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MD20 operating issues


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I sent Mike a PM a few days ago and I have not heard anything back. I assume he is up to his elbows in alligators and just hasn't had time to answer me yet. I hoping someone(s) here could assist me with my MD20 concerns. I will attach the PM I sent to Mike.

 

PM sent to Mike on January 17th:

 

"I received my brand new MD20 drum yesterday which I purchased from XXXXXXX off this forum. I don't know how to tell if it's a 'first batch' drum or not. I took it to the range today and have some small issues and questions:

 

First: You have created a beautiful product. Top notch design and manufacturing. Great job!!! I WILL be getting another one when I have the $$$.

 

After fitting the drum to my Saiga 12 (Required considerable 'B' fitting) I test fired about 200 rounds. I was using cheap Wally-World ammo, but the work I have done to my saiga allows me to shoot this ammo without FTEs... typically.

 

The first issue I have is the angle of the ammo is appears to be much steeper that in a stick mag. The bolt gets stuck going forward on the first round of a full drum every time. What could this be? I can send any pics and/or video if that will assist in troubleshooting.

 

The second issues is FTEs. Out of 5 full drum test fires, only one emptied without an FTE. Do you have any suggestions?

 

I have been in contact with gunfixer and I have made arrangements to purchase one of the last two gas plugs he found. From reading the forum it appears this will help. My Saiga has three unobstructed ports and I have polished the bolt, bolt carrier and breech areas. The guns has about 500 rounds down the tube.

 

Thanks in advance for your prompt reply.

 

Jeffrey"

 

Thanks in advance for your comments and assistance.

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If your feed ramp is off my guess is you did not file enough or too much in either "A" or "B" take a 5 rd factory mag that came with it put it in after taken the bolt out and note how the feed lips sit in. Try to have them match. I had probs at 1st too i took to much off and it ended up breaking when i shot it. Sent it back to mike, (i paid one way shipping) and he fixed it. He fit it to my gun with out ever seeing it, i just gave him an over view of what was wrong. If i was him i would not even be here id be working hard in the shop and over seeing the 2nd run and gas plugs, witch im sure he is. Poor guy must have 20 emails a day at least + spam. Good luck

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JeffD, Sorry for not getting with you sooner. It sounds like you have taken too much off the B fitting. No one should have to take a considerable amount off. I am guessing you have removed around .125" (1/8 inch) or so. Really no one should have to take off more than .020" or so. And most less than that. I am betting the A fitting needed more attention instead.

 

I am fairly certain your problems are being caused by too steep of an angle which can happen if too much of the B fitting is done to compensate for the A fitting. The extra angle is putting more drag on the bolt. And likely cuasing more of a bind when racking the bolt by hand. If you are not quick about letting the bolt go or follow it back even slightly, too much enegry can be lost. One thing you can do to reduce frition is to VERY SLIGHTLY polished the edge off the under side of the feedlips. This will let the shell slide out a lot easier and the edge of the feedlips not to cut in to the rim so much.

 

If you want to send it in I can weld up the mag catch for you.

 

If after you receive it back you still have fte problems you might have to reduce the spring pressure a little bit. This probably won't be needed though as it sounds like the fte's are pretty minor. If it was a major fte problem you probably wouldn't have got through a full drum without one.

 

From the reports I have read, Nate's plug better concentrates the gas on the low brass setting. And it seems to have helped some people with under gased guns get reliability profermance out of the troubled gun. I myself don't have any guns that I could confirm this with though.

 

It really sounds like your feed angle is the real problem though. It should match a 5rd mag's angle unless the B fitting has been way over done.

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JeffD, Sorry for not getting with you sooner. It sounds like you have taken too much off the B fitting. No one should have to take a considerable amount off. I am guessing you have removed around .125" (1/8 inch) or so. Really no one should have to take off more than .020" or so. And most less than that. I am betting the A fitting needed more attention instead.

 

I am fairly certain your problems are being caused by too steep of an angle which can happen if too much of the B fitting is done to compensate for the A fitting. The extra angle is putting more drag on the bolt. And likely cuasing more of a bind when racking the bolt by hand. If you are not quick about letting the bolt go or follow it back even slightly, too much enegry can be lost. One thing you can do to reduce frition is to VERY SLIGHTLY polished the edge off the under side of the feedlips. This will let the shell slide out a lot easier and the edge of the feedlips not to cut in to the rim so much.

 

If you want to send it in I can weld up the mag catch for you.

 

If after you receive it back you still have fte problems you might have to reduce the spring pressure a little bit. This probably won't be needed though as it sounds like the fte's are pretty minor. If it was a major fte problem you probably wouldn't have got through a full drum without one.

