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jdeitch

Modification to repair FTE issues on Saigas with blocked gas ports

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I have the FTF problem on my two-porter. I decided to do this mod myself, but I am having a devil of a time getting the gas block off. I didn't have a shelf piece so I am using a small framing square. I have managed to bang up the square pretty good and the gas block has only moved a millimeter at most. It's not mentioned above, but does the rear pin (circled in red on picture) have to be removed, too? I would be grateful for any suggestions.

 

DSCN0101.jpg

Edited by phlii

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Some of you people really amaze me. It's so simple to send it back to CGW BEFORE you screw with it . It's FREE, it's FAST and it WORKS AFTER IT COMES BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by Jangles

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Some of you people really amaze me. It's so simple to send it back to CGW BEFORE you screw with it . It's FREE, it's FAST and it WORKS AFTER IT COMES BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just bought mine...fired it this weekend..upon cleaning discovered mine are blocked. I sent an e mail to CGW..No reply yet. Does anybody have a phone number?

 

How long were you without you gun from when you sent it in til you got it back?

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Some of you people really amaze me. It's so simple to send it back to CGW BEFORE you screw with it . It's FREE, it's FAST and it WORKS AFTER IT COMES BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Already modified. No longer covered.

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For those having 2-port S-12s, I would highly recommend trying the Gunfixr gas knob (now available through MD Arms). I have a 2-port S-12. When I first got it, it would only cycle high-brass shells reliably on setting 2. With the Gunfixr gas knob, it cycles all but the very lightest target loads extremely well (on setting 3; with settings 1 and 2 working like those settings on the factory gas knob).

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Some of you people really amaze me. It's so simple to send it back to CGW BEFORE you screw with it . It's FREE, it's FAST and it WORKS AFTER IT COMES BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just bought mine...fired it this weekend..upon cleaning discovered mine are blocked. I sent an e mail to CGW..No reply yet. Does anybody have a phone number?

 

How long were you without you gun from when you sent it in til you got it back?

 

 

CGW

740-942-3175

 

mine took about two weeks (it depends on how busy they are) i couldn't be happier with their work, it eats everything now:)

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This seems to have worked great for me. THe instructions were perfect and walked me through it. I am going to fire it today and will post as to how well it does! Thanks

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This seems to have worked great for me. THe instructions were perfect and walked me through it. I am going to fire it today and will post as to how well it does! Thanks

 

still not cycling. turns out my tapco operating rod warped, so hopefully when I get a new rod in this will work great!

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Some of you people really amaze me. It's so simple to send it back to CGW BEFORE you screw with it . It's FREE, it's FAST and it WORKS AFTER IT COMES BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

and what happens if the gun gets classified as an assault weapon by the big O while it is away, or what happens if you bought a conversion or modified gun ... some of you people really amaze me - thought processes that originate not in their brains, but their a-holes

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Some of you people really amaze me. It's so simple to send it back to CGW BEFORE you screw with it . It's FREE, it's FAST and it WORKS AFTER IT COMES BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

and what happens if the gun gets classified as an assault weapon by the big O while it is away, or what happens if you bought a conversion or modified gun ... some of you people really amaze me - thought processes that originate not in their brains, but their a-holes

 

 

Preexisting.

 

Unless they start CONFISCATING them, we should be OK.

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Some of you people really amaze me. It's so simple to send it back to CGW BEFORE you screw with it . It's FREE, it's FAST and it WORKS AFTER IT COMES BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

and what happens if the gun gets classified as an assault weapon by the big O while it is away, or what happens if you bought a conversion or modified gun ... some of you people really amaze me - thought processes that originate not in their brains, but their a-holes

 

what happens when you send your gun directly to the gunsmith for a warranty repair and possibly an upgrade and they ban the shit?

 

NOTHING HAPPENS.

 

You already have been transferred the gun to yourself, and it goes into the shop for servicing. This is per BATF ruling. Tom holds the warranty contract for RAAC, and is the sole provider of said services, and as such, you can legally send your gun from your house, via post, brown, fedex, whatever, directly from your house, wherever you are, straight to his shop for servicing, as the firearm is never transferred. It then goes straight back to your house when he is done with it, and anything extra that you might want done to it while he has it.

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You already have been transferred the gun to yourself, and it goes into the shop for servicing. This is per BATF ruling. Tom holds the warranty contract for RAAC, and is the sole provider of said services, and as such, you can legally send your gun from your house, via post, brown, fedex, whatever, directly from your house, wherever you are, straight to his shop for servicing, as the firearm is never transferred. It then goes straight back to your house when he is done with it, and anything extra that you might want done to it while he has it.

I was under the understanding that i could send a weapon to a FFL, but not recieve a weapon directly. I thought it would have to be sent back through a FFL where i would pick it up...

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not for a licensed gunsmith, especially one holding the warranty contract for the US importer.

 

If CGW did NOT have the warranty contract, then you would have had to buy the gun from CGW to have the same thing happen. Being the holder of the warranty contract, any saiga in need of a repair because of a factory defect, can legally go straight to CGW and then back to its home after being fixed.

