Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 13 votes

Modification to repair FTE issues on Saigas with blocked gas ports


  • Please log in to reply
274 replies to this topic

#31 Maverick223

Maverick223

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntersville, N.C.

Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:43 PM

I need to add gas ports ,How hard is the barrel to drill and did you mess the finish up any. Thanks


This mod can be done without harming the finish of the gun. Be careful. Protect the gun where necessary with masking tape, etc. if you feel the need.

Why do you NEED to add gas ports?

Even if you only have a two port gun it should cycle ALL ammo types according to RAAC.

Are the ports unobstructed and clean? If your gun has not yet been converted, check with RAAC about getting it repaired/replaced by them. If you want to repair your own gun, I would consider enlarging your existing gas ports SLIGHTLY before attempting to drill another hole in the barrel. Drilling a hole into the barrel may be difficult to perform for the average Joe sucessfully with hand tools. (Have you ever tried drilling a hole into a cylinder... On a precise angle... In an exact location... Into tuff steel?)


In regards to enlarging the hole, I don't believe I would go that far, if you go too large it may allow small pellets to jam in the holes (just speculating). I chose to drill an additional two holes in my S-12 directly behind the two partially obstructed ones. However, I did use a drill press, use cutting oil, and take my time while drilling. If that modification does not completely remediate the issue with FTE I will try your solution. Nice tutorial; Mav.
Life is ironic, you start out at a job where you can't afford the toys you want to play with; then you get a well-paying job where you don't have the time to play with the toys; then you get old and physically can't play with the toys that you have acquired over the years of toil.

#32 Maverick223

Maverick223

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntersville, N.C.

Posted 14 January 2009 - 09:57 PM

Wow, i'm "that guy"...the one that makes the thread an additional page...lol :P
Life is ironic, you start out at a job where you can't afford the toys you want to play with; then you get a well-paying job where you don't have the time to play with the toys; then you get old and physically can't play with the toys that you have acquired over the years of toil.

#33 JeffD

JeffD

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPip
  • 207 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern Nevada

Posted 15 January 2009 - 01:00 PM

I need to add gas ports ,How hard is the barrel to drill and did you mess the finish up any. Thanks


This mod can be done without harming the finish of the gun. Be careful. Protect the gun where necessary with masking tape, etc. if you feel the need.

Why do you NEED to add gas ports?

Even if you only have a two port gun it should cycle ALL ammo types according to RAAC.

Are the ports unobstructed and clean? If your gun has not yet been converted, check with RAAC about getting it repaired/replaced by them. If you want to repair your own gun, I would consider enlarging your existing gas ports SLIGHTLY before attempting to drill another hole in the barrel. Drilling a hole into the barrel may be difficult to perform for the average Joe sucessfully with hand tools. (Have you ever tried drilling a hole into a cylinder... On a precise angle... In an exact location... Into tuff steel?)


In regards to enlarging the hole, I don't believe I would go that far, if you go too large it may allow small pellets to jam in the holes (just speculating). I chose to drill an additional two holes in my S-12 directly behind the two partially obstructed ones. However, I did use a drill press, use cutting oil, and take my time while drilling. If that modification does not completely remediate the issue with FTE I will try your solution. Nice tutorial; Mav.


It is for this reason the holes are drilled on an angle. A pellet would have to be traveling backwards (From the muzzle towards the breech) to get caught. I ASSUME you matched the angle of the existing holes?

JD

PS You ARE the 2nd page guy! ;)
If you can't be good... Be GOOD at it!

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

#34 Bounce12

Bounce12

    Your mortgage and your health care are NOT our problem!

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,882 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 January 2009 - 07:56 PM

OK JeffD, here's the deal....

I had one with the blocked ports. I had major FTE problems

I sent it back in.

They gave me a new one with three holes.

I STILL had FTE problems. Every single round stovepiped. Every single one. That included using high brass on the #2 setting. AND, I even unscrewed the plug a couple of times and THEN put it on #2.

I am not going to send this back to RAAM again. Screw it, I will take the bull by the horns and do it myself.

So, I did the mod exactly as you describe here - thanks again for a great primer.

I had no problems. Not ONLY did I file the housing, but I enlarged the existing three holes by two of the smaller drill sizes. I'm not sure exactly what size I ended up with but they're a little bigger.

I also polished the shit out of all the places as described in another post. It works smoothly. It's nice.

