Jump to content

Received my Form 1 today


Recommended Posts

A month or two ago I ordered the Form 1 to turn my S12 into a SBS. Today the form(s) came along with form on 922r. What has turn around time been like recently? I have one or two names already, but what smiths on here can do a shortened barrel without having to wait a few months?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

Link to post
Share on other sites
Choices:

 

1. Wait months and months at a minimum, years in the case of Tromix

 

2. Dive in and do it all yourself

 

I'd do it myself in a heartbeat except I don't have the tools or know-how to shorten the gas block and smooth/even out/rethread the barrel.

 

-Emt1581

Link to post
Share on other sites
Choices:

 

1. Wait months and months at a minimum, years in the case of Tromix

 

2. Dive in and do it all yourself

 

I'd do it myself in a heartbeat except I don't have the tools or know-how to shorten the gas block and smooth/even out/rethread the barrel.

 

-Emt1581

 

This forum has answers to all...repeat, ALL, questions. Use search, spend the time to explore all...repeat, ALL of the threads you come upon during your explorations.

 

Don't get in some sort of hurried frenzy. Make YOURSELF into a craftsman as have many, many others before you.

Learn by reading; ask questions here. It will be one of the finest and most absorbing tasks you've set yourself to.

As far as tools, the most special types, primarily associated with the metric system, can actually be rented from those who have gone before you. Or you can buckle down and just acquire them yourself.

 

I think you don't actually "shorten" the gas block....you just move it rearward to recoup the gas pressure on an SBS.

 

 

Regards,

 

AYNEW (or ANU?)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a little confused. Are you saying that it took the ATF "a month or two" just to get a set of blank Form 1's sent to you. Or, is it that your completed Form 1 is back, stamped, and ready to go? It's not exactly clear.

 

As far as the 992r form you are talking about, I assume this is a Certificate of Compliance?

 

Are you asking about conversion turn around times from a smith or ATF turn around times for Form 1 approval?

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm a little confused. Are you saying that it took the ATF "a month or two" just to get a set of blank Form 1's sent to you. Or, is it that your completed Form 1 is back, stamped, and ready to go? It's not exactly clear.

 

As far as the 992r form you are talking about, I assume this is a Certificate of Compliance?

 

Are you asking about conversion turn around times from a smith or ATF turn around times for Form 1 approval?

 

It took the ATF "a month or two" to get the BLANK form to me.

 

It is the compliance form. It just struck me that all we do is talk about our three-magical parts so we can comply and this form doesn't care if you mount a rear view mirror on the thing...just so you are not a nonimmigrant alient. Which, again, I would think the Form 1 would verify.

 

I'm guessing the turn around time for the form will be 4-6 months. I'm also interested in finding a smith that can do the job. However, I'll pobably go with one of the two I already have spoken to.

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm a little confused. Are you saying that it took the ATF "a month or two" just to get a set of blank Form 1's sent to you. Or, is it that your completed Form 1 is back, stamped, and ready to go? It's not exactly clear.

 

As far as the 992r form you are talking about, I assume this is a Certificate of Compliance?

 

Are you asking about conversion turn around times from a smith or ATF turn around times for Form 1 approval?

 

It took the ATF "a month or two" to get the BLANK form to me.

 

It is the compliance form. It just struck me that all we do is talk about our three-magical parts so we can comply and this form doesn't care if you mount a rear view mirror on the thing...just so you are not a nonimmigrant alient. Which, again, I would think the Form 1 would verify.

 

I'm guessing the turn around time for the form will be 4-6 months. I'm also interested in finding a smith that can do the job. However, I'll pobably go with one of the two I already have spoken to.

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

 

 

I'm still looking for the post, but there was a good explanation on what the 5330.20 Cert. of Comp. means. If I find, it I'll post it. Really fuzzy here, but it was something like the 5330.20 is a newer way for the gov't to take away some of your rights (can spy on you easier) if you were found lying on the Cert. It has nothing to do with compliance parts. Actually, once you have a stamped Form 1 you won't have to worry about the parts counts for that gun. One copy needs to accompany each set of Form 1s.