 

From the reports I have read, Nate's plug better concentrates the gas on the low brass setting. And it seems to have helped some people with under gased guns get reliability profermance out of the troubled gun. I myself don't have any guns that I could confirm this with though.

 

It really sounds like your feed angle is the real problem though. It should match a 5rd mag's angle unless the B fitting has been way over done.

 

Thanks for getting back to me! I understand you are VERY busy and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to reply. I 'thought' I followed the instruction when I fitted the drum. I will do as suggested and remove the bolt and examine the feed angles of the stock 5 round mag and your drum. If I understand you correctly you can plastic weld up the area where I may have taken too much off during 'B' fitting. I will follow up with pics and comments.

 

Thanks for your attention.

Edited by JeffD
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Here is the drum after 'B' fitting. I removed a small amount at a time, checking for fit frequently. I stopped as soon as I could snap the mag release into place. I worked the mag release from that point on. The drum is still a very tight fit.

 

post-14713-1232558676_thumb.jpg

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Here is a link to a test fire of a full drum.

 

 

If you look at the photos carefully is appears that the MD20 is NOT sitting higher in the rear of the magwell than the stock magazine. The feed lips of the stock mag appear to the parallel with the guide rail for the bolt, whereas the MD20's feed lips and not parallel. The MD20 appears to be sittile lower in the rear, thus the increased angle.

 

Should I remove some material from the bottom side of the front catch of the drum to help reduce this angle?

Edited by JeffD
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This pic of the front of the MD20 drum inserted into my gun really shows the angle of the drum. I'm not sure the drum could go any higher in the front of the magwell. I appears the only way to decrease the angle of the drum would be to raise the rear of the drum when inserted, but how?

 

post-14713-1232561830_thumb.jpg

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Don't mess with the front mag catch. There has been too much material removed from the B fitting. You will need to send the drum in for repair. If you look into your receiver you will see there is interferance on the A fitting. This is what is messing up your feed angle. I detailed this on your pic below. You should go back and round the A fitting more with a small file. The ledge on the towers exterior should be meeting up with the bottom of your receiver. If you look now you will see a substaintial gap. Once the A fitting is complete you will also see the angle drop down to match your 5 rd mag.

 

Important! After you do the A fitting don't try to fire your gun. All the material removed from the bottom of the mag catch will still keep the angle off. And there will be a lot of front to back play in the drum. The severly thinned mag catch might not take the hammering this will cause. Right now your drum is tight because of the interference of the incomplete A fitting. Wait to fire it until I have repaired it!

 

You have to enlarge the pic for the details.

 

post-2662-1232585160_thumb.jpg

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Don't mess with the front mag catch. There has been too much material removed from the B fitting. You will need to send the drum in for repair. If you look into your receiver you will see there is interferance on the A fitting. This is what is messing up your feed angle. I detailed this on your pic below. You should go back and round the A fitting more with a small file. The ledge on the towers exterior should be meeting up with the bottom of your receiver. If you look now you will see a substaintial gap. Once the A fitting is complete you will also see the angle drop down to match your 5 rd mag.

 

Important! After you do the A fitting don't try to fire your gun. All the material removed from the bottom of the mag catch will still keep the angle off. And there will be a lot of front to back play in the drum. The severly thinned mag catch might not take the hammering this will cause. Right now your drum is tight because of the interference of the incomplete A fitting. Wait to fire it until I have repaired it!

 

You have to enlarge the pic for the details.

 

post-2662-1232585160_thumb.jpg

 

 

Roger... Wilco.

 

I understand this issue is due to me removing too much material from 'B' fitting and not enough from 'A' fitting. I thought I understood the directions that came with the drum. I feel embarrassed considering my years of experience. I will pay to have any necessary repairs made to my drum.

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Im kinda curiouse, I also had to remove a fair amount of material from the fitting b location, i dont think it was excessive, but can i see a pic of the drum inserted into your gun from the side? i just want to see if you made it flush with the sort of flange that exists at the bottom of the feed tower.

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DUH! :angry:

 

You can tell Mike KNOWS everything about these drums!

 

His post was exactly correct!

 

I did some additional 'A' fitting and the drum now fully seats in the rear of the magwell. I only removed a VERY SMALL amount (More like reshaping than removing) from the top rear edge.

 

Had I done this correctly BEFORE going nuts with the 'B' fitting, I would not be sending my drum back to Mike for repair.

 

Again Mike was correct in the fact that my drum is now VERY loose. I have taken WAY TOO MUCH off the 'B' fitting which allows the drum to move up and down.

 

Thanks again for all of the help!

 

Here are two pics of my current 'A' fitting.

