simmonsguns 0 Posted October 1, 2011 Report Share Posted October 1, 2011 I have one comming in to my shop this week with this problem, i will follow your instruction. i did my first conversion last week on a saiga-12, a box full of parts and other gunsmiths looking at me. we do custom trap and skeet guns so having one of these gems was a welcome change. it did not take long to do what was needed and it looked good. i did have a problem with FTE on light loads, mostly some remmington stuff, the saiga worked nicely on federal high brass field loads though. i want to do more of these, we can cut the barrels down but the papper work is a pita. but if one comes in with paper work in hand i want to do a short barreled shotgun conversion on these. thanks for the great sight and info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DeerSlayer7600 20 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Just did this to my gun today. Your instructions were a huge help! Everything went cleanly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Good to hear, DeerSlayer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsives 0 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 In the process of this mod. originally, I could only see 2 gas port holes. Now that disassembled, I have 4. You have filed the gas block to a "D" shape to access the covered port holes, why not just drill the barrel port larger? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsives 0 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry, I had that backwards. Why couldn't I just drill the gas block hole bigger to have access to all 4 barrel ports (instead of shaping like a "D"). I would only be making that hole larger by 3/32 of an inches or approximately the same size as the access hole in the bottom of the gas block. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry, I had that backwards. Why couldn't I just drill the gas block hole bigger to have access to all 4 barrel ports (instead of shaping like a "D"). I would only be making that hole larger by 3/32 of an inches or approximately the same size as the access hole in the bottom of the gas block. Each case is going to be a little different.... whatever works in your case is fine. I think the original "D" shape came about because that's what it looked like when the OP modified his gas block to uncover the obstructed gas ports. Nothing magical about the D shape. You want to avoid getting into the threaded portion of the gas block though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsives 0 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry, I had that backwards. Why couldn't I just drill the gas block hole bigger to have access to all 4 barrel ports (instead of shaping like a "D"). I would only be making that hole larger by 3/32 of an inches or approximately the same size as the access hole in the bottom of the gas block. Each case is going to be a little different.... whatever works in your case is fine. I think the original "D" shape came about because that's what it looked like when the OP modified his gas block to uncover the obstructed gas ports. Nothing magical about the D shape. You want to avoid getting into the threaded portion of the gas block though. Thanks....I just went ahead and drilled the largest hole that would fit through the existing access hole in the gas block. When I reassembled, 2 of the 4 gas vents where still partially blocked (not aligned), so I just used a dremel tool with a metal cutting bit to make the gas block hole ob-longed to make all 4 gas vent holes open to the gas block. Of course I de-burred and polished all areas where I cut or drilled metal. Reassembled and is shooting winchester low noise, low recoil just fine. Oh, I also installed the saiga 12 "reliability kit" from Carolina Shooters supply (contains a gas puck, lighter spring and an up-graded gas adjustment knob). Thanks again, Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rsives 0 Posted January 23, 2012 Report Share Posted January 23, 2012 Uhh...got the dreaded bottom pin that won't budge. The top pin came out easily. Does anyone have any other tips other than get a forged punch? I did break my punch but it still has a good nub at the bottom which I am using in conjunction with a big rubber mallet. I even drilled a small depression in the pin in order to help keep the punch centered, as well as punching from both sides. No go. I broke my gunsmith brass punch also. I found the a carpenters nail set worked like a charm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