 

No need to get in a hurry if you haven't even filled out the forms. A smith isn't going to cut anything until he has the paperwork in hand that says it's cool to do so. Best you send off two signed copies of the Form 1, one Cert of Comp, two sets of fingerprints, and a check for $200. Once the ATF sends it back to you, you should send it to a smith for cutting to SBS.

 

ETA, My last F1's have taken right around two months for approval. YMMV. The BATFE is extremely busy right now so your 4-6 months might be right too. You'll just have to wait and see.

Edited by sunnybean
Link to post
Share on other sites

This isn't the thread, but here is what Tony K (NFA Moderator on ARF) has to say about the Cert. of Comp.

 

"The 5330 Certificate of Compliance was added as an NFA application requirement after the 9/11 attacks, to help in the prosecution of suspected terrorists.

 

Telling .gov that you are a citizen when you are not, is perjury. By having a separate form in which you swear to your citizenship, it's hard for a bad guy to say he just checked the wrong box on a 4473 (and remember, in-state Form 4 transfers from individual to individual do not require a dealer, thus no 4473 or other form that involves citizenship).

 

Even if a suspect's ATF application is denied, or the NFA item itself is thrown out on a technicality as evidence, the Justice Department still has that signed 5330 as proof of perjury, and that gives them legal grounds to get search warrants, etc.

 

Similar forms are required for many other firearms-related licenses and permits. It's one more tool in the fight to stop terrorism, so I have no objections to filling it out and sending it in.

 

HTH!

Tony"

Link to post
Share on other sites
A month or two ago I ordered the Form 1 to turn my S12 into a SBS. Today the form(s) came along with form on 922r. What has turn around time been like recently? I have one or two names already, but what smiths on here can do a shortened barrel without having to wait a few months?

 

I'm a little confused. ATF form 1 is for making your own NFA weapon. Is there a reason you want to file form 1 but have a smith do the work? Normally this would be a form 4 situation.

 

Also anyone that can do the work already has the blank forms, so normally you start by talking to the smith.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can do a Form 1 and still have a C3 smith convert it (SBS or SBR) for you. The benefit is that I get to hold on to the gun while the ATF processes the paperwork. The downside is that I have my Name, City, and State engraved into the receiver (might hurt resale) instead of the smith's info.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I know you can do it, I just wonder why you would when you don't even know who's going to do the work?

 

I guess if holding the gun is a big deal to you, but I still can't see it.

 

Okay, here's another reason...or why I went F1. I just bought two Saigas. I just sent the F1's to the ATF. Right now that's a total bill of about $1500. Besides that, I bought another expensive weapon and put it on an F1 (I'll convert it myself). I can't afford to do two S12 conversions at the moment. But I also want to get the paperwork approved while I still can (impending AWB an all that paranoia). So, while I wait and save $$$, I get to shoot my guns and if a AWB is in place before I get the funds together, I can still SBS them because I have the F1's approved to do so.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I know you can do it, I just wonder why you would when you don't even know who's going to do the work?

 

I guess if holding the gun is a big deal to you, but I still can't see it.

 

Okay, here's another reason...or why I went F1. I just bought two Saigas. I just sent the F1's to the ATF. Right now that's a total bill of about $1500. Besides that, I bought another expensive weapon and put it on an F1 (I'll convert it myself). I can't afford to do two S12 conversions at the moment. But I also want to get the paperwork approved while I still can (impending AWB an all that paranoia). So, while I wait and save $$$, I get to shoot my guns and if a AWB is in place before I get the funds together, I can still SBS them because I have the F1's approved to do so.

 

...unless they do something silly like push to outlaw everything but squirt-guns and sling shots! :ded:

 

Thanks for the replies!!

 

-Emt1581

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob,

 

Here's another reason....even if I had the $$$ (and you guys were accepting work) I would end up waiting longer for my gun. First, I'd have to send it to you. You'd fill out the Form 4 and wait for ATF approval (and like I said before, I'm out my gun all this time...I can still hunt right now). Once the Feds say go, you cut and do your magic. Now, I'm stuck with a second wait because you aren't in my home state. I have to wait for you and my C3 FFL to do the paperwork (Form 5 right? Whatever it is it doesn't cost anything but time) to get it back in my state. So here I am waiting for the ATF a second time. Once that is approved and you send the Title II weapon to my C3 FFL, he's going to bend me over again for another transfer fee ($10-$100 depending on the dealer).

