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Did anyone on this forum know about this?


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http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread...6694&page=2

 

 

quoted

01-25-2009,

I am in the process of working up a quote to build the trunions and barrels for Florida law enforcement on these shotguns. It will be my first in depth analysis of them (Saigas). Having said that, it is safe to say that if FL has given the nod to departmental use and acquisition of them, they must be fairly decent.

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Haha, they said Saigas aren't as reliable as Benelli gas guns. That's... that's just fucking hilarious. I'll be over here laughing my ass off.

 

Everything about Benelli is shitty and pathetic, everything. Except their pump gun. Best pump gun ever.

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Had their inertia semi for about 1 week if you didn't hold it tight to your shoulder it wouldn't feed the next round. Come on if you can't hold it at your hip and have it work when it is clean how the hell can you expect it to work when you really need it to? I had high hopes for it to I mean $800 for a used one with factory mag extension how could you go wrong? I have that much in my new saiga 12 (without mags) :beaten: But it has worked.

Edited by Racer 27
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My two cents, people can say what ever they want. Truth be told, there are more ney sayers out there than not. People always seem to have to put there own spin on things for what ever "little man syndrome" reason. I for one find the siaga to be a rock solid platform. True, there may be a wide variance in tolerences, but the firearm itself is as reliable if not more than, most of the high dollar weapons available. There are some out there who are quick to talk down something they do not understand. I say this, put one in your hands, test drive it up against any shotty on the market and tell me its a piece o shit. Not gonna happen. If police departments want the reliability and ass raping nature, then I say go with the saiga. If they would rather spend way to much on the benelli, then shame on them. Just because its made in Russia does not mean its a piece of shit. To all my saiga loven brothers out there - hooo-fucken-ra!

 

DT

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Here's some gems from that thread:

 

Apparently after extensive conversions and upgrades, they are pretty reliable and fun to shoot.

 

They look cool.

 

I've never shot one, only seen them.

 

More reliable? I highly, highly doubt it.

 

So unless an S12 is extensively converted and upgraded, it's unreliable and a bore to shoot? :rolleyes:

 

I rank the Saiga 12 right up there with bullpup converted 10/22's. Sure they look neat but after using one you soon find out they are crap.

 

Like some girls the Saiga is good from far, but far from good.

 

Wow. I bet he hasn't even handled or shot one.

 

If Fla. L/E is looking at them, you can bet the choice is being made on a "Budget" basis. Not because it is a decent weapon.

 

:lol::rolleyes:

 

 

 

They sound like the shotgun version of AR snobs.

 

Ah well. More Saigas for us then.

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I watched a fellow fire his brand new semi Benelli.

 

After three rounds the mag cap came off and the spring flew about 8 feet in front of him.

 

 

 

 

Now does that mean ALL Benellis are bad?

Don't know.

But this is exactly how those punk post over there.

ONE bad experience or rumor and ALL are bad!

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I wonder if this has anything to do with Tromix? I thought Tony had mad some items for Florida LE about a year ago for evaluation. The second question is did I read it right that Benelli was going to make a Saiga 12 trunion and barrel, and if so, why did they pick these parts only?

Last, I think the only way to compare the two guns would be a modified Saiga vs a traditional or slightly modified Benelli which puts them in the same price range generally. Now you just need to look at reliability and what job your wanting to do with it from a LE stance. The Saiga definately wins hands down for short barrel, high capacity situations. Just like all other duty guns, I think departments have to re-evaluate there inventory from time to time. Not many coppers carrying wheel guns these days, reliable or not.

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Just my opinion, being that I own both a Saiga 12 and an M3 Super 90......

