Modification to repair FTE issues on Saigas with blocked gas ports

[Wade Pruetz 103]

JeffD,

Thanks for the post it really made getting the gas block off a breeze!

[ROUTH20 0]

JeffD,

 

Outstanding job, I can't wait to give it a try. Thanks

[garyyoungers 0]

JeffD,

 

Thanks for this post, did mine yesterday and it came out great. Pictures were a big help.

[theplastik 67]

Just did this mod.

Awesome tutorial.

 

Everything went fine but what is this hole?

 

 

Mine is completely open and I can see through into the gas tube.

 

Is that proper or did I screw up somewhere?

 

For some reason, in my head, I'm imagining some kind of pressure valve.

 

 

Also, I didn't have the shelf bracket so I improvised and used the spine of a machete.

Equally as effective if others have had an issue finding a flat item similar.

Also, simply installing the gas plug will keep the spring and retainer from popping out during removal and will keep it stable for pin reinstertion.

Edited May 4, 2010 by theplastik

[G O B 3,516]

WTF hole is there to vent gasses after the piston has reached full cycle. Helps keep things cleaner too.

[theplastik 67]

WTF hole is there to vent gasses after the piston has reached full cycle. Helps keep things cleaner too.

 

Thanks man. Appreciate the quick response.

[wildnv 0]

Thank you, Well my saiga 12 (3 port) did not work good out of the box. It would not eject a single spent round.

 

After the enlargement of the gas block hole and enlarging the ports to .09 inch the shells ejects every time.

[12 Guage Ninja 1]

I had no gas block covering issues but i did have fte a few times before and alot after i did my conversion.I did this mod and used a brass wedge instead of the shelf thingies. according to other threads 3 hole guns are supposed to be 3/32 or 0.090. I added a fourth hole instead of opening up the origainal 3 because i like the idea of 4 small holes instead of 3 big ones and the 3 holes were smaller than 3/32 . the original holes i think were 5/64 but i couldnt get a 3/32 to fit in. the barrel metal is not that tuff and i used a cordless drill.and a black and decker bit. very easy to do(just use a punch to get started)and drill at the same angle as the other holes..

i dont know the cause of my fte... could be bolt and hammer needed polished. i polished it too.. i am also using a gunfixers gas plug and a twister puck with original 5 round mag.and have changed out the forend with a tapco forend that is vented wit tri-rails. the original forend covered up the vent hole on the side of the gas block,and the new one does not. so this may be a problem too. i will find out today if all these mods work in cycling low brass remington and federal 7 1/2 wally brand loads. if it does not i will put the original forend on and see if it is the vent hole on the side causing all the problems. look here for drill sizes to help pick the right bit .drill size chart.

Edited May 23, 2010 by 12 Guage Ninja

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Well.... here is how I get my blocks off. The 'lug' where the handguard screw attaches just seems like a natural place to apply force to, to me. I use a chisel handle wrapped in electrical tape. Works like a charm and makes a very minimal mark as long as you put enough tape on the chisel. When replacing the gas block, I apply a light coat of moly grease to the inside of the gas block and the surface on which it goes. In the pic, the rifle is laying on my bench. I actually do this with it supported muzzle down in my Wilton rotating jaw vise.

 

Edited May 23, 2010 by evlblkwpnz

[Tram 11]

Nice thread..

[A-Rob 2]

It only took me 45 minutes to get the block off of mine, drill the ports out with a 3/32 bit and get it back together EXCEPT for getting one of the pins out. Like others on here I ruined 2 punches in no time and the stubborn pin barely moved. Here's my tip: Get an Enderes Tools brand forged punch. I found mine at True Value and it didn't bend in the slightest and the pin was out in 30 seconds. It was around $4.00 and saved me from a lot of frustration. The punches at the big chain stores seem to be junk.

 

I test fired it today and it functioned flawlessly with value pack target loads. Before drilling the ports I could not get even one successful ejection. The bolt wouldn't even cycle enough to cause a stove pipe.

[deputydog95 1]

I looked today and I have a 3 port gun.

 

One port is dead center, and the other two are very close to the edge of the gas block towards the muzzle. I originally couldn't see the other two until I ran a paper clip around and it hooked into the holes. Moving the flashlight around I finally spotted them. They are literally right on the edge. I guess it doesn't matter though as long as they are in the gas block "hole".