OK, I took it out again and still get FTE at least two times out of five (this is high brass on the #2 setting!). The final round always stovepipes.

It's definitely better, but it's still not right.

So, I am planning on taking it apart again tomorrow and drilling a new hole (do I dare do two?).

Do you have any hints for me on exactly how to go about doing that?

I have a punch. Do I punch it and then slowly drill it?

I understand the angle. I'm just not sure how to get the hole started.
This post is being monitored by agencies of the US Federal Government

#35 Bounce12

Bounce12

    Your mortgage and your health care are NOT our problem!

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,882 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 16 January 2009 - 11:45 PM

OK, for better or for worse, it's done.

I took it apart again and added two holes.

I now have 5 and they're arranged in the shape of a square with one in the middle.

I'll try it again tomorrow.

Edited by Bounce12, 16 January 2009 - 11:47 PM.

This post is being monitored by agencies of the US Federal Government

#36 Bounce12

Bounce12

    Your mortgage and your health care are NOT our problem!

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,882 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 17 January 2009 - 09:03 PM

OK, here's my range report...

I shot 100 rounds of low brass and 100 rounds of high brass. 200 rounds was all I could take - I was DONE at that point.

Considering I now have five ports, I started off on the #1 setting with the low brass. I stayed on the #1 setting all day.

I had three total FTE out of the first 25 rounds.

After that, I had no more FTE the entire day.

After 100 rounds of low brass, I switched to high brass - still on setting #1. They were fine - no problems at all.

After shooting, I opened it up and looked at the back. The back of the firing pin mechanism is hitting the back plate. It's leaving an impression, but it wasn't enough to break through the paint and the back of the firing pin mechanism isn't deformed at all.

I hope that's pretty normal. The picture makes it LOOK a little worse than it really is.

Here is a photo looking backwards. See the round impression? Does that look normal after 200 rounds?

Posted Image

Looking the other way:

Posted Image
This post is being monitored by agencies of the US Federal Government

#37 Maverick223

Maverick223

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntersville, N.C.

Posted 18 January 2009 - 02:00 PM

I need to add gas ports ,How hard is the barrel to drill and did you mess the finish up any. Thanks


This mod can be done without harming the finish of the gun. Be careful. Protect the gun where necessary with masking tape, etc. if you feel the need.

Why do you NEED to add gas ports?

Even if you only have a two port gun it should cycle ALL ammo types according to RAAC.

Are the ports unobstructed and clean? If your gun has not yet been converted, check with RAAC about getting it repaired/replaced by them. If you want to repair your own gun, I would consider enlarging your existing gas ports SLIGHTLY before attempting to drill another hole in the barrel. Drilling a hole into the barrel may be difficult to perform for the average Joe sucessfully with hand tools. (Have you ever tried drilling a hole into a cylinder... On a precise angle... In an exact location... Into tuff steel?)


In regards to enlarging the hole, I don't believe I would go that far, if you go too large it may allow small pellets to jam in the holes (just speculating). I chose to drill an additional two holes in my S-12 directly behind the two partially obstructed ones. However, I did use a drill press, use cutting oil, and take my time while drilling. If that modification does not completely remediate the issue with FTE I will try your solution. Nice tutorial; Mav.


It is for this reason the holes are drilled on an angle. A pellet would have to be traveling backwards (From the muzzle towards the breech) to get caught. I ASSUME you matched the angle of the existing holes?

JD

PS You ARE the 2nd page guy! ;)


If you drill it too big I think a rogue pellet may ricochet into the block though...but the hole should never be that BIG. :oops: Really a non issue for me and many others since I use shells with shot cups.

As far as drilling it yourself, I didn't use a punch, just went very slow with my drill-press with a very small bit then enlarge. For the alignment of the holes I clamped the gun in a cross-sliding vise and just moved it over for the second hole. I would not recommend doing this without a drill press, as drilling a cylinder at an angle into hard stock is pretty difficult. I would recommend taking it to a trusted machine shop or gunsmith. I had to get a smith to remove my gas block because I haven't a hydraulic press, and my gas block was extremely tight. Best of luck, Mav. :up:
Life is ironic, you start out at a job where you can't afford the toys you want to play with; then you get a well-paying job where you don't have the time to play with the toys; then you get old and physically can't play with the toys that you have acquired over the years of toil.