 

The gun goes from your place of residence (where you paperworked your gun to when you bought it new, and whats on your DL) directly to the gunsmith for repair work (and upgrades as well) and then goes directly back to your original shipping address.

 

As the gun is never transferred, there isnt any NICS check to do, and thus doesnt have to go through an FFL for it to come back to you. This is fully compliant with federal laws, and is approved by the BATF.

 

I am sure they would have said something when they were at CGW twice in two weeks if there was some misinterpretation of the law, which there isnt.

 

If you sell someone a gun, is what you are thinking. Then it has to go over to the other person through a NICS check if going interstate, or if you are like me, and dont take people for thier word when it comes to being level about gun ownership. If an FFL sells a firearm, it is ALWAYS transferred after NICS check and paperworked.

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Some of YOU people amaze even me!

 

You come up with a bunch of bullsh*t "what ifs" even after Bvamp has provided facts to the contrary!

 

And in case some of you didn't notice, Bvamp is part of CGW!!

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Some of YOU people amaze even me!

 

You come up with a bunch of bullsh*t "what ifs" even after Bvamp has provided facts to the contrary!

 

And in case some of you didn't notice, Bvamp is part of CGW!!

 

Trust me, when it comes to technical aspects such as this, and I am speaking on behalf of the Coles and CGW, I got the facts right. I have to answer to a big man with a big hammer if I cause a fuckup on his 100% clean FFL, nevermind the verbal hammering I will get from his wife, or worse. I have motivation to get it straight.

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Some of YOU people amaze even me!

 

You come up with a bunch of bullsh*t "what ifs" even after Bvamp has provided facts to the contrary!

 

And in case some of you didn't notice, Bvamp is part of CGW!!

 

what if they re/draft the law so that it says if its not in your personal possession, it is no longer yours - big O's goal is to get as many of our toys off the streets - and what if you modified the gun - that's the type of bullsh*t i am talking about ... i guarantee you Bvamp will be legislated out of business when the government makes it move.

 

i stand by my original statements ... my suggestion is that you get off your brain and use it

 

BTW: what is wrong with you all - don't you know how to use a punch and drill press

Edited by ward00

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its not transferred, and is still your gun....what part of that dont you follow, Sir?

 

 

 

what is wrong? go ahead, drill it, if you are capable. IF YOU DRILL IT and it dont work, or if you ever have a gas problem, the gun's warranty is VOID. What part do you not get, SIR.

 

 

Some people enjoy products that have a quality assurance backing, and that stand by it. RAAC stands by this platform of firearm, and I just happen to work with the company that handles the assurance of it, here in the states. Cadiz Gun Works.

 

 

You could just mail it back to russia, and see what you get back? This was your option before, or something along the lines of this thread (which Im not saying is in error)

 

 

I apologise for my rudeness ward. You are wrong to catch shit with me over this, Sir.

 

This is a good fix, but if its not right, or it is done wrong or whatever, you are in the fuckin ocean.

 

 

VOID.

 

 

Let Tom fix it. You know, the 4th generation gunsmith? the gun prostitute? He may know a bit more than you about this simple weapon......

 

If its easy, GO FOR IT. If not, or people are not comfortable with it, whats wrong with warrantying a gun for FREE?

 

Saiga is the best buy on the gun market. PERIOD.

 

I apologize to everyone for getting rude. I honestly am insulted by some statements in this thread, and I have made an effort to control my attitude, as such.

 

Ben Vamp -

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Some of YOU people amaze even me!

 

You come up with a bunch of bullsh*t "what ifs" even after Bvamp has provided facts to the contrary!

 

And in case some of you didn't notice, Bvamp is part of CGW!!

 

what if they re/draft the law so that it says if its not in your personal possession, it is no longer yours - big O's goal is to get as many of our toys off the streets - and what if you modified the gun - that's the type of bullsh*t i am talking about ... i guarantee you Bvamp will be legislated out of business when the government makes it move.

 

i stand by my original statements ... my suggestion is that you get off your brain and use it

 

BTW: what is wrong with you all - don't you know how to use a punch and drill press

 

What if a deer knocks on you front door asking you to shot it and your gun is in the mail. :haha: ANother pointless argument.

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fuck

 

get out the trusty backup single shot? I dunno? its just one tasety animal......

 

tough crowd, here.......

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BTW: what is wrong with you all - don't you know how to use a punch and drill press

 

I know how to use both a punch and a drill press. The problem is I own neither. Not everybody has a complete metal shop in their basement. For tools I own a hammer, a screwdriver, a couple knives, a file, and now a cheap ass $30 dremel I bought the other day. I did manage to pull off a conversion with that though. Anything more, it's going to the smith.