Link to post
Share on other sites
This isn't the thread, but here is what Tony K (NFA Moderator on ARF) has to say about the Cert. of Comp.

 

"The 5330 Certificate of Compliance was added as an NFA application requirement after the 9/11 attacks, to help in the prosecution of suspected terrorists.

 

Telling .gov that you are a citizen when you are not, is perjury. By having a separate form in which you swear to your citizenship, it's hard for a bad guy to say he just checked the wrong box on a 4473 (and remember, in-state Form 4 transfers from individual to individual do not require a dealer, thus no 4473 or other form that involves citizenship).

 

Even if a suspect's ATF application is denied, or the NFA item itself is thrown out on a technicality as evidence, the Justice Department still has that signed 5330 as proof of perjury, and that gives them legal grounds to get search warrants, etc.

 

Similar forms are required for many other firearms-related licenses and permits. It's one more tool in the fight to stop terrorism, so I have no objections to filling it out and sending it in.

 

HTH!

Tony"

 

That in itself is quite amusing in that since when do criminals/terrorists succumb to obeying the laws of the land? :lolol:

 

Abdul: I think I'm going to terrorize the local mall and earn my 72 virgins when the police kill me, but first I need to saw off the barrel on my shotgun.

 

Muhammed: Oh, you better file a Form 1 and make sure the shotgun is 100% compliant, as it's Allah's will.

 

Abdul: Yes, you're right, Muhammed, what was I thinking? I better apply for citizenship also so I don't risk perjing myself, as there will be consequences in the afterlife.

 

:devil:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob,

 

Here's another reason....even if I had the $$$ (and you guys were accepting work) I would end up waiting longer for my gun. First, I'd have to send it to you. You'd fill out the Form 4 and wait for ATF approval (and like I said before, I'm out my gun all this time...I can still hunt right now). Once the Feds say go, you cut and do your magic. Now, I'm stuck with a second wait because you aren't in my home state. I have to wait for you and my C3 FFL to do the paperwork (Form 5 right? Whatever it is it doesn't cost anything but time) to get it back in my state. So here I am waiting for the ATF a second time. Once that is approved and you send the Title II weapon to my C3 FFL, he's going to bend me over again for another transfer fee ($10-$100 depending on the dealer).

 

 

I think it would be pretty uncommon for Tromix to ever need to do a Form 4. Tromix is a class 2 SOT (Special Occupational Tax) holder and so can make all the NFA firearms they want. As a NFA firearm manufacturer they do have to do a Form 2 whenever they make a new NFA firearm, or a Form 3 if they are getting a NFA firearm from another SOT holder (class 1, 2, or 3), but the only time they would have to do a Form 4 is if they were getting an NFA firearm from a non-SOT holder. By the way, as a non-SOT holder if you get a NFA firearm from a class 3 dealer it would be on a Form 4 not a Form 5. Form 5 is what you would do after you have received the tax stamp back from the ATF on a Form 1, and rather than doing the barrel cutting yourself you want a gunsmith to do it (Form 5 also covers sending a NFA firearm to a gunsmith for repair). Now technically it is not legally required that you do a Form 5 for this, since the ATF doesn't officially consider sending a NFA firearm temporarily to a licensed gunsmith for service or repair as a transfer under the NFA, but the ATF strongly recommends that you do a Form 5 anyway (and also that the gunsmith do a Form 5 when they send the NFA firearm back to you) to avoid any possible 'misunderstandings' on the ATF's part about whether the NFA firearm was ever possibly improperly transferred at some point.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't afford to do two S12 conversions at the moment. But I also want to get the paperwork approved while I still can (impending AWB an all that paranoia). So, while I wait and save $$$, I get to shoot my guns and if a AWB is in place before I get the funds together, I can still SBS them because I have the F1's approved to do so.

 

There's a problem with this logic.

 

If you don't convert the guns to PG configuration before the ban, you won't be able to do them after. Even assuming that NFA will be unaffected (like last time), you'll be faced with SBSing a gun with a sporting stock.

