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Another member and I are going to trade firearms and neither of us have ever done so. I've bought from dealers before and they always make you send it to a FFL. Is it illegal to send it straight to another person? Whats the LEGAL way to do this? And there is no possible way for a face to face...

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It's illegal to ship a firearm directly to someone that doesn't have an FFL, AFAIK. You'll each have to ship it to an FFL (gunshop whatever) and pay their transfer fees.

This is somewhat incorrect.

 

It is legal to ship firearms directly to residents of your state, provided they are not barred from ownership.

 

All you are responsible for is asking them this. If they say they can own them, you've legally covered yourself.

 

Shipping a gun - THR << ---- links to the federal laws and shippers polices.

 

You are responsible for knowing your state and local laws.

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Out of state trades? Sure, they gotta go through an FFL.

 

The feds see intrastate shipping the same way as they see FTF deals.

 

 

Some states don't allow shipping directly to another resident *cough*Kommifornia*cough* so ya gotta know your state and local laws.

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In the state of FL, you are allowed to ship a firearm DIRECTLY to a private buyer as long as the buyer is legally eligible (seller's responsibility) You MUST declare that it is a firearm to the shipping company (UPS) and you should be good to go. Outside the state in FL MUST be sent to a FFL dealer. So, these rules may apply to you in your state, best thing to do is check a trading forum in your state.

Edited by Vultite
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I ALWAYS do the deed in person, myself, or it goes to a dealer and a NICS check is done.

 

As far as I am aware, it is illegal to transfer a firearm to a new owner via the mail, even if its your neighbor.

 

Im going to do what everyone has often done to me over the years, and have to insist on the copy of the law(s) that does, or does not state this. I know I hate it, but Im sorry, please explain this to me. i understand that it is not legal, and still must go through a NICS check. This is not kin, next of kin, personal long time friend, wife, debt you are paying (that one I believe still must go through NICS) etc etc.

 

As a trade from someone you both know only from internet or conversations, it must be either in person, and I suggest you both fill out two of the same reciepts like I always do, or it has to get run into a NICS check on both ends. maybe you can send it striaght to the other, but its got to get NICS on it.

 

If I am wrong in my thinking, I think it serious enough of an issue if I AM right, that I would like to see the laws saying this, or the laws encompassing the place it DONT say so. I am sure that you all understand my skepticism.

 

I will also note, that this is a mute point as far as me personally is concerned, now that I work with Mr and Mrs Cole.

 

 

I dont wish to argue at all, I just want to see where the above mentioned procedure is legal, is all. I know it wouldnt apply to anything at CGW, but I would like to know if this is true or not for private firearms exchanges.

 

 

this would have been a good question to ask the NICS people at SHOT. im sorry that this didnt come up sooner, or I would have asked just to satisfy my curiosity of it.

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This is borrowed from a local FL forum for selling/trading: This applies to private person to person sales.

 

It is possible to ship a firearm to someone within the state of Florida. However, if using the US Postal Service you can only ship long guns and they must be declared as such.

 

Both handguns and long guns can be shipped by other carriers (UPS, FedEx, ect.) as long as they are declared as such and as long as that carrier allows for it. If not declared, it's a felony.

 

If sending out of state the transaction must take place through an FFL, meaning that the firearm must be shipped to an FFL where it is to be picked up by the recipient.

18 USC 1715

18 USC 1716

 

NOTE: HEAVY penalties can be brought against you if any reason the trade or action of the trade is not properly handled and/or legal. As B said above, FTF is the way to roll if you can, but if you know and trust the person, shipping is no biggie, as long as there is a CLEAR understanding between you and the carrier you choose.

Edited by Vultite
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so where in what you say word for word, can i view on a .gov website? a cornell.edu host is bonified, as well, i recognize.

 

the laws you cited specifically state that unless you are doing official business, that it is prohibited?

 

 

what you just said, vultite, where is it?

 

 

I do see in your second laws reference, which ALSO does not say what you state, that in rare cases results in imprisonment for life, or the death penalty?

 

 

where did you get what you said in your previous post ? I dont see it? I really would like this loophole demonstrated to me, for real. I simply do not see it. help a moron out, will ya?

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"Such articles may be conveyed in the mails, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe, for use in connection with their official duty, to officers of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Marine Corps, or Organized Reserve Corps; to officers of the National Guard or Militia of a State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District; to officers of the United States or of a State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District whose official duty is to serve warrants of arrest or commitments; to employees of the Postal Service; to officers and employees of enforcement agencies of the United States; and to watchmen engaged in guarding the property of the United States, a State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District. Such articles also may be conveyed in the mails to manufacturers of firearms or bona fide dealers therein in customary trade shipments, including such articles for repairs or replacement of parts, from one to the other, under such regulations as the Postal Service shall prescribe. "

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I still wouldnt transfer a longarm to someone i dont know through the mail.