#38 vbrtrmn

vbrtrmn

    Citizen

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,888 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Virginia

Posted 20 January 2009 - 05:36 PM

After shooting, I opened it up and looked at the back. The back of the firing pin mechanism is hitting the back plate. It's leaving an impression, but it wasn't enough to break through the paint and the back of the firing pin mechanism isn't deformed at all.


Congrats on fixing your shooter Bounce12, Cobra sells a modification to fix the bolt smacking problem, check out this thread..
http://forum.saiga-1...showtopic=33224

Also, thanks to JeffD for posting this information! I don't have any FTE issues, but on my S12 only 2-and-a-half of the ports are visible, I'm going to strip it down and modify it, per your suggestions.

#39 Bounce12

Bounce12

    Your mortgage and your health care are NOT our problem!

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,882 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 20 January 2009 - 07:40 PM

After shooting, I opened it up and looked at the back. The back of the firing pin mechanism is hitting the back plate. It's leaving an impression, but it wasn't enough to break through the paint and the back of the firing pin mechanism isn't deformed at all.


Congrats on fixing your shooter Bounce12, Cobra sells a modification to fix the bolt smacking problem, check out this thread..
http://forum.saiga-1...showtopic=33224

Also, thanks to JeffD for posting this information! I don't have any FTE issues, but on my S12 only 2-and-a-half of the ports are visible, I'm going to strip it down and modify it, per your suggestions.



Thanks for this reply vbrtrmn.

I hadn't seen this thread.

It's awesome.

Thanks again,
This post is being monitored by agencies of the US Federal Government

#40 GimmeLiberty

GimmeLiberty

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 89 posts

Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:27 PM

Thanks JeffD !! Followed your instructions here on my 3 port gun (2 hidden) and found it was a lot easier than I was anticipating. I will have to test it later, but I can see all three holes now. Crossing my fingers that this cheap WalMart stuff will work now so I can enjoy cheap shooting fun ! (next on the list, move the trigger forward...bought the trigger group, now I need to get some cohonies.)
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
-Thomas Jefferson

#41 Snoofer Inc.

Snoofer Inc.

    road warrior

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 687 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:America FUCK YEAH!!!!!

Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:40 PM



question, are they usually uniform in how they drill the three holes? when i look into mine i see two holes towards the front of the gun. it basically looks like the pic above minus the top hole. i tired to take it apart but couldn't get the gas block to move. i need to find a shelf bracket 2maro.
"how bout the power to kill a yak from 200 yards away...with MIND BULLETS!!"

#42 GimmeLiberty

GimmeLiberty

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 89 posts

Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:45 PM



question, are they usually uniform in how they drill the three holes? when i look into mine i see two holes towards the front of the gun. it basically looks like the pic above minus the top hole. i tired to take it apart but couldn't get the gas block to move. i need to find a shelf bracket 2maro.


I suspect you have a 2 hole gun. Mine was just like the one pictured here, with one hole towards the butt end of the gun and two holes buried under the gas block toward the business end of the Saiga.
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
-Thomas Jefferson

#43 Snoofer Inc.

Snoofer Inc.

    road warrior

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 687 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:America FUCK YEAH!!!!!

Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:09 PM

I suspect you have a 2 hole gun. Mine was just like the one pictured here, with one hole towards the butt end of the gun and two holes buried under the gas block toward the business end of the Saiga.


yeah, i was afraid of that. one of the holes is partially blocked also.
"how bout the power to kill a yak from 200 yards away...with MIND BULLETS!!"

#44 Jangles

Jangles

    Member

  • Contributor
  • Pip
  • 80 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arizona

Posted 24 January 2009 - 12:39 PM

I just looked at mine and I don't see ANY holes other than the big one to look thru. Has anyone seen this before? What should I do??
Do you raelly think they can't take your guns away?
Click it and read.
http://www.armytimes...meland_090708w/


Posted Image

#45 Bounce12

Bounce12

    Your mortgage and your health care are NOT our problem!

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,882 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 24 January 2009 - 12:41 PM

I wouldn't do shit until you ops check it.

Shoot the thing and see if you have problems.

You might be fine as it is!
This post is being monitored by agencies of the US Federal Government

#46 Jangles

Jangles

    Member

  • Contributor
  • Pip
  • 80 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arizona

Posted 24 January 2009 - 12:46 PM

Ooops, I looked again and there appears to be 2 holes on the outside edges. Way outside. By looking thru the bbl I can see 2 small holes. I have around 150
-200 rounds thru it. It cycles duck loads but
only ocasionally lite loads. Hmm, RAA did send me a place to send it to with free shipping. Cadiz something. WTD??
Jangles

Edited by Jangles, 24 January 2009 - 12:49 PM.