 

This is why I tell everyone who has a Saiga to convert it ASAP. It will simply be worth twice as much after the ban, when everybody (including NFA collectors) will be looking for a pre-ban converted host gun for their project.

 

I've know guys that Form 1 for ego, so they can have their name on it and I don't really care one way or the other because there are many ways to skin this cat. But think about my advise about converting first- even a crude conversion that could be cleaned up later (922r applies of course). My last form 4 only took about 60 days; shoot something else for a while!

 

Cool dog in your avatar, btw.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I think it would be pretty uncommon for Tromix to ever need to do a Form 4.

On the contrary, it's very common. Form 4 is used to transfer the finished gun to the buyer.

 

 

I thought the buyer (transferee) was the one who fills out and sends in the Form 4 it to the ATF, and the seller(transferor)'s only involvement was when the transferee sends them the Form 4 to get their signature in box 10 (the 'signature of transferor' box). So you mean that the transferee and transferor both have to fill out and send in their own separate Form 4s (sending their Form 4s to each other to get eachother's signatures)?

Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't afford to do two S12 conversions at the moment. But I also want to get the paperwork approved while I still can (impending AWB an all that paranoia). So, while I wait and save $$$, I get to shoot my guns and if a AWB is in place before I get the funds together, I can still SBS them because I have the F1's approved to do so.

 

There's a problem with this logic.

 

If you don't convert the guns to PG configuration before the ban, you won't be able to do them after. Even assuming that NFA will be unaffected (like last time), you'll be faced with SBSing a gun with a sporting stock.

 

Good catch, I should have said that I will be converting to pistol grip ASAP but not to SBS.

 

This is why I tell everyone who has a Saiga to convert it ASAP. It will simply be worth twice as much after the ban, when everybody (including NFA collectors) will be looking for a pre-ban converted host gun for their project.

 

True that.

 

I've know guys that Form 1 for ego, so they can have their name on it and I don't really care one way or the other because there are many ways to skin this cat. But think about my advise about converting first- even a crude conversion that could be cleaned up later (922r applies of course). My last form 4 only took about 60 days; shoot something else for a while!

 

For ego? Are you serious? That's a new one to me. Anyways, you're right I should shoot something else for a while. But, right now these are my new ones and I'd like to break them in, PG them, and in general figure them out.

 

Cool dog in your avatar, btw.

 

Thanks man. She's the sweetest little Frenchy in the world. Her name is Sunny.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I think it would be pretty uncommon for Tromix to ever need to do a Form 4. Tromix is a class 2 SOT (Special Occupational Tax) holder and so can make all the NFA firearms they want. As a NFA firearm manufacturer they do have to do a Form 2 whenever they make a new NFA firearm, or a Form 3 if they are getting a NFA firearm from another SOT holder (class 1, 2, or 3), but the only time they would have to do a Form 4 is if they were getting an NFA firearm from a non-SOT holder. By the way, as a non-SOT holder if you get a NFA firearm from a class 3 dealer it would be on a Form 4 not a Form 5. Form 5 is what you would do after you have received the tax stamp back from the ATF on a Form 1, and rather than doing the barrel cutting yourself you want a gunsmith to do it (Form 5 also covers sending a NFA firearm to a gunsmith for repair). Now technically it is not legally required that you do a Form 5 for this, since the ATF doesn't officially consider sending a NFA firearm temporarily to a licensed gunsmith for service or repair as a transfer under the NFA, but the ATF strongly recommends that you do a Form 5 anyway (and also that the gunsmith do a Form 5 when they send the NFA firearm back to you) to avoid any possible 'misunderstandings' on the ATF's part about whether the NFA firearm was ever possibly improperly transferred at some point.

 

Frogfoot,

 

My bad on calling it a F5. I wasn't sure and you can see that in my post. Thanks for the refresher on the F5, however.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Bob,

 

Here's another reason....even if I had the $$$ (and you guys were accepting work) I would end up waiting longer for my gun. First, I'd have to send it to you. You'd fill out the Form 4 and wait for ATF approval (and like I said before, I'm out my gun all this time...I can still hunt right now). Once the Feds say go, you cut and do your magic. Now, I'm stuck with a second wait because you aren't in my home state. I have to wait for you and my C3 FFL to do the paperwork (Form 5 right? Whatever it is it doesn't cost anything but time) to get it back in my state. So here I am waiting for the ATF a second time. Once that is approved and you send the Title II weapon to my C3 FFL, he's going to bend me over again for another transfer fee ($10-$100 depending on the dealer).