 

post-14713-1232651160_thumb.jpg

 

post-14713-1232651191_thumb.jpg

 

For those who follow in my footsteps, don't do any 'B' fitting until you have checked out and UNDERSTAND the 'A' fitting first. I THOUGHT I had read and understood the instructions... Now I'm sending my drum back for repair. :cryss:

 

Only a VERY SMALL amount of material needs to be removed from the 'A' fitting to make a HUGE difference in the way the drum seats in the magwell.

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LOL :lol: That is exactly what i did but mine broke from taking to much off. Told ya, Mike is the man. Side note after beating the crap out of my drum the only mags i think you could argue about witch ones tougher are the 8rd Izhmash mags. This thing is a zombie fighters wet dream.

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LOL :lol: That is exactly what i did but mine broke from taking to much off. Told ya, Mike is the man. Side note after beating the crap out of my drum the only mags i think you could argue about witch ones tougher are the 8rd Izhmash mags. This thing is a zombie fighters wet dream.

 

I'm doing some testing on the Promag 10 round mags right now and I think they are much beefier than the other manufactures mags I currently have. I think these will be my mag of choice assuming they hold up to testing. 200+ low brass without a hitch so far.

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Don't mess with the front mag catch. There has been too much material removed from the B fitting. You will need to send the drum in for repair. If you look into your receiver you will see there is interferance on the A fitting. This is what is messing up your feed angle. I detailed this on your pic below. You should go back and round the A fitting more with a small file. The ledge on the towers exterior should be meeting up with the bottom of your receiver. If you look now you will see a substaintial gap. Once the A fitting is complete you will also see the angle drop down to match your 5 rd mag.

 

Important! After you do the A fitting don't try to fire your gun. All the material removed from the bottom of the mag catch will still keep the angle off. And there will be a lot of front to back play in the drum. The severly thinned mag catch might not take the hammering this will cause. Right now your drum is tight because of the interference of the incomplete A fitting. Wait to fire it until I have repaired it!

 

You have to enlarge the pic for the details.

 

post-2662-1232585160_thumb.jpg

 

 

Roger... Wilco.

 

I understand this issue is due to me removing too much material from 'B' fitting and not enough from 'A' fitting. I thought I understood the directions that came with the drum. I feel embarrassed considering my years of experience. I will pay to have any necessary repairs made to my drum.

I'll do it for free! It will only take 15 minutes if that. I am revising the instruction manual as well to better point things out. Pretty soon I'll have a PDF on my site so people can print a new insruction manual as well.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Mike -

 

Could you please give me an update in the drum I sent back for repair on January 22nd?

 

I'm deploying to Afghanistan VERY soon (34 days left at home)... hoping to take Saiga/drum with me.

 

JD

 

I sent Mike a PM a few days ago and I have not heard anything back. I assume he is up to his elbows in alligators and just hasn't had time to answer me yet. I hoping someone(s) here could assist me with my MD20 concerns. I will attach the PM I sent to Mike.

 

PM sent to Mike on January 17th:

 

"I received my brand new MD20 drum yesterday which I purchased from XXXXXXX off this forum. I don't know how to tell if it's a 'first batch' drum or not. I took it to the range today and have some small issues and questions:

 

First: You have created a beautiful product. Top notch design and manufacturing. Great job!!! I WILL be getting another one when I have the $$$.

 

After fitting the drum to my Saiga 12 (Required considerable 'B' fitting) I test fired about 200 rounds. I was using cheap Wally-World ammo, but the work I have done to my saiga allows me to shoot this ammo without FTEs... typically.

 

The first issue I have is the angle of the ammo is appears to be much steeper that in a stick mag. The bolt gets stuck going forward on the first round of a full drum every time. What could this be? I can send any pics and/or video if that will assist in troubleshooting.

 

The second issues is FTEs. Out of 5 full drum test fires, only one emptied without an FTE. Do you have any suggestions?

 

I have been in contact with gunfixer and I have made arrangements to purchase one of the last two gas plugs he found. From reading the forum it appears this will help. My Saiga has three unobstructed ports and I have polished the bolt, bolt carrier and breech areas. The guns has about 500 rounds down the tube.

 

Thanks in advance for your prompt reply.

 

Jeffrey"

 

Thanks in advance for your comments and assistance.

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Thanks for the info Mike.

 

I checked the UPS tracking number for the return shipping lable I put in the box and I don't see any activity. Did you create a new UPS shipment? Do you have that tracking number? Did it actually ship today?

 

 

Jeff, It is packed up and ready to go. It will be picked up tomorrow by UPS. Your gas plug will be included as well. Sorry for the delay.
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