  • DasBoot likes this
Do you raelly think they can't take your guns away?
Click it and read.
http://www.armytimes...meland_090708w/


Posted Image

#47 Maverick223

Maverick223

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntersville, N.C.

Posted 24 January 2009 - 01:31 PM

Ooops, I looked again and there appears to be 2 holes on the outside edges. Way outside. By looking thru the bbl I can see 2 small holes. I have around 150
-200 rounds thru it. It cycles duck loads but
only ocasionally lite loads. Hmm, RAA did send me a place to send it to with free shipping. Cadiz something. WTD??
Jangles


I would do it yourself, I have found very few gunsmiths that do acceptable work, even less that I consider good that are in the Charlotte, NC area. I don't like the idea of sending it to RAAC gunsmiths as I have not seen their work (and have heard of some doing poor work). If you really do not want to do it yourself, send it to someone like reputable...there seem to be a few here. :haha: Best of luck, Mav.
Life is ironic, you start out at a job where you can't afford the toys you want to play with; then you get a well-paying job where you don't have the time to play with the toys; then you get old and physically can't play with the toys that you have acquired over the years of toil.

#48 Maverick223

Maverick223

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntersville, N.C.

Posted 24 January 2009 - 01:33 PM

Ooops, I looked again and there appears to be 2 holes on the outside edges. Way outside. By looking thru the bbl I can see 2 small holes. I have around 150
-200 rounds thru it. It cycles duck loads but
only ocasionally lite loads. Hmm, RAA did send me a place to send it to with free shipping. Cadiz something. WTD??
Jangles


I would do it yourself, I have found very few gunsmiths that do acceptable work, even less that I consider good that are in the Charlotte, NC area. I don't like the idea of sending it to RAAC gunsmiths as I have not seen their work (and have heard of some doing poor work). If you really do not want to do it yourself, send it to someone like reputable...there seem to be a few here. :haha: Best of luck, Mav.


like reputable man...lol
Life is ironic, you start out at a job where you can't afford the toys you want to play with; then you get a well-paying job where you don't have the time to play with the toys; then you get old and physically can't play with the toys that you have acquired over the years of toil.

#49 Propellerhead

Propellerhead

    Newbie

  • Member
  • 2 posts

Posted 25 January 2009 - 11:49 AM

With the flashlight, look in the gas tube at your gas ports. This is what you should now see.



19) Reinstall the upper gas block pin. Lay the gun on your work surface with the ejection port facing up. Check the gas block pin (Long one) to make sure you did not mushroom the end of the pin when you removed it. If necessary use a flat file to clean up the pin before reinserting. Put a drop of oil in the gas block hole and just tap the pin back enough to get it to stay in the gas block without holding it. Reinsert the spring into gas regulator locking pin bore. Reinsert the gas regulator locking pin with the notch facing the barrel. Now for the tricky part. You must push in the spring loaded gas regulator locking pin inwards while taping the gas block pin into the gas block. The gas block pin will pass through the notch in the gas regulator locking pin. If done correctly, the spring loaded pin will move freely. Using a 1/16 pin punch tap in the upper gas block retaining pin until it is flush with the gas block on both sides. It should go in without too much force. If it is very difficult to reinstall, chances are that you do not have the gas block holes perfectly aligned with the slot in the barrel. Remove the pin and correct if necessary.

20) Reinstall the lower gas block pin. Lay the gun on your work surface with the ejection port facing up. Check the gas block pin (Short one) to make sure you did not mushroom the end of the pin when you removed it. If necessary use a flat file to clean up the pin before reinserting. Put a drop of oil in the gas block hole. Using a 1/16 pin punch tap in the lower gas block retaining pin until it is flush with the gas block on both sides.

21) Reinstall the front hand guard.

22) Reinstall the remaining components and check for proper operation of the gun. ENJOY!



#50 Propellerhead

Propellerhead

    Newbie

  • Member
  • 2 posts

Posted 25 January 2009 - 11:50 AM

With the flashlight, look in the gas tube at your gas ports. This is what you should now see.