towerofpower93 22 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 tag Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philman 8 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Just wanted to say a big thanks for the tutorial. I just purchased my S12 about a month ago. My gun was manufactured in Oct 2011 and was imported by USSG. My issue was that I could shoot Slugs and 00 buck but could not shoot the low power stuff no matter how far out the plug was. I checked my ports and could only see 2 with a third that was partially blocked by the gas block. After seeing this mod I decided to try it. Got the gas block off and saw that my gun acutally had 4 ports. 1 of which was totally covered. I slowly filed the opening so all 4 ports are now visible and reassembled the gun. I plan on sneaking out at some point this week and trying it out with some of the winchester bulk stuff. Thanks again to JeffD for the excellent tutorial. Edited January 30, 2012 by philman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philman 8 Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Just wanted to say a big thanks for the tutorial. I just purchased my S12 about a month ago. My gun was manufactured in Oct 2011 and was imported by USSG. My issue was that I could shoot Slugs and 00 buck but could not shoot the low power stuff no matter how far out the plug was. I checked my ports and could only see 2 with a third that was partially blocked by the gas block. After seeing this mod I decided to try it. Got the gas block off and saw that my gun acutally had 4 ports. 1 of which was totally covered. I slowly filed the opening so all 4 ports are now visible and reassembled the gun. I plan on sneaking out at some point this week and trying it out with some of the winchester bulk stuff. Thanks again to JeffD for the excellent tutorial. Ok so went to the range and it seems as though this didn't work for me. First 2 shots with winchester bulk went fine, but then every round either stove piped or stayed in the chamber. The universal stuff didn't even move the bolt back. I have 4 ports completely visible. I had the plug as far out as possible while still being locked into the detent so I'm not sure what the issue is. I have a css performance puck and the Auto Plug coming this week. I plan on polishing the bolt as a next step. This gun is unconverted although I have added some cosmetic stuff like a Tapco collapsible stock and utg quad rail. Anyone have any ideas? Anyone try this MOD and still have issues? I think 4 ports is enough and although I didn't drill the current holes they looked to be free and clear. If I have time I will post some pics later. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
robfromga 39 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 You had the gas plug screwed out? Screw it ALL the way in, then back out to the setting. Turning it past the 1st two spots opens the chamber, allowing more space, moving the piston less. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thanks for the write up. Already converted, polished, and had not fired before restoring. Had a few FTE with low brass with both the stock plug and TAC47 auto plug. Took the gun home and the block came off easy. Found the ports way under 3/32. so drilled, and filed the D block. Took less then a hour following your tips. Im very comfident the gun will run 100 % with low brass the next range trip. To capture the pin spring, tape it before removing the retainer pin. Frees up your hand to help hold the punch, and the spring will stay in place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philman 8 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 You had the gas plug screwed out? Screw it ALL the way in, then back out to the setting. Turning it past the 1st two spots opens the chamber, allowing more space, moving the piston less. I only screwed it out further after having it screwed all the way in, then adjusting it out to the number 2 setting for light loads. I then tried screwing it out a little further thinking this would allow more gas in the chamber. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 >>utg quad rail These have been known to cause problems, they can put pressure on the gas tube and cause the OP-Rod to hang up. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philman 8 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thanks - >>utg quad rail These have been known to cause problems, they can put pressure on the gas tube and cause the OP-Rod to hang up. Thanks I will try removing the quad rail and give it a try. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philman 8 Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 I tried taking the quad rail off and still had issue. I then broke the gun down again and measured the 4 ports. All were smaller than 3/32. I decided to open them up to 3/32. The holes were in a diamond pattern I left the top and bottom of the diamond at 3/32 and then opened up the side 2 to 5/64. I then polished the bottom of the bolt carrier, the hammer and cleaned up and lubricated the rails. There was a gun show here locally and I picked up a 10 rd Pro Mag. I had to clean it up with a dremel to get it to lock correctly. I picked up some new hex cap bolts for the quad rail that were a little longer and didn't need to be tightened as much. I took it to the range and then with some Federal 2/34 bulk and some Winchester 3" super target. Started off with the Federal and had an instant FTE out of the 10 rd Pro Mag. Decided to try the factory 5 round and had 1 FTE on the last of 5 rounds. Reloaded the 5 rounder and this time it went bang all 5 times without issue. Repeated this a few times with no FTE's. I then decided to go back to 10 rounder. Had 1 FTE on the first round and all other rounds fired without issue. Tested loading the mag with an open bolt and this time had no FTE's. It seems that if I have the bolt open for the ProMag when inserting it I don't have issues. All in all I ran through about 200 rounds. I ran a mix of Super Target and Federal without issue. I found a box of Winchester Universal in the the bottom of my Ammo can after I got home so I will probably try that next time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bagels 10 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 Well, aparently the too few and obstructed hole problem is still alive an well. Picked up my Saiga last week and it fails to cycle. I was shooting light loads and will try others to see if the work. As I can only see one none obstructed hole and do not want to break this thing apart beyond cleaning. If it does continue to be a problem I may run some abrasive string through the hole to expand it - silghtly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