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I just wanted to say thanks for the info on the blocked gas ports I sorta cheated cause i hate removing gas blocks not cuase I fear them just cause. Hassle but I was having problems with blocked ports I only had one hole and I Just drilled the sides down inside and cleaned it up with a dremel my first saiga 12. Now that ive got that fixed and Port and polishing every thing It eats any thing I put in it :}

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BTW: what is wrong with you all - don't you know how to use a punch and drill press

 

I know how to use both a punch and a drill press. The problem is I own neither. Not everybody has a complete metal shop in their basement. For tools I own a hammer, a screwdriver, a couple knives, a file, and now a cheap ass $30 dremel I bought the other day. I did manage to pull off a conversion with that though. Anything more, it's going to the smith.

 

 

I drilled two new holes in my barrel. It didn't take a punch nor a drill press. A simple dremel with a dremel drill bit would do it. The barrel is NOT tough metal.

 

I knew I was voiding my warranty when I did it and I don't suggest YOU do what I did. In fact, I suggest you don't do it.

 

However, what I did worked for me. Basically, I'm saying that if your warranty is already void, YOU CAN STILL GET IT DONE yourself.

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What if a deer knocks on you front door asking you to shot it and your gun is in the mail. :haha: ANother pointless argument.

IMO this argument holds the most water. :haha2:

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The Official video from Izhmash claims the tactical version of the S12 will cycle just about anything. Unfortunately, no such claim (or any claim) is made for the "sporter" version. In my experience, there are two reasons for FTE problems with S12 conversions.

 

(1) The Tapco and Tromix/Tapco versions of the FCG are not specifically made for efficient cycling in the S12. The Tromix version drops in nicely, but, like the unmodified Tapco FCG sits quite a bit higher (than the original Russian FCG) in the receiver creating resistance to efficient cycling as the bolt carrier has to work harder in both directions across the hammer. I'm not guessing here, just stating facts.

 

(2) Izhmash does not appear to pay a great deal of attention to alignment of the gas vents in relationship to the aperture meant to direct gas into the gas tube.

 

I have found that efficient cycling in an S12 conversion is a balancing act between reducing the effects of resistance from aftermarket US parts, and increasing the efficiency of the gas system. This is often different with every gun because one just never knows where one or more of the gas vents will be located in relationship to their intended location.

 

The challenge is to allow the gas vents to operate as they were intended to, and to overcome the problems created by dropping in an FCG which is not specifically optimized for operation in an S!2.

 

I have learned to address both challenges so that my builds cycle reliably with just about any type of ammo, but it remains a black art and each gun must be dealt with with respect to its unique qualities.

 

Respectfully, the single question I have for Tapco, Tromix, and Saiga is "why are you settling for half assed solutions, when you could be providing a first class, weapon specific solution from the outset?" In defense of Tromix, their trigger guard is wonderfully engineered! But Tony...why isn't the FCG as excellently engineered and executed?

 

Waffenschmied

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I looked at the conversion directions and started stripping down my Siaga 12. The reason for this is because it stovepipes on 00 Buck. Anyways, I looked and saw the 4 holes in the gas tube area were plugged with thick, black debris. I cleaned it out thinking this would solve the problem. I went out to shoot it and it still stovepipes, arghh! The guy I bought it from converted it with a friend and duracoated it as well. He says it always choaked on cheap Wal-Mart bird-shot, and that he had yet to fire any high brass with it. I did order one of those gas plug fixers, but isn't that something that works mainly with low brass? Anyways, I'm going back to the drawing board and re-clean and polish the rails, etc. I used an AGP mag, not the crappy ProMags everyone despises. Any good advice out there?

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Greetings!

 

New to the forum.

 

I have recently purchased a saiga 12 and have converted it with parts obtained from Greg @ CSS. Upon test firing with 11/8 #8s it FTEs on all 4 settings on the MD Arms gas plug. What is the recommended break in for this gun? I have been reading about the gas port mods (i have 2 unobstructed ports).

 

Any advice?

 

Thanks

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Greetings!

 

New to the forum.

 

I have recently purchased a saiga 12 and have converted it with parts obtained from Greg @ CSS. Upon test firing with 11/8 #8s it FTEs on all 4 settings on the MD Arms gas plug. What is the recommended break in for this gun? I have been reading about the gas port mods (i have 2 unobstructed ports).

 

Any advice?

 

Thanks

 

 

There are many threads addressing this, but basically it should have two "large" holes or three "small" holes. The most recently manufacturered guns all have 3-holes.

 

Is it possible that any of your holes are obstructed by the gas block itself? You have to probe around in there with a dental pick or small paper clip wire to make sure.

 

Also, be careful with the low brass ammo you use. Federal bulk pack usually gets high marks from everyone.

 

Finally - break in recommendations vary but I ran around 100 slugs through, and you can notice a clear difference in the smoothness of the slide, etc. This may be a non-issue if you really have a 2-port gun. I'm not sure if your warranty is void due to the conversion but you may want to call Cadiz and see if you can still get it covered, because that's the first thing that needs to be addressed.

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This is a great tutorial and should be stickied.

 

Nice photography!

Stucked it

Maybe you should have used better glue...

It un-stuck.

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