19) Reinstall the upper gas block pin. Lay the gun on your work surface with the ejection port facing up. Check the gas block pin (Long one) to make sure you did not mushroom the end of the pin when you removed it. If necessary use a flat file to clean up the pin before reinserting. Put a drop of oil in the gas block hole and just tap the pin back enough to get it to stay in the gas block without holding it. Reinsert the spring into gas regulator locking pin bore. Reinsert the gas regulator locking pin with the notch facing the barrel. Now for the tricky part. You must push in the spring loaded gas regulator locking pin inwards while taping the gas block pin into the gas block. The gas block pin will pass through the notch in the gas regulator locking pin. If done correctly, the spring loaded pin will move freely. Using a 1/16 pin punch tap in the upper gas block retaining pin until it is flush with the gas block on both sides. It should go in without too much force. If it is very difficult to reinstall, chances are that you do not have the gas block holes perfectly aligned with the slot in the barrel. Remove the pin and correct if necessary.

20) Reinstall the lower gas block pin. Lay the gun on your work surface with the ejection port facing up. Check the gas block pin (Short one) to make sure you did not mushroom the end of the pin when you removed it. If necessary use a flat file to clean up the pin before reinserting. Put a drop of oil in the gas block hole. Using a 1/16 pin punch tap in the lower gas block retaining pin until it is flush with the gas block on both sides.

21) Reinstall the front hand guard.

22) Reinstall the remaining components and check for proper operation of the gun. ENJOY!



#51 Maverick223

Maverick223

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntersville, N.C.

Posted 26 January 2009 - 08:15 AM

Ooops, I looked again and there appears to be 2 holes on the outside edges. Way outside. By looking thru the bbl I can see 2 small holes. I have around 150
-200 rounds thru it. It cycles duck loads but
only ocasionally lite loads. Hmm, RAA did send me a place to send it to with free shipping. Cadiz something. WTD??
Jangles


I retract my previous comment, I have heard good things about Cadiz Gun Works (although I haven't inspected their work myself). If you don't mind the wait I would send it to them, and worry about more important things like ninjas :ph34r: . ~ Mav.
Life is ironic, you start out at a job where you can't afford the toys you want to play with; then you get a well-paying job where you don't have the time to play with the toys; then you get old and physically can't play with the toys that you have acquired over the years of toil.

#52 Jangles

Jangles

    Member

  • Contributor
  • Pip
  • 80 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arizona

Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:31 PM

Ooops, I looked again and there appears to be 2 holes on the outside edges. Way outside. By looking thru the bbl I can see 2 small holes. I have around 150
-200 rounds thru it. It cycles duck loads but
only ocasionally lite loads. Hmm, RAA did send me a place to send it to with free shipping. Cadiz something. WTD??
Jangles


I retract my previous comment, I have heard good things about Cadiz Gun Works (although I haven't inspected their work myself). If you don't mind the wait I would send it to them, and worry about more important things like ninjas :ph34r: . ~ Mav.


Yes, no hurry. I was just in a hurry to get it before berry passed some bullshit to keep me from it. I have my mags and just ordered my drum from Mike. I can wait til it gets fixed right. Thanks
Jangles
Do you raelly think they can't take your guns away?
Click it and read.
http://www.armytimes...meland_090708w/


Posted Image

#53 Ben Vampatella

Ben Vampatella

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,864 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Citrus County, Florida

Posted 26 January 2009 - 03:55 PM

Ooops, I looked again and there appears to be 2 holes on the outside edges. Way outside. By looking thru the bbl I can see 2 small holes. I have around 150
-200 rounds thru it. It cycles duck loads but
only ocasionally lite loads. Hmm, RAA did send me a place to send it to with free shipping. Cadiz something. WTD??
Jangles


Hey Jangles - Yes indeed, CGW is doing the RAAC warranty work from here out. For the rest of you, this information and procedure for warranty work will be posted this week in our business section, and is supposed to appear on the RAAC site sometime soon, as well. Ms Vicki was working on the draft of the warranty order form last night.

I would like to note, that although this thread is a good one, if it fails, it will VOID your gun's warranty, and you will have to pay to have it fixed. Please do be sure that this fix is going to work for you and that you can accomplish it before you try to attempt it yourself.
Rockin the Saiga world since 2003

#54 Snoofer Inc.

Snoofer Inc.

    road warrior

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 687 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:America FUCK YEAH!!!!!