philman 8 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 It's quite easy to take apart and fix. After a little work mine is cycling like a dream. I went out today and shot 2 boxes of Winchester bulk ammo with not one FTE. I would definitely suggest doing it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macaholic 5 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Well, aparently the too few and obstructed hole problem is still alive an well. Picked up my Saiga last week and it fails to cycle. I was shooting light loads and will try others to see if the work. As I can only see one none obstructed hole and do not want to break this thing apart beyond cleaning. If it does continue to be a problem I may run some abrasive string through the hole to expand it - silghtly. Take the gas block off and open up the access hole with a one size larger drill bit. I believe it's 11/32. Or, you can use a rat-tail file but don't enlarge the gas holes unless you have to. I did this with my newest 2011 S-12 and it runs 100% 2-3/4 bird shot with four gas ports at .063. Just open up the hole in the gas block first and make sure all of your gas ports are free of any gunk from the factory. I know it sucks that these Jerk-offs at the Izhmash plant can't seem to pull their heads out of their asses on this gas-block/gas-port issue, but the good news is that we know how to fix it. Edited February 13, 2012 by macaholic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bagels 10 Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 As I was about to preform this modification, having FTEs with light loads and seeing without a light only one visible hole in the gas black (two partially covered are seen with a flashlight). Then it occurred to me that rather than go through this somewhat lengthy procedure to simple expand the visible hole. Brilliant or Stupid ?, maybe neither. I took my dremel and put on a 2.5" long 1/16" drill bill and with only the "gas regulator plug" and "gas puck/piston" removed, at the angel available, widened the hole slightly. Next day, loaded the light load shells that had failed eject and it worked perfectly. By no means am I a gun smith, Nor am I qualified to make such a recommendation and I do not. My one concern is that shot especially given now re-profiled angel of the hole) could potentially find its way into the gas block which after several boxes has not happened. If a port is reachable with a dremel, is these some reason that doing this is not something that should be done ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
YOT 3,743 Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Well, if you're speaking about your ports, now you have a reverse angle that will definitively allow much more shot reside to enter the gas block. The ports are angled in, toward the muzzle to prevent that. Good luck with that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vicdoc 38 Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Yes, the ports are angled as shown, before any modification to my ports. There is a reason they drill them this way, I think it reduces the shaving by the edges of the holes. Edited February 16, 2012 by vicdoc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bagels 10 Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Well, if you're speaking about your ports, now you have a reverse angle that will definitively allow much more shot reside to enter the gas block. The ports are angled in, toward the muzzle to prevent that. Good luck with that. Thanks, maybe I will be lucky. So far it works great and while there is carbon, there are no loose bits of other material collecting. Maybe some will with other shells or it will require more frequent cleaning...possibly only time will tell. If it fails I will share why. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macaholic 5 Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Well, aparently the too few and obstructed hole problem is still alive an well. Picked up my Saiga last week and it fails to cycle. I was shooting light loads and will try others to see if the work. As I can only see one none obstructed hole and do not want to break this thing apart beyond cleaning. If it does continue to be a problem I may run some abrasive string through the hole to expand it - silghtly. Take the gas block off and open up the access hole with a one size larger drill bit. I believe it's 11/32. Or, you can use a rat-tail file but don't enlarge the gas holes unless you have to. I did this with my newest 2011 S-12 and it runs 100% 2-3/4 bird shot with four gas ports at .063. Just open up the hole in the gas block first and make sure all of your gas ports are free of any gunk from the factory. I know it sucks that these Jerk-offs at the Izhmash plant can't seem to pull their heads out of their asses on this gas-block/gas-port issue, but the good news is that we know how to fix it. I want to make a correction on the size drill bit I used to open up the gas block hole. It's 5/16 not 11/32. Sorry about the f%ck up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macaholic 5 Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Just wanted to say a big thanks for the tutorial. I just purchased my S12 about a month ago. My gun was manufactured in Oct 2011 and was imported by USSG. My issue was that I could shoot Slugs and 00 buck but could not shoot the low power stuff no matter how far out the plug was. I checked my ports and could only see 2 with a third that was partially blocked by the gas block. After seeing this mod I decided to try it. Got the gas block off and saw that my gun acutally had 4 ports. 1 of which was totally covered. I slowly filed the opening so all 4 ports are now visible and reassembled the gun. I plan on sneaking out at some point this week and trying it out with some of the winchester bulk stuff. Thanks again to JeffD for the excellent tutorial. Ok so went to the range and it seems as though this didn't work for me. First 2 shots with winchester bulk went fine, but then every round either stove piped or stayed in the chamber. The universal stuff didn't even move the bolt back. I have 4 ports completely visible. I had the plug as far out as possible while still being locked into the detent so I'm not sure what the issue is. I have a css performance puck and the Auto Plug coming this week. I plan on polishing the bolt as a next step. This gun is unconverted although I have added some cosmetic stuff like a Tapco collapsible stock and utg quad rail. Anyone have any ideas? Anyone try this MOD and still have issues? I think 4 ports is enough and although I didn't drill the current holes they looked to be free and clear. If I have time I will post some pics later. I have an unconverted 2011 with four .063 gas ports. I too opened the gas block hole and I used a 5/16 drill bit followed up with a rat-tail file. The gun runs like a champ. Edited February 21, 2012 by macaholic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guns Are Great 140 Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 I know this is an older thread, but it is one of the most useful threads for fixing FTE's on the forum! I fixed mine with this thread. I wished I had seen it and used the information before wasting money on other things. Alittle gas port adjustment with everyday tools and polishing the FCG, Bolt, and Carrier and wow! what a difference! Then either the v-plug or auto plug for convience and you have a fabulous firearm. Thanks for taking the time to help folks with your great tutorial! this thread and the videos from Carolina Shooters Supply for conversions need to be extremely highlightled in the forum for easy access. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sass_kevin 2 Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Awesome pics and great mod. I wish i found this when i did mine but I did mine a little different. Very well done!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Hello Not exactly relevant to the gas port issue, but two of my S12's developed very erratic cycling after I added HK sights to them. Turned out the chambers that house the gas plugs had warped slightly from the TIG welding, and when the plugs rotated a certain way, they would bind and the weapon would not cycle. I was able to remove the offending areas with a long "pencil grinder" bit in an air grinder. Just thought I'd mention..... -guido in Houston "God Loves Liberty" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nitukamots 19 Posted April 16, 2012 Report Share Posted April 16, 2012 I have had my s12 for a short time now, have been out to shoot it once with some 180 rounds with 130 being 00 buck and slug. then changed to low brass Remington #8, to my supprise it shot the low brass pretty good unless the weapon was shot from the hip. I have read many posts on FTE and after reading this one I started looking at my ports, I could see 3 with one close to the edge of the gas block hole from what I could see, decided to trully look it over by pulling the gas block off. With a 90 dgree scribe I carefully marked the gas block hole opening onto the barrel and removed the block. Much to my supprise when I looked at the barrel, the gun is NOT a 3 port, but is actually a 4 port with the port closest to the muzzel being covered by the block. After examining my scribe mark of where the gas block hole rests I discovered the port on the ejector side was covered 30% by the block, I could not see this before removal. I used the scribe mark and measured how much material had to be removed to expose each port and transfered that to the gas block. 4 ports now fully exposed.....off to the range in the morning. will do follow-up report. Good article and pics Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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