 

Anyway, these ports are super small. They appear to be larger at the opening and then get very small as they go down towards the barrel. So small that I can't get a small paper clip in there. I would have though it would have been an even hole all the way through to the barrel. Is that normal? Also, I thought it odd that when I shined a flashlight into the gas block I could not see light in the barrel. The gun seems to cycle pretty well on setting 2 with walmart ammo so I'm not freaking out about this.

[bigdog6421 2]

Team,

 

I did this mod today, and it went very well. Thank you to all who have contributed. I used this mod as a starting point, and enlarged my 3 ports to the proper size, unclogged steel shavings from 2 of the ports, and lapped the inside of the barrel where the ports are ans shavings were protruding. It all went so well, I polished the bolt, carrier and hammer with a polishing wheel and compound on the grinder while I was at it. I still need to do the rails and other mating serfaces, but all in all, huge success. No matter if your Saiga is functioning well or not, check it out, and do this if in question at all. To all considering this: take your time, listen to the tips and tutorials, but most of all, DO IT!

[Arnisandyz 0]

The upper retaining pin (Between the gas tube and the barrel)

Had question about this. On my 20 gauge, it looks like the pin can only come out and go in one way? It doesn't go all the way through the center of the gas block like the other pins? How do I get this one out?

TIA!

[jl_907 0]

Thanks for the info, I am new here and this mod made all the difference for cycling my shell's.

Thanks jiml

[TARE 47]

I just completed my conversion to a pistol grip before I test shot, I don't know who suggested that, but that was the route I went because many people said after you convert it you'll have different issues to address. I had inspected the gas ports and saw two open and a half blocked port and figured that was good (Serial # starting with H084). After the conversion and some polishing on the interiors I found that it didn't cycle 1 1/8 oz federal target, it dosn't even eject the fired shell, so basically its a mag fed bolt action with that ammo on setting "2", as for setting number one, the cheap brown box 00buck winchester shot five of five rounds out of the factory 5 rounder, but the last round stuck in the chamber in a semi stovepipical manner. So from this I have some observations and some questions:

 

Observation: If you get a SAIGA test it before converting to see any gas issues, then do the conversion after you know its not needing a trip to a RRA authorized warranty repair man.

 

Observation 2: It seems that many people have decided to correct an undergassed gun by way of adding or reaming out ports (often times incorrectly), whereas what seems to be an ideal solution and maybe easier is to alter the block instead of the barrel.

 

Q: What benefits are there to adding new gas ports to a three port system that is partailly covered

 

Q: I thought the correct number of gas ports was three, and more could lead to overgassing and as a result, rifle battering. I guess I'm partially wrong and they correct configuration is either 3 or 4, is that correct?

 

Q: Cutting the gas block back to reveal covered holes doesn't cause any known issues with the systems ability to keep the gasses within the gas tube, i.e. if done correctly there is no risk of gas escaping out the front of the block where after the adjustment less metal is there to seal the area?

 

Q: Does something like the standard twister puck help correct an undergassed system, or can it contribute to problems.

[wired 27]

Opened up mine today. 3@.093. That wasn't any fun. I didnt think that lower pin would ever move. Broke 3 punches before I ground a super short starter punch. That was the ticket. Got me one of them fancy gas regulating plugs on the way . Maybe now It'll run whatever I throw at it.

[lvjeffro 30]

tag so i can find this when i need it...

[Tram 11]

Ok guys..

 

Had a little bit of time to mess with the guns today.. They are both doing the same thing..

 

I spun the gas selector all the way in and backed them both out to "1 click." Setting 1..

 

Threw in some buck shot and they both cycled it beautifully.. Bang with each pull of the trigger..

 

Loaded up the mag with some Federal bulk - low brass.. Bang.. and then they do their best bolt action impression..

 

Soo.. spin the gas selector out to the next "click." Setting 2.. Bang.. stovepipe..

 

So.. I'm seriously thinking about drilling the ports out to 3/32.. I don't mind breaking them down and doing this.. However, what does worry me is that I may wind up overgassed..

 

Anyone with some critique?