 

I am going to inquire about this, just because I believe you guys, but cannot see an exemption, other than that which is not named....(sorry)

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well,i somehow doubt i could find a law on any government website that would say anything clearly regarding firearms. they make it vague for a reason, but you can't go wrong with FTF sales. If your a FFL holder, you cannot just mail out items to buyers, but private sellers may at their own risk. Basically you may ship to a person in the same state as long as you super duper cover your ass, if you mess up you may get put in a federal pound me in the ass prison. Nothing that actually clearly says its ok, probably is a loophole, just like in the state of FL your allowed to purchase a handgun at the age of 18 from a private seller only. There's actual state statutes that somewhat clearly show it, unfortunately i don't have the time trying to find those (i once found them when i bought my first gun at the age of 18 ;) i had to produce the law to buy it from the guy hehehe)

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yeh, there is definately some funk to it.

 

 

lets just let them pass MORE laws, instead of working out the ones that they WANTED.

 

Like I said, I believe you, but I really would like to see it demonstrated on paper.

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It is PERFECTLY LEGAL to ship a LONG gun via USPS, as long as you DO NOT write anywhere on the outside of the box that it contains a firearm. If the package is going across state lines then it HAS TO go to an FFL. It can be shipped from a private individual, but it MUST go to an FFL and be legally transferred to the buyer.

You can also ship any long gun via USPS, to a manufacturer. You can ship a handgun to a manufacturer for repair service but they have to go thru another carrier like UPS or Fed Ex. They also cannot be picked up at your home, or dropped off at a regular UPS / Fed Ex store. They have to go to a special Home Office of the carrier.

A manufacturer can ship a gun (including handguns) straight to an individual, even out of state. Sturm Ruger shipped me my Blackhawk this way once after doing some repairs to it.

 

I have also heard from several different people who KNOW, that it's legal to ship a long gun to another resident of your own state. You can even ship a firearm to your self.

 

I have never tried this but I have sold and shipped long guns to out of state FFLs (ONLY) myself, through the USPS and I know damn well it's legal. I researched it to death before ever doing so.

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Y'all need to put the sh*t stick down.

 

(B7) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?[back]

 

A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.

 

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

It doesn't say anything against handguns being traded 'tween same-state residents, so long as you don't use the US Mail to do so.

 

UPS even covers intrastate firearms shipments between private parties in their policy.

 

I guess y'all missed my link in my first post in this thread, huh?

Edited by nalioth
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nalioth - I did NOT miss your link. It is NOT .gov or .edu with provenance. it is a .org. I am not knocking your source. where does this .ORG get its sources to conclusion? I want a link to gov or cornell.edu that states it.

 

Im serious, your turn to dig. I dont see it still.

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what if u ship a firearm t he manufacturer to be repaired?

no sale is taking place.

its just parts to be be repaired...

 

you may ship for repair, and then receive a repaired firearm, from said reparier, without NICS, from recognized (contracted) repairers, as this does not transfer the firearm in any way shape or form. this goes across state lines, as well, and requires above references to handguns and such, for shipping rules.....I do know that much...

 

 

but i still dont follow? If I transfer a gun to someone that I dont know, that isnt in front of my physically, what says I can do this, as a private citizen, with my own firearms? Thats a straw purchase via proxy, is it not?

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nalioth - I did NOT miss your link. It is NOT .gov or .edu with provenance. it is a .org. I am not knocking your source. where does this .ORG get its sources to conclusion? I want a link to gov or cornell.edu that states it.

 

Im serious, your turn to dig. I dont see it still.

The "org" has links to .gov and the shippers which covers all of this.

 

I'm in no way, shape or form saying that a bunch of forum folks are lawmakers. The link has a very good set of links to the government web sites, as well as to US postal service and private shippers.

 

 

Most forums don't have a thread with all that stuff in it, so I link over there quite often.

 

as far as "my turn to dig" goes, I included the statute number in my previous post. Are you unable to use google to find it?

Edited by nalioth
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im not interpreting this. what does your .org post?

 

im sorry, nowhere does it say that you DONT have to transfer through NICS any firearm that you dont personally know in one way or another, the recipient!

 

 

where is your .org saying this, nalioth? im sure that fine and dandy in a small town, as you can relent that you may possibly know that person, but someoone that dude DONT know, inside the same state? show me. I dont buy it, even still.

 

 

spare me the .org sites, ok?

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I don't think you're reading properly, bvamp.

 

The "org" doesn't say bupkus about any of this - IT CONTAINS LINKS TO THE GOVERNMENT WEBSITES THAT DO

 

Edited to add:

 

Here ya go: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=34686 Looks like a Tech Section sticky to me.

Edited by nalioth
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