 

 

The Benelli has worked fine for me on semi auto with all but the lightest rounds. Switching it to pump handles everything I've ever put through it. It's nice from the standpoint of being able to switch to a pump in a second to fire LTL rounds or whatever, not that I fire them much. The mag capacity is (I believe) 8 rounds of standard 2 3/4" and I'm thinking 6 for 3" magnum. It's been over a year since I've fired it though, so I may be off on those numbers. It's a pretty lightweight package compared to the Saiga. Handling is fine and the rubberized pistol grip is comfortable. Being a lefty (not by choice), the safety on the Benelli is far easier for me to manipulate than the AK styled one on the Saiga. Not having a mag sticking out the bottom MIGHT let it be a little less prone to snagging on doorways, I suppose.

 

Having said all that....

 

 

I much prefer my S-12 over the Benelli in terms of reliability, ease of reloading (on an open bolt), and firepower. I have to say though, it's nothing to swap out the round in the chamber without loading the next round from the magazine in the Benelli. My Saiga is more nose heavy than the Benelli, but that's ok. The S-12's gas setting allows me to cycle pretty much anything except some LTL (still haven't tested too many). The sheer number of accessories avalable for the AK that will work, or can be modified to work with the Saiga allows for much more variance in how you configure it as well.

 

So overall, my opinion is that the Saiga is a better weapon with many more options. There's only a few things that I feel the Benelli might have in its favor over the S-12. Reliability isn't one of them. For me, that's one of the most important things to look at. I'll probably be selling my Benelli soon I think.

 

 

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Corbin

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I rank the Saiga 12 right up there with bullpup converted 10/22's. Sure they look neat but after using one you soon find out they are crap.

 

Like some girls the Saiga is good from far, but far from good.

 

Wow. I bet he hasn't even handled or shot one.

 

 

Or handled a girl for that matter

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I used an M1014 (aka Benelli M4). That's the weapon I'm holding in my avatar pic while sitting on a busted motorcycle my patrol ran across in Ramadi.

 

Anyway, if I could choose between the two the Saiga-12 wins hands down for two reasons.

1) I can switch to slugs much easier by having mags dedicated to them.

2) It cycles faster.

The second part may be subjective on my end, I don't have the cyclic rates off the top of my head for both weapons. But I swear if I had a 9 round mag I could get them off faster than I could the 9 rounds in the M1014 tube.

 

And the Benelli member who likened the S-12 to a bullpup 10/22 was an idiot, pure and simple. He had no freaking idea what he was talking about and didn't know enough to keep his mouth shut.

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yea, what do we expect out of a benelli board? HA!

 

I've certainly seen them have issues, I don't know how they got the rep as being uber reliable. Some of that's shooter/tinker induced ... some of it is the platform. For instance, putting a sidesaddle on with a little pressure turned my friends into a single shot at one match.

 

But I don't get the fascination with cycling speed, I can't out run one anyways ... don't know if any human can. Seems more like bragging rights but has little to do with my everyday use?

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I know a few members here might have a hand in the acceptance of this fine weapon into FL states' armories.

 

REAL glad to hear this.

 

This state has the most usefulness and diversity of application that I have ever seen. and i live here....

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I know a few members here might have a hand in the acceptance of this fine weapon into FL states' armories.

 

REAL glad to hear this.

 

This state has the most usefulness and diversity of application that I have ever seen. and i live here....

 

Talking about law enforcement, I found this rather interesting on that same site.

 

http://www.benelliusa.com/forum/showthread...7891&page=3

(Mike Grasso post #26)

OK, Here we go again.

 

First, All you need is one. Why take the chance. So when I advise to err on the side of caution it's good advice.

 

Second, Check my website. Until recently I was partners in one of the largest Weapons Prop houses in Hollywood. I had daily contact with the BATF because we had an inventory of more than 1500 MG's, SBS's and DD's. So I've driven that turnip truck.

 

My experience with Federal law is quite extensive and like I originally quoted "There are legality issues when placing an extension on your M4. Unless you are LE Officer and the weapon is used on duty, BATF will have a canary. only comes from a recent sit down with BATF on this exact subject and this exact weapon when the Los Angeles Police Department instituted a private purchase program for it's Officers."

 

They made their augument quite clear.