[Paulyski 2,227]

3 @ 3/32 will do wonders & doesn't over gas. 4 @ 3/32 will in fact overgass.

 

If you can fire low brass on setting #1 of the factory plug, your gun is overgassed. I don't care how much you think you know about the platform. (not directed at you tram. There's just a knowitall here that refuses to take reality in.)

[Battosaii 99]

good write up but try as i may i could not get the gas block to budge at all did not move a single millimeter i will have to wait until i have access to a press unless someone else has a good idea.

[Spartacus 1,619]

good write up but try as i may i could not get the gas block to budge at all did not move a single millimeter i will have to wait until i have access to a press unless someone else has a good idea.

 

Make sure you have both pins out.

 

I couldn't get mine to budge on the first try either. My problem was not using heavy enough tools for the job, I was using a block of wood and a regular light claw hammer. Then I went out and bought a 3 pound hammer and a heavy brass door hinge (get a brass drift if you can find one). I knew that was going to work by the way the house was shaking when I started whacking away with the heavier hammer.

 

Use some lube on the barrel when you put it back together. A rubber mallet is handy for gas block alignment adjustments.

[ewoketeer 35]

Not to sound like a buttinski, I wonder if if might be a good idea to put a very small longitudinal/vertical scribe mark on the barrel and gas block to assist with vertical alignment. I used a similar mark setup to determine the true twist on one of my rifles(the marks were on the cleaning rod, however...). Just an idea

[cvhanh20 1,052]

Great jobs!

[Battosaii 99]

good write up but try as i may i could not get the gas block to budge at all did not move a single millimeter i will have to wait until i have access to a press unless someone else has a good idea.

 

Make sure you have both pins out.

 

I couldn't get mine to budge on the first try either. My problem was not using heavy enough tools for the job, I was using a block of wood and a regular light claw hammer. Then I went out and bought a 3 pound hammer and a heavy brass door hinge (get a brass drift if you can find one). I knew that was going to work by the way the house was shaking when I started whacking away with the heavier hammer.

 

Use some lube on the barrel when you put it back together. A rubber mallet is handy for gas block alignment adjustments.

 

i was using a 32oz hammer and shelf brakets. im a big guy 6'8" 300lbs i was hitting that thing with all my might even broke the wood that the barrel was sitting on and bent all my hinges and it wouldnt budge and yes i had both pins out

[Spartacus 1,619]

Somebody suggested an air impact hammer in another thread.

Otherwise it sounds like you are right, time to find a press.

[psl sniper 963]

good write up but try as i may i could not get the gas block to budge at all did not move a single millimeter i will have to wait until i have access to a press unless someone else has a good idea.

 

Make sure you have both pins out.

 

I couldn't get mine to budge on the first try either. My problem was not using heavy enough tools for the job, I was using a block of wood and a regular light claw hammer. Then I went out and bought a 3 pound hammer and a heavy brass door hinge (get a brass drift if you can find one). I knew that was going to work by the way the house was shaking when I started whacking away with the heavier hammer.

 

Use some lube on the barrel when you put it back together. A rubber mallet is handy for gas block alignment adjustments.

 

i was using a 32oz hammer and shelf brakets. im a big guy 6'8" 300lbs i was hitting that thing with all my might even broke the wood that the barrel was sitting on and bent all my hinges and it wouldnt budge and yes i had both pins out

had a similar issue with my father in laws s12. took me 2 damn hours to knock it off. mine was cake in comparison. i finally had to put the barrel over a concrete slap covered in ply wood, then used an old file in place of the shelf material. had to switch to a 1 lb sledge. once it came off everything else was cake. went back on easy.

[Battosaii 99]

well i have a 40ton press at work but i cant just waltz in with a 12 gauge lol

 

anyway i bought a 12 ton press from Harbor Frieght last night so hopefully that will be enough im going to try it out today

[Battosaii 99]

well after using the press i think i officially give up.

 

the gas block will not come off i put so much pressure with the press that there was a noticable bend in the barrel that went away as soon as i let off on the press.

 

i give up.

[Fumes 84]

well after using the press i think i officially give up.

 

the gas block will not come off i put so much pressure with the press that there was a noticable bend in the barrel that went away as soon as i let off on the press.

 

i give up.