Posted 26 January 2009 - 06:37 PM

Ooops, I looked again and there appears to be 2 holes on the outside edges. Way outside. By looking thru the bbl I can see 2 small holes. I have around 150
-200 rounds thru it. It cycles duck loads but
only ocasionally lite loads. Hmm, RAA did send me a place to send it to with free shipping. Cadiz something. WTD??
Jangles


Hey Jangles - Yes indeed, CGW is doing the RAAC warranty work from here out. For the rest of you, this information and procedure for warranty work will be posted this week in our business section, and is supposed to appear on the RAAC site sometime soon, as well. Ms Vicki was working on the draft of the warranty order form last night.

I would like to note, that although this thread is a good one, if it fails, it will VOID your gun's warranty, and you will have to pay to have it fixed. Please do be sure that this fix is going to work for you and that you can accomplish it before you try to attempt it yourself.


what are you guys doing to fix the FTE problems on the 2 port guns?
"how bout the power to kill a yak from 200 yards away...with MIND BULLETS!!"

#55 Tate

Tate

    Molot Guy

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 66 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Finland

Posted 27 January 2009 - 03:46 AM

Here is the same document JeffD wrote in pdf format. I just made it. It's easier to print. :)
Attached File  Modification_to_repair_FTE_issues_on_Saigas_with_blocked_gas_ports.pdf   776.75KB   541 downloads
Member of Team Armalite Finland

#56 Maverick223

Maverick223

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 17 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Huntersville, N.C.

Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:12 PM

Ooops, I looked again and there appears to be 2 holes on the outside edges. Way outside. By looking thru the bbl I can see 2 small holes. I have around 150
-200 rounds thru it. It cycles duck loads but
only ocasionally lite loads. Hmm, RAA did send me a place to send it to with free shipping. Cadiz something. WTD??
Jangles


Hey Jangles - Yes indeed, CGW is doing the RAAC warranty work from here out. For the rest of you, this information and procedure for warranty work will be posted this week in our business section, and is supposed to appear on the RAAC site sometime soon, as well. Ms Vicki was working on the draft of the warranty order form last night.

I would like to note, that although this thread is a good one, if it fails, it will VOID your gun's warranty, and you will have to pay to have it fixed. Please do be sure that this fix is going to work for you and that you can accomplish it before you try to attempt it yourself.


what are you guys doing to fix the FTE problems on the 2 port guns?


I drilled 2 additional holes, some1 drilled 3 new holes and others did the mod detailed above (filing gas block). Drilling two additional holes solved most of the issue, the only time it stovepipes now is when fired from the hip with Win Universal rounds. Not a big issue 4 me, but I may break it down and try filing to relieve the blocked portions of the fore holes.
Life is ironic, you start out at a job where you can't afford the toys you want to play with; then you get a well-paying job where you don't have the time to play with the toys; then you get old and physically can't play with the toys that you have acquired over the years of toil.

#57 JeffD

JeffD

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPip
  • 207 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southern Nevada

Posted 27 January 2009 - 12:56 PM

Ooops, I looked again and there appears to be 2 holes on the outside edges. Way outside. By looking thru the bbl I can see 2 small holes. I have around 150
-200 rounds thru it. It cycles duck loads but
only ocasionally lite loads. Hmm, RAA did send me a place to send it to with free shipping. Cadiz something. WTD??
Jangles


Hey Jangles - Yes indeed, CGW is doing the RAAC warranty work from here out. For the rest of you, this information and procedure for warranty work will be posted this week in our business section, and is supposed to appear on the RAAC site sometime soon, as well. Ms Vicki was working on the draft of the warranty order form last night.

I would like to note, that although this thread is a good one, if it fails, it will VOID your gun's warranty, and you will have to pay to have it fixed. Please do be sure that this fix is going to work for you and that you can accomplish it before you try to attempt it yourself.


what are you guys doing to fix the FTE problems on the 2 port guns?


I drilled 2 additional holes, some1 drilled 3 new holes and others did the mod detailed above (filing gas block). Drilling two additional holes solved most of the issue, the only time it stovepipes now is when fired from the hip with Win Universal rounds. Not a big issue 4 me, but I may break it down and try filing to relieve the blocked portions of the fore holes.



Be careful...

I spoke with a VERY knowledgeable gunsmith/machinist/vendor from THIS site and additional holes may cause long-term gas erosion and/or weakness to the barrel. If you have an issue that you are going to attempt to fix yourself, not send in for warranty repair, I would STRONGLY suggest you unblock the existing holes completely before considering adding more.