 

 

I think it would be pretty uncommon for Tromix to ever need to do a Form 4. Tromix is a class 2 SOT (Special Occupational Tax) holder and so can make all the NFA firearms they want. As a NFA firearm manufacturer they do have to do a Form 2 whenever they make a new NFA firearm, or a Form 3 if they are getting a NFA firearm from another SOT holder (class 1, 2, or 3), but the only time they would have to do a Form 4 is if they were getting an NFA firearm from a non-SOT holder. By the way, as a non-SOT holder if you get a NFA firearm from a class 3 dealer it would be on a Form 4 not a Form 5. Form 5 is what you would do after you have received the tax stamp back from the ATF on a Form 1, and rather than doing the barrel cutting yourself you want a gunsmith to do it (Form 5 also covers sending a NFA firearm to a gunsmith for repair). Now technically it is not legally required that you do a Form 5 for this, since the ATF doesn't officially consider sending a NFA firearm temporarily to a licensed gunsmith for service or repair as a transfer under the NFA, but the ATF strongly recommends that you do a Form 5 anyway (and also that the gunsmith do a Form 5 when they send the NFA firearm back to you) to avoid any possible 'misunderstandings' on the ATF's part about whether the NFA firearm was ever possibly improperly transferred at some point.

 

Frogfoot,

 

Hey, I slept better last night and in doing so I have rethought this and think you're right. I'm no NFA guru but I have dabbled in it a bit. I think this is the way it would go. Someone please correct me if any of this is wrong.

 

I don't know anyone in my home state that can/will do a SBS conversion for me. So, this is assuming an out of state SOT is going to do the work. I would have to send the gun to the SOT. They would hold it and fill out a F2. Once the F2 is approved, they would cut and make it a SBS. Once that is done, they would have to get it back in my state to a C3 FFL on a Form 3. Then, once my C3 FFL has the gun in his possession, I would fill out a Form 4 with him. Once that is approved, I can pick up my SBS. So, in that scenario the wait is even longer than what I originally posted. It looks like I'd be waiting three times on the ATF (F2, F3, F4). Maybe I'm messed up. Maybe the SOT does not have to wait on the ATF for F2 approval, but I would think so. Either way, I am sure that the wait would be longer (waiting on F3 and F4). Plus, although two of those Forms do not require a tax (F2, F3), I'd still pay more because the C3 dealer is going to charge me a fee for processing the F4.

 

Now, I think what Bob was/is talking about with them doing lots of F4s must me for folks within his own state. If you use a SOT in your home state, you could just work it all out on one F4 with the SOT. Once the F4 comes back approved from the ATF, they could cut and make into a SBS. When it's done it could go right back to you w/o any other paperwork.

 

I'm still thinking the F1 is the way to go if you are using a SOT that is out of your own state. Once my F1 is approved, I can send it to any SOT I want. They do what they do and send it right back to me. Less waiting and less cost due to my FFL not charging me for a transfer fee.

 

The other benefit I can see is that I'd like to have Tromix do my conversion. I know Bob has posted that their notice of not accepting work until 2011 is probably going to get cut down a ways. But for this scenario, lets just say they don't get to my order until 2011 (or God forbid I can't get the funds together for two SBS converions until then). There is a pretty good chance that a AWB could be passed before I get it in their door (I hate to sound like a fear monger here...just thinking worst case is all). By going F1 I can do a DIY PG conversion now cheap and fun. Once I get all my funds together, and Tromix starts a list again, I can send the F1'd gun to them for SBS...even if a AWB happens b/n now and then, I have the paperwork pre-approved.

 

Does that sound right to you?

 

 

Oh, and EMT I am sorry to hijack your thread. Kinda started something here and probably should have done it in another thread. Anyways, I hope we can all learn something out of it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Frogfoot,

 

Hey, I slept better last night and in doing so I have rethought this and think you're right. I'm no NFA guru but I have dabbled in it a bit. I think this is the way it would go. Someone please correct me if any of this is wrong.

