TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 7, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 I suppose I could make the gas tube rail a bit taller so it would be on the same plane as the rear, but like I said in my earlier post, the chance of your gas tube and top cover being perfectly aligned, is rather remote. I am not sure how far off those two parts may be, since I have never checked alignment of the top cover to the gas tube. Some guys would want the two rails to be on the same plane, but others want a rail that is as low as possible.....which in this case would be a rail slammed down as low as possible on the gas tube. I wasn't planning on providing them with sights....especially now since there is an extreme HK sight shortage. They are all hung up in Customs at the moment. Another rear sight option is to use the XS ghost ring on the back. Bob and I discussed making new front sights as well, and if Customs doesn't clear the HK shipment in a week or so, I won't have much of a choice, other than making them myself. When I get the first rails made, I will fit one up tight on a rifle, (Valmet 76) top it with a big scope and shoot some groups to show it can hold zero. I have done it before on the same rifle with a cheap chinese top cover and actually got some groups under 1" for five at a 100 yards. I'm not worried about it holding zero, but I'll test it since there are so many naysayers on the issue. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TronJohn 1 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Why are things held up in customs right now? Seems silly that HK sights are hard to obtain... so clearly there is a bigger issue at hand? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gmorgan 2 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Why are things held up in customs right now? Seems silly that HK sights are hard to obtain... so clearly there is a bigger issue at hand? And that would be like ...what ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdeitch 32 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Very interesting... Check out my comment made on Jan. 6th in this topic: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=33852&hl= If HK sights are so difficult to get, try SIG sights. I really like the 550 series weapons I have shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 $200 bucks for the rear and $100 bucks for the front....yeah, I'm sure my customer's will be all over that....... And that's for the sights only, no mounting bases, and no labor for the install. You're looking at $500 to put some Sig sights on your S-12. OK, let me think about it for a minute.....pass. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lance 4 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 reason I want the rear and front rails to be on the same plane is so I can play around with some different sights. like the flip up sights for AR15s and stuffff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 Reasonable enough. Let me see what I can do about getting the gas tube rail to line up with the top cover rail. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cynical 8 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 How about a long gas tube rail that extends (cantilevers) over the top cover? It would be higher than a normal gas tube rail, but you would end up with a full length rail in one piece rather than trying to keep two aligned. You'd have to make it high enough for the cover to be removeable, and to be stiff enough it wouldn't be light, but it would be a lot lighter than the big extended four-rail handguards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 (edited) I always thought that if a part were fabricated to mount in the rear sight dove tail, it would make for a good piviot point for a rail hinge. Also, for loose covers and people with access to a spot welder, it's easy to spot weld a small band across the back of the receiver cover to add material and slowly remove a bit from the front with a belt sander(or the like) for a honeymoon fit top cover. (I did it on the one pictured. The Galil also has it but I don't know the exact reason why.) There are definately things that can be done to the cover to tighten it up. Edited February 8, 2009 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 That dovetail cut for the OEM rear sight is one of the most dicked up machining operations on the whole gun. The slot is rarely square/straight compared to anything else on the gun. That's why most of the Ultimak rails lean to one side or the other when mounted. The few that I did install, had to be completely reworked to get the Ultimak to sit on the gun straight. That's why I discontinued it. It's no problem installing trinkets on your S-12.....but installing them STRAIGHT is a completely different issue. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted February 8, 2009 Report Share Posted February 8, 2009 That's why I like installing AK or HK sights on S12s, 'cause I just weld up that dovetail. I line everything up when putting it on, so it's straight. Tony's right guys, everything on these guns, and even regular AKs looks like it's been thrown together by a 4 year old, nothing's ever close to straight. Plus, what kind of pinpoint accuracy are you looking for out of a shotgun? It's not a rifle, and never will be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macgyverhk 3 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Can one buy a rail from you that is the same height as your top-cover rail but welds onto the front and rear gas blocks? They may be on the same plane as the top cover. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
csmw 98 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 That HK picatinny is awesome! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
73cj5 1 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Tony, Do you have a price for installing these on your HK rear site topcovers? Would the pricing include refinishing? This would be awesome on my S17!!! When would you start taking order for these? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I should be able to quote a price tomorrow. The gas tube rail price will be next week. I also have an oversized bolt-on charging handle extension that will be coming out in the next couple of weeks well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregmeboe@gmail.com 3 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I should be able to quote a price tomorrow. The gas tube rail price will be next week. I also have an oversized bolt-on charging handle extension that will be coming out in the next couple of weeks well. Thanks for keeping us posted. It's got to be a lot of work to monitor all this traffic AND design & build parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtnichols 51 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Go to Tromix website, he has the weld on ones for sale there Nice. I was just going to go look (Google) for something like this and one that weld to the top of the gas tube. Do they even make one that welds to the top of the gas tube? I will be waiting for this.............. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 ... Nothing would line up worth a shit like that anyway. Keep in mind guys.....your gun is not assembled even romotely straight from the factory. Your trunion is not riveted in the channel straight. It could be shot in to the left, right, up down, or a combination. Your top cover isn't straight either. It may sit rocked to the right, left, twisted, or shifted side to side, whatever. Your gas tube and gas manifold aren't made right either, let alone installed right. The barrel isn't even pressed in the trunion straight, many times. You put that whole combination of fucked up parts with fucked up assembly, then just "slap" on a Tromix sight/scope mount (which is straight) and the chances of everything lining up is close to ZERO, unless it is all fitted, and lined up with a bore laser. Even then, with everything hitting at point of aim, it still may not "look" straight, because the sight mount has to be "aimed" at the bore path regardless of where all your other fucked up parts are pointed. The only thing I can guarantee is that the sights will be in line with the bore and you can hit what you are aiming at.....that's about the best case scenario considering what we have to work with here. Tony Thanks for answering my question Tony. You've confirmed my suspicions about dust cover rails. I really hope you can find a way to fix the alignment issues. Until then I guess I'll just stick to the stock side mount as the gun was originally designed for. Its either that or getting a Beryl style mount. What do you think of that? Could you make a Beryl style mount that hangs of the rear sight leaf (rifle only) that also has an attachment for a gas block rail? This would be such that both the Beryl style rail and the gas block rail would hinge off the same point on the rear sigtht leaf. For the shotgun could you maybe make a hinge that would replace the rear sight and have the gas rail hang off that and attach to the front sight bead with the back rail being a Beryl style rail again hanging of the new hinge and attaching behind the receiver on the the stock. Just a suggestion. I look forward to your thoughts on this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Merlin 0 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Tony, any updates on a release date and prices? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rbthntr64 21 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Will be available in 2-3 weeks. Steel one piece Mil-spec 1913 rail blended into an HK rear sight base. Price will be available next week. We will also have the rail only, without the sight base, contoured to fit the AK top cover. Weld on application. Of course on most guns, you will need to weld up the back of the top cover to tighten it up a bit. No big deal though. If you can weld the thing on, you can weld up the cover to tighten it up while you're at it. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp Very nice Tony! How many frogskins is that thing going to set me back? Does it co-witness with the heigth of your HK front sight? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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