 

The M4 shotguns that were already mag extended for police work

beyond the typical 5 rounds were causing a panic with the BATF

when private ownership was the case. Without actually violating

the 922r law, simply passing a higher capacity shotgun out of

the armory caused the stir. Who would of thought that uncle Sam

even still cared about stuff like this. What does the gov version

hold in the mag tube 9 max?

Edited by my762buzz
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which mag tube max? the italian made mag extensions or what?
. But I swear if I had a 9 round mag I could get them off faster than I could the 9 rounds in the M1014 tube.

I guess the factory one holds 9

I would think the Los Angelos ones are stock factory police contract

Edited by my762buzz
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I have shot the benelli and know for fact that you cant load rounds sidesadle or the gun wont function,, the gun has to be held properly or it wont run either. Ill take a Saiga anyday over any shotgun for reliability except for a 870,, apples and oranges. Fuck the the benelli snobs.

 

The Benelli M4 has a big following, but I would have to agree that the Saiga is

far more reliable.

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See my post at the bottom of the thread. I went back after reading it and edited to make it a little less flame and more opinion. It wasn't my intent to start a flame war just to make them think.....

 

The guy who replied to your post never really went into why he thinks Saigas are "not of decent quality". :rolleyes:

 

(By the way, you think Saigas/AK's are ugly?!?!? I think some guns have an odd look to them, but AK's in general are pure sexiness :wub: )

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See my post at the bottom of the thread. I went back after reading it and edited to make it a little less flame and more opinion. It wasn't my intent to start a flame war just to make them think.....

 

The guy who replied to your post never really went into why he thinks Saigas are "not of decent quality". :rolleyes:

 

(By the way, you think Saigas/AK's are ugly?!?!? I think some guns have an odd look to them, but AK's in general are pure sexiness :wub: )

 

LOL. Actually I think stock Saigas look....well I guess odd is the right way to put it. I was thinking stock when I said ugly. I just picked up a brand new Tromix S06 last week and it's the sexiest thing I've ever seen in my life and I have a lot of sexy things in my safe. After seeing the guys response I'm glad I went back and softened things up a bit. He seems like a nice enough guy. The guy that needs blasting is the guy that compares a converted Saiga to a bullpup 10-22.

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See my post at the bottom of the thread. I went back after reading it and edited to make it a little less flame and more opinion. It wasn't my intent to start a flame war just to make them think.....

 

The guy who replied to your post never really went into why he thinks Saigas are "not of decent quality". :rolleyes:

 

(By the way, you think Saigas/AK's are ugly?!?!? I think some guns have an odd look to them, but AK's in general are pure sexiness :wub: )

 

LOL. Actually I think stock Saigas look....well I guess odd is the right way to put it. I was thinking stock when I said ugly. I just picked up a brand new Tromix S06 last week and it's the sexiest thing I've ever seen in my life and I have a lot of sexy things in my safe. After seeing the guys response I'm glad I went back and softened things up a bit. He seems like a nice enough guy. The guy that needs blasting is the guy that compares a converted Saiga to a bullpup 10-22.

 

pretty sure in his mind, he made the comparison to point out that it is more of a "toy" than anything.

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benelli shooters often extend mag tubes and have pistol grips .. I believe this combination made them "unimportable" because they weren't suitable for "sporting purposes" so they must follow 922r. But the domestic parts just aren't there for compliance. They are VERY popular amongst 3gunners. Used to have this conversation with them around the AWB sunset ... most seemed to go with the "everyone is doing it" defense.

 

Truth be told, it'll take some poor schmoo to get busted and there will be a run on the market ... or, things will continue with the state it is in ..

 

That state is:

The law is stupid

It does not affect crime rates or keep anyone safer

no one really cares about spending energy to enforce the law for the above reasons.

 

I mean, come on already. It's a traditional tube feeder. maxing the tube out and putting a pistol grip can be done on a gazillion remmy's, brownings and winchesters that are already out there so importing doesn't spike the number of these "dangerous" weapons and preventing it wouldn't reduce the number of these "non sporting firearms" in the general populace.

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