 

I don't know anyone in my home state that can/will do a SBS conversion for me. So, this is assuming an out of state SOT is going to do the work. I would have to send the gun to the SOT. They would hold it and fill out a F2. Once the F2 is approved, they would cut and make it a SBS. Once that is done, they would have to get it back in my state to a C3 FFL on a Form 3. Then, once my C3 FFL has the gun in his possession, I would fill out a Form 4 with him. Once that is approved, I can pick up my SBS. So, in that scenario the wait is even longer than what I originally posted. It looks like I'd be waiting three times on the ATF (F2, F3, F4). Maybe I'm messed up. Maybe the SOT does not have to wait on the ATF for F2 approval, but I would think so. Either way, I am sure that the wait would be longer (waiting on F3 and F4). Plus, although two of those Forms do not require a tax (F2, F3), I'd still pay more because the C3 dealer is going to charge me a fee for processing the F4.

 

Now, I think what Bob was/is talking about with them doing lots of F4s must me for folks within his own state. If you use a SOT in your home state, you could just work it all out on one F4 with the SOT. Once the F4 comes back approved from the ATF, they could cut and make into a SBS. When it's done it could go right back to you w/o any other paperwork.

 

I'm still thinking the F1 is the way to go if you are using a SOT that is out of your own state. Once my F1 is approved, I can send it to any SOT I want. They do what they do and send it right back to me. Less waiting and less cost due to my FFL not charging me for a transfer fee.

 

The other benefit I can see is that I'd like to have Tromix do my conversion. I know Bob has posted that their notice of not accepting work until 2011 is probably going to get cut down a ways. But for this scenario, lets just say they don't get to my order until 2011 (or God forbid I can't get the funds together for two SBS converions until then). There is a pretty good chance that a AWB could be passed before I get it in their door (I hate to sound like a fear monger here...just thinking worst case is all). By going F1 I can do a DIY PG conversion now cheap and fun. Once I get all my funds together, and Tromix starts a list again, I can send the F1'd gun to them for SBS...even if a AWB happens b/n now and then, I have the paperwork pre-approved.

 

Does that sound right to you?

 

 

Oh, and EMT I am sorry to hijack your thread. Kinda started something here and probably should have done it in another thread. Anyways, I hope we can all learn something out of it.

 

 

I'm no NFA guru either, but from the limited research I have done over the years, the general consensus from those involved in the NFA world are that Form 1s and Form 4s take the longest for the ATF to process because of course always at least one of the parties involved in the transfer is a non-SOT holder, while Form 3s are processed very quickly by the ATF since those NFA transfers are always between two SOT holders (for whom the ATF had already done extensive background checks on back when they became SOT holders). As for the Form 2, the ATF doesn't really process these other than to simply acknowledge that they received the Form 2 from the Class 1 or Class 2 SOT holder. Unlike most NFA forms the Form 2 is not a NFA transfer form, but rather it is just a notice sent to the ATF by a Class 1 (NFA importer) or Class 2 (NFA manufacturer) SOT holder when they import or make a NFA firearm (multiple NFA firearms can be listed on a Form 2). You can find out most Form 2 details yourself by just reading over the Form 2 that is on the ATF's website ( http://www.atf.gov/forms/pdfs/f53202.pdf ).

 

So in the grand scheme of things when a non-SOT holder wants to get an NFA weapon and go through the NFA process as quickly as possible, the Form 2s and Form 3s that the SOT holders (NFA firearm importers, dealers, or manufacturers) deal with don't contribute much to the overall wait time, as it is the Form 4 that by far takes the longest for the ATF to process. As far as trying to minimize your wait time with just the ATF it doesn't matter whether you do a Form 1 or a Form 4, since the ATF effectively treats these forms the same from a processing point of view (again since for either form at least one of the parties will be a non-SOT holder). So the real question is whether anything outside of the ATF processing time is contributing to the wait time. If for example you have a gunsmith (who is a Class 2 SOT holder of course) who can immediately take in and start work on a shotgun from you that you want turned into an SBS, then it doesn't matter whether you go the Form 1 or Form 4 route, because all the wait time is effectively with the ATF not the gunsmith. If on the other hand the gunsmith you want to do the SBS work has a wait list of substantial length, then in general you would save time by going the Form 1 route, because you could theoretically send in a Form 1 and get the NFA tax stamp back from the ATF by the time the gunsmith is ready to take in your shotgun for the SBS work. You would then send your shotgun to the gunsmith, they would SBS it, and then as you already noted they would send it straight back to you (again it is recommended you and the gunsmith each do a Form 5 during this step) since you have already gotten the tax stamp back from the ATF on the Form 1. Whereas with the Form 4 route you would have to wait until the gunsmith is done SBSing the shotgun before you could start the NFA transfer process with a Form 4. Another way of looking at it is that with the Form 4 route you would have the gunsmith and ATF wait times running consecutively, while with the Form 1 route the wait times run concurrently (or at least would run partially concurrently) and so overall should save you some time.

