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Krinkovliu

CAR15 stock for 308: good or dumb idea?

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My new Saiga 308 should be arriving at my dealer this weekend. I currently plan to add a pistol grip plus four other USA compliance parts including a replacement buttstock. However, I am trying to decide whether to replace the Russian buttstock with a USA made conventional AK polymer stock (K-VAR) or a CAR15 "Commando" collapsing stock (I have mounted a variety of side folding stocks on my other AKs and have found all of them to be unsatisfactory compared to my AKs that were originally built as folders such as my Polish underfolder).

 

Is there any benefit in having a CAR15 stock on the 308 besides an arguably cooler look? Is the ability to adjust the pull lenth by a few inches really that great? Is the CAR stock durable?

 

Assuming I go down this pathway I have identified three different approaches to adding a CAR stock:

 

(1) Attachment sold by Tapco and others (maybe Ultimak) which apparently consists of a mount made out of delrin plastic into which one screws the buffer tube. Tapco sells the mount and stock for about $60.

 

(2) Attachment made by Ace Delta which consists of an aluminum receiver block which can be used to attach a variety of modular stocks, an adapter, and the CAR15 stock. This set-up goes for about $100.

 

(3) Attachment made by a company whose name I forgot but starts of VL.... This is a company that specializes in M16/AR15/M4 components. Their set up costs about $170.

 

Anyone have any experience with any of these products? I am gravitating towards the ACE product. I had one of their folding AK stocks and feel that it is a durable product.

 

BTW: my Saiga will be used for recreational shooting - no life or death applications.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Evidently, alot of people like the idea...

 

I think it is pretty DUMB!!!

 

Lollygagger :unsure: ( Maybe they'll put a picatinny base on the receiver cover and add a AR carry handle too! :eek: )...

 

AK stuff is for AK's. AR stuff is for AR's. Get confused and you are liable to end up in a gay marriage!

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Vltor would be first choice. Ace adaptor and stock would be a close second. Don't waste money on the Tapco. You might want to check with Ironwood Designs for some nice wood or laminate alternatives.

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Thats the trouble with those from the looks of it. The AK stock angles down from the receiver slightly and is lower on the center line, AR stocks come straight off the reciever and work because the sights are higher.

 

Having said that I have made a ACE tube type stock and it works well and looks OK, but its not a true AR crossover. I tend to think the collapsibles on the AKs just don't look right.

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Having said that I have made a ACE tube type stock and it works well and looks OK, but its not a true AR crossover. I tend to think the collapsibles on the AKs just don't look right.

 

I would be in this same school of thought... I think the tubular skeleton stocks look VERY cool on the Saiga... the collapsible ones, however... just dont "have it"....

 

but thats just me....

 

:smoke:

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I think the tubular skeleton stocks look VERY cool on the Saiga... the collapsible ones, however... just dont "have it"....

 

but thats just me....

 

:smoke:

Agreed.

 

I think the tubulars look very, very cool!

 

Lollygagger :unsure:

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Thanks for your responses so far. I certainly would like to hear other opinions.

 

I would to comment about OnePoint's observation. It is my understanding that the M16 is a managable firearm in full auto or rapid fire because the stock is in line with the barrel. Therefore, the recoil impulse goes directly back into the shoulder. In other firearms, including the AKs, the stock is lower that the barrel therefore the recoil impulse causes the barrel to rise. Consequently, it would seem that an AK would have less barrel rise with an CAR15 type stock.

 

Based on what I have read so far, I probably won't install the CAR stock on my Saiga since I won't be firing it rapidly, but it might be worth considering for my SAR-2 which I do fire rapid fire. I am having the barrel assembly replaced with a Bulgarian assembly that includes a muzzle brake which should help with the recoil.

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With the CAR stock set, which is on mine, The stock is actually not in line with the barrel. It actually sits up higher than the barrel. See:

post-6-1107475496.jpg

Edited by BlenderWizard

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I have the ACE setup with the no tang adapter. M-4 stock with a cheek piece, folding set up. I can use my iron sights, the reason is that ACE parts are somewhat adjustable up and down. I have a aimpoint scope on KVAR mount that I use as my main optic, but that can be taken off to use the irons if I need to. I built my rifle to what I wanted, what I felt worked for me....I would suggest you do the same. Military rifles are made for the masses, custom rifles are made for you. Check out the RSA adj. trigger group, and shepards crook, blackjack buffers, and ergo grips. Good stuff!

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but it might be worth considering for my SAR-2 which I do fire rapid fire. I am having the barrel assembly replaced with a Bulgarian assembly that includes a muzzle brake which should help with the recoil.

A AK-74? Recoil? Control? A brake attached?

 

Don't worry about it...trust me.

 

Lollygagger :unsure: (or, ask around)

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I really like mine, i think it looks pretty bad ass AND It's differant than all of the others. I plan to put a scope on later down the road, because it doesnt line up with the iron sights, it's to high. It does work for me when the stock is in the fully extended position or second to last position. I have a 6 position stock on mine and all of my parts are from Blackjack buffers.

 

You cant tell me this doesnt look bad ass:

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I really like mine, i think it looks pretty bad ass AND It's differant than all of the others. I plan to put a scope on later down the road, because it doesnt line up with the iron sights, it's to high. It does work for me when the stock is in the fully extended position or second to last position. I have a 6 position stock on mine and all of my parts are from Blackjack buffers.

 

You cant tell me this doesnt look bad ass:

Looks a hell of a lot like mine.

