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HAL-9000

Sagia 12 mags

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Hello all, newby here.

 

I went over the Saiga 12 mag post(http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=335) had to remind myself that everyone here wanted to be here and help others Sagia owners out.

Well you guys sure got at each others throats quick enough, Kinda reminds me of AW.

So, .....according to ATF law the Saiga 12 can have a 10 round mag because it only has the one item "detachable Mag". Is that correct?

Does not Sagia make a 10 round mag?

Now I currently own a Valtro pump, and it has 7 round mags, also has a pistol grip, and internal threading for chokes...........is that illegal?

Anyway the previous post, noted above, really confused me.

How about the Saiga 410, takes a mag plus has a exterior threading for chokes? Isn't that two items on the list?

I was thinking maybe one of you could clue me in to what the full meal deal was without it turning into a fist fight.

thanks for any help

HAL-9000,......your friend with a Saiga

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the shotgun laws regarding magazine capacity is a double standard. is your valtro factory 7 round? or made before 92? thats ok then. as for the .410, that is considered a rifle caliber. .410 isnt a gauge, its a caliber, so its an exception to the shotgun laws. as for true shotguns, the law states no more than 5 rounds in a magazine for new manufactured shotguns, and a shotgun with a clip is still a shotgun with a magazine. you would need a destructive device permit or be law enforcement to use the 10 round magazines, which is nearly impossible in most states to get now. these other guys with thier law books might want to sift through them some more and give you the details, but thats pretty much it. it would be nice if there were one clear set of laws in one place so that we all didnt have to bicker so much about what says what, and what makes a shotgun a destructive device or not, etc etc.

Edited by Bvamp
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the valtro could have a 50 round drum and still be legal, it is a pump gun, the evil features are for semi automatics only. the law reads : a semi auto shotgun that has a fixed mag capacity of more than five rounds or a detachable mag, the only reason we can't use 8 rounders now is that no one will sell them to us.

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the only reason we can't use 8 rounders now is that no one will sell them to us.

 

From everything I've read, the above quote is true. So why are my 8 round mags stamped "Law Enforcement Only" then?

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the only reason i can figure that all the 8 rounders are stamped law enforcement only is that so many people are confused by the wording of the law that all the importers figure they would cover their butts by not selling to mere citizens. on a side note i'm wondering if since by the letter of the law it would be legal to use the 8 rounders if we could not use the ones labeled law enforcement, the reason i wonder this is at a gun show a ways back i almost bought an 870 pump gun, it was labeled law enforcment only but when i was talking to the vendor he said anyone could buy it because it was in a civ. legal configuration, then again i know how "smart" some gun show sellers are so he may have been full of it.

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One of the 870 folding stock models does say "LAW ENFORCEMENT ONLY" on the stock (I think it is an actual Remington factory folding stock). I have seen this stock since the '70s but there has never been a law that prohibits civilians from owning pumps with folding stocks and I've always seen these stocks traded freely. The only time that could be a problem is if someone stuck it on their 1100 after the ban.

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again, if all the laws were the same state to state for the most part, and in one freakin place, there wouldnt be the double standard. if you read the law on the cap. of shotgun mags, it does leave enough room to make an 8 shot clip illegal. it IS a shotgun mag, and IS postban, and IS over 5 shots. go figure. they should cut down on the bans, and have it all nice and clear cut what is legal and whats not. i believe your valtro drum mags are considered a DD when attached to a shotgun, actually. look at the striker. thats pump action. i have a pistol permit, and i cant buy an armalite with the collapsable stock new off the shelf? if its not a longarm, it falls into the pistol category by law, yet i cant buy the new stubby armalites. same deal. its a double standard that needs to be clarified i think in the laws they have. they just scrambled for something that banned what they didnt like, and its a tad bit out of control. at least there are millions of good prebans in the country i can play with still....

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well guys luckily we only have 10 months to go till the Brady bill expires and clears up some of this ambiguity...it is legal B.S. like the wording of the Brady bill that made Bill"slick willy"Clinton , the 'Teflon god'...it leaves just enough room for the lawmakers to say "no , you dont understand..what I meant , was/what it means , is...(fill in the blank with whatever happens to be convenient for them today or let the supreme court figure it out in a legal battle where the letter of the law will fall to the supposed 'intent' of the law)...you can check out the exact wording for yourself , just pull up a copy of the Brady Bill from the internet... http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Lobby.../bradybill.html ..

unfortunately Pres. Bush has publicly stated his support of gun controll , but , popular opinion has been that he wont lift a finger to push a new 'assault weapons' bill thru to pass...here in Wisconsin we are currently considering the legal carrying of concealed weapons , gun owners are making some noise , i can only hope that what the people are lobbying for here , tips the scales in favor of a more realistic approach to regulation , at the federal level , and delays or kills an assault weapons ban that is based more on cosmetic features than capability....

maybe someone should remind somebody that its much harder to hide or conceal a hi-cap mag , and no president of the US has ever been killed or even shot at with an assault weapon (while in office of course..lol..)...criminals hide , law abiding people do not...we 'conceal'...lol...

by what i can de-cypher from the brady bill text , civilians arent even allowed to OWN a magazine that can carry in excess of 5 rd.s unless we are LEO , etc. ....and Bvamp you may be having trouble with that armalite stubby 'cause it weighs too much , the limit for pistols is 50 oz....lol...

Edited by Silverfox

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is that what it is? hell, thats stupid. so there is a middle ground as well then that is a no-mans zone. im wagering the brady bill will be quiety re-signed one morning in congress the day before it expires or something. anyone want to bet with me? :) i wonder if vegas has odds on it...

Edited by Bvamp
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..lol..man , we can only hope your wrong about that one , but it wouldnt surprise me at all either if it happened that way...keep those fingers crossed...

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I've seen quite a few 8rd S12 mags in Fla, & non of them were stamped "Law Enforcement Only". That's probably being done by EAA.

 

Wildmann, if you happen to see any more, make them an offer and buy me a few dozen. I'll sure take them and pay you back or pay for them directly! Guaranteed! And, I am here in Florida, so they can stay local.

 

Billyjobob

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i believe your valtro drum mags are considered a DD when attached to a shotgun, actually.
Where, for crying out loud, where is the law that says this? I'm waiting.

 

look at the striker. thats pump action.

 

I thought it was double action, or some sort of autorevolver, but I could be wrong.

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The SWD Street Sweeper & Penn Arms Striker 12 are mechanically & functionally identical. Both are spring driven drum feed, indexed & fired by a double action mechanism. The only pumping required is to empty the drum, one round at a time.

 

Neither is really a practical design, they're more of a throw down assault weapon.

Appearance wise, they look cool, but hopefully you wouldn't need to fire more than 12 shots in a defence situation. If you did, you should pull another weapon.

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