 

As far as how to deal with another possible ALWB (Assault-Looking Weapons Ban, I refuse to call it an AWB because it would have nothing to do with assault weapons, only with firearms that resemble assault weapons) its tough to say anything at this point, since much of how you would deal with it would depend on when (if ever) it gets passed, and of course its wording. The only thing that could be said for sure is to get a Saiga 12 (or whatever other arm you want that might get banned) before any possible ALWB might be passed. Of course this isn't really very useful advice since right now no one knows exactly when or if an ALWB will get passed. In any case I doubt a future ALWB would affect the NFA process much other than of course it not being allowed to use the NFA process to convert a 'sporting' (whatever the hell that means) firearm into an ALW (assault looking weapon). I know these days a lot of people would recommend doing a pistol grip conversion as soon as possible as well, and there certainly wouldn't be any harm in this, but if an ALWB was passed and the serial number on your shotgun or rifle showed it had been made or imported before the ALWB went into effect, I just don't see how the ATF would ever be able to prove (in way that would hold up in a court of law anyway) whether that particular rifle or shotgun had a pistol grip conversion done illegally after the ALWB went into effect.

 

By going F1 I can do a DIY PG conversion now cheap and fun.

 

Maybe I misunderstood this sentence, but I assume you already know that you don't need to do a Form 1 to do just a pistol grip conversion. Also, as long as your rifle or shotgun is in a non-sporting configuration before any ALWB went into effect (again how could the ATF prove otherwise), it would already be grandfathered in and you could do a Form 1 for it after any ALWB went into effect.

Edited by Frogfoot
Link to post
Share on other sites

Frogfoot,

 

Thanks for the reply. I think I've got it now. However, to say that the F3's don't take as long because they are going from SOT to SOT has not been my case. I have been waiting over two months on the last two F3's to get some suppressors in-state (still not processed). The last time I went through that process it took even longer. And the time before that it was probably right at two months. My last F1's took almost exactly 60 days. My F4's took about that long too. I'd say they all take about the same (F1, F3, F4). Maybe I'm just not very lucky with F3's. Oh, and all you old NFA dogs don't bash me here. I know it used to take even longer for all the paperwork. I'm not complaining...just relaying my experience.

 

You know, my initial thought on the PG conversion was like you said. Then Bob mentioned that you would have to have it done prior to a ban. BTW, I like your ALWB wording. How would the ATF know if you had a PG on it or not? As long as the SN was below "X" date, it would be a preban...or noban...or whatever you'd call it now, gun. Again, I'm not trying to say anyone should do anything out of the ordinary when it comes to a ALWB that may or may not happen and of which we can only speculate on the contents. I was throwing out a scenario, not trying to arouse paranoia...there is already enough of that going on.

 

Oh, and yes, I do know that I do not need a F1 to PG (English wasn't my strong spot in school). What I was saying is that it is relatively cheap to do. I planed to PG it ASAP all along. PG'd guns just fit me better. I just gotta' wait on the funds to pay for the SBS conversion. Once I gather the funds for SBS, I'll have it cut. Also, I understand the use of the F5, but honestly I have never had a SOT ask for one.

 

Also, thanks for the clarification on the F2. No waiting on that one.

 

I really appreciate your help on the finer points of NFA transfers.

 

Cheers,

 

sunnybean

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×
×
  • Create New...