Edited by BlenderWizard

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To correct that slight upward angle of your stock add a couple shim washers under the rear tang hole.

Just did the washer thing. Added two of them. The stock has a pronaunced downward angle. I can get the sights to line up! The adapter looks almost cross threaded, but still solid. Now I need to test fire- that may take a while.

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To correct that slight upward angle of your stock add a couple shim washers under the rear tang hole.

Just did the washer thing. Added two of them. The stock has a pronaunced downward angle. I can get the sights to line up! The adapter looks almost cross threaded, but still solid. Now I need to test fire- that may take a while.

Not trying to be a shithead, but I can't see how it could not be cross threaded.

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Krinkovliu,

The M16 was never designed to be fired full auto from the shoulder. In the A1 configuration (select fire semi/auto) the muzzle will still rise on full auto. I beleive that on full auto there is something like 3 rounds actually traveling the barrel at the same time. On full auto the M16 was designed to be fired from the hip while laying on its side and sweeping left to right to take full advantage of the muzzle rise. The current version supplied to troops is the A2 version which has select fire of semi/3 round burst. This was done to help our troops control muzzle rise. There are still some A1 versions being issued but for the most part we are using A2's. I know because that is what I'm issued and my OIC is a gunners mate and has been for about 18 years. BTW I am in the Seabees attached to NMCB27.

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Well, fo whoever may be interested, my 4-position CAR stock is up for sale

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...me=STRK:MESE:IT

Man, WTF!?!?! Fucking eBay pulled my damn auction! Claimed it was part of an assault weapon!

 

Dear XXXX XXXXX,

 

We regret to inform you that your eBay auction:

 

 

7133878450 4 Position AR15 CAR Stock

 

 

 

has been ended. All fees associated with this auction have been credited to your account.

 

The item you have listed does not appear to be consistent with eBay guidelines.

 

Firearms cannot be listed on eBay's core site. Any item that is designed to propel a metal (or similar) projectile is covered by this ban, regardless of that item's present ability to fire.

 

Other firearms related items not permitted on eBay include:

 

- Air/BB/Pellet guns

- Blowguns

- Dart firing tasers

- Spearguns

- Flares, flare guns, flare gun receivers and launchers

- Kits that can be used to create a firearm

- Specs and/or blue prints for assault weapons

- Any firearm receiver including "cut" or "demilled", partials, and 80% completes

- Illegal components such as silencers, converters (to convert a firearm to have automatic capability), and short barrels

 

eBay will also no longer allow any parts or accessories for assault weapons, and any item found that is described as being for use with an assault weapon will be removed. Firearm parts and accessories that have a legitimate use for non-assault weapons may be sold provided there is no mention of an assault weapon within the listing and they are not shipping the item outside of the United States.

 

Please be aware that as of June 9th 2004 eBay requires all sellers to state what model of gun the item they are selling is related to. All listings for gun parts and accessories must also be properly categorized in the hunting categories.

 

eBay realizes that as of September 13 2004 the Federal assault weapon ban has lapsed but for the time being our policies regarding all assault weapons and accessories will remain in place. This means that these policies will be based solely on eBay policies and not Federal law.

 

For information on eBay's policies regarding firearms, please view:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/firearms.html

 

For information on infringing, prohibited or questionable items, please view:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/items-ov.html

 

For more information on why eBay has ended an auction, please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-endauction.html

 

Please view our guideline page for a better understanding of our auction policies and how they affect the way you list your items:

 

http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-list.html

 

Future auctions listed that fail to meet our listing guidelines will be ended early and repeated violations may jeopardize your account status. We value you as a member of our community and wish to continue our relationship, so we respectfully ask you to refrain from any violations of the Listing Policies or User Agreement in the future.

 

We thank you in advance for your cooperation.

 

Regards,

 

Customer Support (Trust and Safety Department)

eBay Inc

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YEAH..... they do that... I think it is VERY BAD busines practice they are getting into... ITS VERY CLOSE TO CENSORSHIP.....

 

BUT.... its their site, and they can do what they want... they make so many millions of dollars a year, what do they care if a hundred or a thousand auctions a month are cancelled because they are not "within their restrictive fascist guidelines"? They post several thousand auctions a day there, I am SURE!

 

...I posted a Microtech Nemesis...Original Brend Grind.. they pulled it, too... when I could go thru and see 100 others that werent pulled that were NEARLY IDENTICAL TO MINE....(different models of automatic microtechs, with longer than 5 cm blade lengths.)

 

pisses me off to NO END....

 

BUT... at least the people that wanted it got my email before it was pulled.. and I STILL SOLD it for $740.00 OFF EBAY!!! LOL GO F**K YOURSELF EBAY!!!

 

Well... thats enough rant.. before I get too fired up about it..

 

And I really cant bitch *TOO* much anymore... I am using that fascist site to sell stuff still and making a KILLING....

 

So....

 

:smoke:

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IndyArms is selling a high grade auto opening knife aka switchblade. Ebay's policy is allow switchblade knives so long as their blades are no longer than 2 inches or 5 centimeters per California law. The joke is that many people list switchblades that have blades that are obviously longer than 2 inches, but their descriptions say: "2 inchs / 5 cm". I was amazed to see hundreds of switchblade knives for sale on ebay. Maybe if you resubmit your write-up and use different words it might pass a second time. On the other hand, ebay might have an army of busybodies who have nothing better to do than seek out products that ebay does not allow. I have had a number of auctions removed because of their policies (e.g., no hicap mags, lookalike products of trademarked goods....).

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