second shooter 22 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 hi, im thinking about making some less lethal 12ga ammo, i have some inch thick rubber and i intend to punch out plugs and load them up. so ammo gurus, should i use a normal wadd or just one of those cups that go over the powder? any idea on what weight of powder? also interested in trying some bean bag rounds, has anybody made any? i dont think these will be powerful enough to run my saiga but should go fine in my 590. also interested in any other less lethal loads you may have made? cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
turbo1889 1 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 Here is a copy and paste from another forum of the load info for a "less lethal" load I developed: . . . Okay, found it in my book (quite a while back in the book in fact). Please note, this combination has not, I repeat NOT, been pressure tested. This should be interpreted as a roughly scribbled hand drawn map handed down by a guy who wandered out into "no published load data land" and him and his guns came back in one piece. If you follow said map you do so at your own peril. Load as listed in my notes: ____________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________ _____ Hull ~ 2-3/4" Remington Sport Load Hull _____________ _____ Primer ~ CCI 209 Magnum Primer ___________________ _____ Charge ~ 15 grains Bullseye Powder ________________ _____ Wad ~ WAA-12 with cushion cut out _______________ _____ Load ~ 45 Soft Air Pellets and a 2.8cc ______________ ____________ Lee powder dipper of Cream of ______________ ____________ Wheat as a buffer. ________________________ ________________ (or) ________________________________ ____________ 41 rubber pellets for kids toy guns ___________ ____________ "Supper Shot" brand ______________________ ____________ with no buffer material. ____________________ _____ Crimp ~ A good solid 8 point trap load crimp __________ ____________________________________________________ ____________________________________________________ Notes: ~ This load was tuned to prevent "blooper loads" and at 15 to 20 yards match the penetration of S&B commercial rubber buck shot loads in a styrofoam sheet (about 1/4 inch). S&B cautions that their loads are still lethal at short range which is apparently less than 15-20 yards that I tested at. The same precaution would logically apply to these loads. ~ For this load is you use a razor knife to cut out the cushion section of a WAA-12 wad so that only the bottom gas seal "piston" and top shot cup remain in order to get enough shot into the hull for the load to work correctly. This process is not difficult but is time consuming. Watch your fingers with the razor knife. ~ The Soft Air Pellets can be found at Wal-Mart for about $20 for a tub of 10,000. The rubber toy gun ammo, however, is a little more difficult to find and more expensive. The brand I used is known as "Supper Shot" and says right on the front of the package that it is for use in "Zebra" and "All Super Shot Brand" toy guns there are 200 pellets in a $2.00 package. As far as what your trying to do the only thing that worries me is the fact that rubber likes to stick and cling to both itself and everything else (Put a rubber pad on table. Push down on rubber pad and try to slide it sideways at the same time. Doesn't want to slide does it.) I definitely would not punch them out full bore diameter and load them straight up, I'd be too worried about them sticking to the barrel walls and creating a constriction in the barrel and a resulting Ka-Boom !!!. I would either punch them out at about 0.650" to 0.680" diameter and stack them inside a wad, preferably a deep steel shot wad so they would never touch the barrel or wrap a stack of them with a brown paper coil, like paper patching, and load them on top of a gas seal cut off the bottom of a trap wad. Either way I'd be darn careful about making sure there wasn't any rubber to barrel metal contact. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted January 21, 2009 Report Share Posted January 21, 2009 If you are going to use them in a defensive role, BUY THEM. Otherwise the lawyers will drill you a new one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ballistician 1 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Is this for fun? Otherwise... Less than lethal has little place on the civilian market. We are not riot cops (99% of us). The only reason you point a firearm at a person, deer, paper or ming vase is you're willing to destroy it. Firearms are a tool for killing; if your life is in danger to the point you need to shoot at anything, you should be killing it. If this is for fun, go for it! If you are considering this as a round for personal home defense you might want to research it and possibly pay the fee for a couple of hours of a lawyers time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pdbh171 0 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 We have all heard about the legendary "rock salt" load.....has any tried black pepper corn, whole or the "cracked black". how about "salt & pepper? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
second shooter 22 Posted January 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Thanks for the info guys, firstly, i dont intend to shoot anybody with them, in new zealand you can not use a firearm to defend yourself! a few people have done so and got off but its just not necessary here. i work in the high voltage substations and every now and then we get possums on the live gear running about untill they short themselves out trying to cross back to earth (even 33kv shorting to earth causes a fair amount on damage to our equipment). i want a very light round that will knock them down without damaging the porcelan insulators or live lines. very sensible idea about using a full length wadd or brown paper to wrap the plug i may even try and get some of those rubber balls, last thing i want is a blow up! cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ballistician 1 Posted January 22, 2009 Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Well sure, who'd you shoot with a population density of 15 ppl/km^2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
second shooter 22 Posted January 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2009 Well sure, who'd you shoot with a population density of 15 ppl/km^2. well done, i didnt even know that! i live in the south island ,there are even less people here. we have almost no gun crime compared to the US, i did see on the news tonight that we have had 21 people shot dead in hunting accidents in the last 10 years. what sort of stats do you have over there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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