm just going to shelve it for a rainy day. I found some pucks at Chaos had like 9 left the other day. Here's the link. changing gas piston rod Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gangsta99 0 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) I found this the other day. Dinzag Arms has the instructions on changing the rod. He also charges $50 to do it if you send it to him. Not unreasonable. However if the puck is the piston and the rod isn't I'm just going to shelve it for a rainy day. I found some pucks at Chaos had like 9 left the other day. Here's the link. changing gas piston rod Question for you guys also. Does your factory gas piston that is pinned to your bolt carrier move at all if you try to twist it? On the AKs that I own my gas piston is really tightly threaded in the bolt carrier and pinned on tightly with zero movement, but on my Saiga 12 shotgun I can with my hand twist the piston just a little. It is still pinned in there tightly, but is this going to become a huge problem? Edited February 8, 2009 by gangsta99 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
USMC_LB 4 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 I found this the other day. Dinzag Arms has the instructions on changing the rod. He also charges $50 to do it if you send it to him. Not unreasonable. However if the puck is the piston and the rod isn't I'm just going to shelve it for a rainy day. I found some pucks at Chaos had like 9 left the other day. Here's the link. changing gas piston rod Now that I see this is more of a pain in the ass to replace then I thought it would be I won't be using this piston either. I will save it incase the original one somehow is damaged or broken. I am upset that MAA lists these as counting as 1 922r part when it really looks like they don't count for one. Back in the day, everyone was looking to find as many 922r compliant parts as they could to replace foreign parts with. The "puck" WAS NOT common knowledge back then. Everyone assumed the gas system for the S12 shotgun was the same as every other AK rifle... The idea was to do what we've been doing on AK rifle conversions and change out the "gas piston". The S12 shotgun bolt carrier "looked" like the AK bolt carrier/gas piston setup. Several companies cranked out some S12 gas pistons and many people here swapped them out. BUT, after closer inspection, someone realized that the design of the gas systems between the AK rifles and the S12 shotguns were actually different from one another. What LOOKED like a gas piston in the S12 shotgun was actually not capable of performing the action that a gas piston has to do (there are no grooves). What looks like a AK gas piston is nothing more than an extension of the boltcarrier. The "puck" in the S12 DOES have grooves in it and performs the duties like that of a standard AK gas piston (that IS pinned to the bolt carrier). The difference being the "puck" in the S12 is not pinned the the bolt carrier. I know this doesnt help you, but it does give you some history to WHY somebody might have a "gas piston" available and not calling it a "puck". LB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
my762buzz 141 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) This is the gas piston http://www.thesaigastore.com/catalog/produ...;products_id=29 This gas piston is for use in the gas tube of your Saiga 12. Marked U.S. and counts as a U.S. Compliant Part * 416 Stainless Steel * Heat treated * Chrome Plated Edited February 8, 2009 by my762buzz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacknast76 2 Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Thanks for the clarification LB. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D-H 20 Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 FROM MAA's WEBSITE. THIS IS THE ROD THAT I ORDERED> Home :: Saiga :: Saiga 12 :: TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston Saiga 12 Product 32/40 larger image TAPCO Saiga 12 & 20 Gas Piston $14.99 TAPCO Gas Piston for Saiga 12 and Saiga 20 Made in United States and counts as 1 US part for 922r compliance. Add to Cart: Model: SAG0701 Shipping Weight: 1lbs 38 Units in Stock Manufactured by: Tapco I bought the same part expecting it to be the puck...might send it in and have the part put on anyway because I doubt I'll be able to change it myself after checking out dinzag's method, and I paid for the part and I might as well use it. Anyone know how long it would take? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacknast76 2 Posted February 9, 2009 Report Share Posted February 9, 2009 Dinzag would Quote Link to post Share on other sites
D-H 20 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 Dinzag's $50 "gas piston install" doesn't apply to the Saiga 12 in case anyone was still wondering since because the Saiga 12 piston is actually the puck. Now I just have to figure out what I want to do with the impostor piston I bought from MAA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
7.62x39 0 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 I think it is damn irresponsible for Tapco and/or MAA to call the bolt carrier extension a 922r countable part. It clearly is not and could end somebody up in prison. If the part was countable, it would be listed as an op rod by the ATF and it isn't. The only other way it could count was if the ATF was counting it as the piston, which would mean that the puck was not countable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sam1chlt 0 Posted February 10, 2009 Report Share Posted February 10, 2009 MAA has corrected and they have a picture posted! I am going to keep mine just to have the part...it was cheap! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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