Remember the quantity of gas through the gas ports is only one of many factors involved in the proper operation of the gun. Before undertaking any permanent mods to your barrel you should evaluate all the other factors.

1) Has the gun been broken in? (Including high brass loads)
2) Is the gas piston and bore clean?
3) Has the hammer, bolt, bolt carrier and breech been polished as recommended?

There is also an improved gas knob (regulator) that will help without having to mod or disassemble the gun. (No warranty issues.)

I know a fellow member on this site who's brand new TWO port gun would not fire cheap wally-world ammo without issues. After doing nothing but shooting (300+ rounds) and lubricating the gun, it now shoots that cheap stuff without ANY issues.

Look before you leap...

Edited by JeffD, 27 January 2009 - 01:00 PM.

If you can't be good... Be GOOD at it!

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke

#58 Ben Vampatella

Ben Vampatella

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,864 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Citrus County, Florida

Posted 27 January 2009 - 04:28 PM

Just a quick note, Mr Cole does not allow me to disclose specifics of his work. You would have to find out what was done to correct any gun sent in for warranty repair when you get it back.

This is a great thread, but like the OP is saying - look before you leap.
Rockin the Saiga world since 2003

#59 jamiej1966

jamiej1966

    Newbie

  • Member
  • 1 posts

Posted 14 February 2009 - 11:17 AM

First let me say how nice it is that so many of you are willing to take the time you do to help others with problems. I think it's great!

I've had my Saiga 12 for about 6 months and have fired about 250 rounds of high brass slugs and buckshot through it with not one stoppage. However, I recently tried some of the cheap stuff only to find the opposite. It would not cycle at all with ANY type of inexpensive field load. I cleaned and lubricated it thoroughly and checked that the gas ports were clear, but still it either failed to eject or failed to feed on every round. I reviewed this mod and decided to give it a try. The instructions are clear and the images are great, but I did run into one problem I haven't seen addressed. The upper gas block pin on my Saiga would not budge! Not at all! I ruined two punches in the process. Finally, in desparation I tried a pneumatic palm nailer to drive the punch. Worked like a charm! Naturally I had a problem reinserting the pin as well and again the palm nailer came to the rescue. This time I utilized the finish nailer attachment with a non-marring tip and drove the pin right in. I know not everyone has one of these things, but short of a press of some sort there was no way I was going to get that pin out or in. Hopefully my shotgun was unique and others don't encounter this, but if that's not the case, this is a possible solution. Besides, my palm nailer has saved my butt on numerous household projects and everyone should have one!!!! :)

That's the good news part of this post. The bad news part is that my Saiga is one of the newer two gas port models. No hidden holes to expose! The manner in which the ports were situated matched the description at the beginning of the instructions, so I figured I was fine. Well, since I had the thing apart I figured I'd try opening up the ports a bit. I carefully drilled them with a 3/32" bit. I then reassembled and test fired. All the cheap Wal-Mart ammo except the Winchester stuff functioned flawlessly. With all the negative posts I've read about Wal-Mart's cheap Winchester ammo, I'm not going to worry about it. Now while the other stuff ejects and feeds, it does drop the empties right at your feet. This leads me to believe that as soon as it gets a bit dirty, the FTE and FTF problems will be back. I'm at 65 rounds so far without a problem. I'm going to try some of the suggested bolt polishing methods to see if they help at all.

A couple of other things that worked for me during this Mod that I thought I'd share:

1) A rubber mallet works great to remove the gas block and a plastic mallet works exremely well to reinstall it.
2) In addition to scribing the barrel where in meets the gas block prior to disassembly, if you make an index mark on the barrel and the gas block in a location that will be covered by the forend, you will greatly simplify reassembly by allowing you to easily align the pins.

Well, that's my two cents worth. I hope something here helps someone, because you have all certainly helped me. THANKS!!!!!

#60 Bounce12

Bounce12

    Your mortgage and your health care are NOT our problem!

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,882 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 15 February 2009 - 03:07 PM

I did run into one problem I haven't seen addressed. The upper gas block pin on my Saiga would not budge! Not at all! I ruined two punches in the process.


I did too. My punches didn't last 20 seconds. Literally.
This post is being monitored by agencies of the US Federal Government




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users