KrisFox 69 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I have done a lot of handloading. I have swadged a few of my own bullets. And now as I look at getting my FFL I'm also thinking of getting a license to manufacture Ammo. One of the things I want to try is using the explosive Tannerite and putting it in a bullet. (Less than 1/4oz of explosive doesn't qualify as a DD according to the ATF) Any interests, comments, suggestions. Developmental testing will be done with G2 contender for pistol/rifle bullets and a NEF single shot break for 12ga. Also involved will be a vice a lanyard and a video camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Twinsen 86 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Good luck! What makes tannerite work is how unstable it is. As long as you're a good ways away, the most you can lose is that single shot shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Good luck! What makes tannerite work is how unstable it is. As long as you're a good ways away, the most you can lose is that single shot shotgun. Unstable is a relative term. In the world of explosives Tannerite is very stable. Most pistol rounds can't set it off. The question I have is. Is the shock of being fired from a gun enough to set it off? Is the wad/cushion in a shotgun shell enough to buffer it? Is the impact down range enough to set it off? Using blast calculations the pressure from 1/4 oz of Tannerite going off in a chamber or barrel should be less than 10,000 CUP. But unlike the powder this is 10,000 additional CUP pushing the copper/led jacket out against the bore/rifling. I'm guessing probable case of failure would cause a bulge in the barrel and no damage to the rest of the firearm. I figure worst case I'll have a neat You-tube vid of "Why you shouldn't put Tannerite in a bullet." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whatmanual 44 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) You'll shoot your eye out kid... ~~~~~~~~~~ I would suggest looking at the bird bomb design and/or ask the folks that make them. They certainly would have the info. ~S Edited February 20, 2009 by whatmanual Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dirtyharriett 0 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I absolutely would not do that if I were you. I have seen too many pictures of mangled body parts from people experimenting with the binary agents. Here is a link to a guy who got his hand just absolutely shreaded... http://www.freewebs.com/grog/safety1.htm (scroll down to the bottom for pics) All I can say is if you must experiment please be careful and use a device to hold the firearm and a long string tied to the trigger while early testing is done... dirtyharriett Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 HE already said that he'd be setting it off in a vice and firing it remotely (With a Lanyard) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bcelliott 6 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Good luck--I'm interested in the results, but I'm glad I'm not the one doing the experiment. I would think that if it doesn't explode going out, you're probably going to have a difficult time getting it to explode on impact at shotgun velocities unless it's at close range and it's striking a very hard surface. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Even if your tests prove positive results my knee-jerk reaction is that there are enough variables to not ever want to hold a firearm loaded with any tannerite. All it takes is 1 explosion in someones hands to make you wish you never even tried to load it. I can't imagine the liability of actually selling that kind of round. Weigh the Risk:Reward Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Megatron 0 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 One of the things I want to try is using the explosive Tannerite and putting it in a bullet. (Less than 1/4oz of explosive doesn't qualify as a DD according to the ATF) I've thought about this as well. But the problem is the mixing of the two agents is what is considered unstable. To my understanding, it's the speed of the bullet that sets off the Tannerite, which I would think would happen inside the barrel of a 12 gauge if you had it mixed in the round. If you could keep the two agents separate until after the round has left the barrel, you might have a chance. The bottom line is that I could think of a good/safe way of testing this idea, so it wasn't worth pursuing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) After reading that story and seeing what a binary agent in a round did to that guy's hand, I would DEFINITELY NOT pursue doing that. They didn't say it was tannerite, but the description said the manufacturer advertized it as being able to "give grown men woodies". It's tannerite that uses that expression in their ads. If you're looking for an alternative, what about gunpowder with a shotgun primer on the nose? Not as powerful, but definitely safer than tannerite. Corbin Edited February 20, 2009 by Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
space_weazel 1 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 I look forward to the test, we will never know if it will work until testing is done. Please keep us posted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted February 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) After reading that story and seeing what a binary agent in a round did to that guy's hand, I would DEFINITELY NOT pursue doing that. They didn't say it was tannerite, but the description said the manufacturer advertized it as being able to "give grown men woodies". It's tannerite that uses that expression in their ads. If you're looking for an alternative, what about gunpowder with a shotgun primer on the nose? Not as powerful, but definitely safer than tannerite. Corbin You may have saved me $150 on a shotgun. What would be better. Pistol, shotgun, or pyrodex powder? Edited February 20, 2009 by KrisFox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
second shooter 22 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Hi, a while back i experimented with putting a 209 primer in the front of a lee 1oz slug, i just drilled a hole to suit the primer and gently pushed it in flush, loaded it as normal, fired it into a gravel bank and it set the primer off on impact. the idea was to get a bit more nock down power on steel plates .to be honnest i only made 5 and shit myself every time i pulled the trigger. i wouldnt try it now im a bit older and smarter. i have heard that diesel exploades on compression, perhaps a slug filled with diesel would be a safer option? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Experiment all you want, just be safe, we don't need a good member missing body parts! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oct0gen 0 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 As intrigued as I am with this topic, I choose to only experience this round through the safety of YouTube! I have shot old shotgun shells in the primer with my .22 and it just cracks the plastic case. I would imagine putting gun powder & a primer in a lead slug would just mushroom like a hollowpoint and potentially knock it back towards the shooter a few feet. Keep in mind that for powder to explode, it needs extreme compression. Black Powder would be the fastest of the powder types and would possibly leave a cool smoke signature. Once again, after seeing that dude's hand, I choose to only experience this through YouTube! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheGlobule 1 Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 (edited) Order some GA Exploder from Delta Force and see what their explosive slug recipe is. You can go from there. According to DOT regulations you may not be able to ship your explosive ammo though... Remember: primers are set off by pressure and/or temperature. Not a good idea to set a primer on a bullet... it may work on a slug but I doubt it. Also, gun powder is fast combustion while explosives are... well... explosives... Edited February 20, 2009 by The Globule Quote Link to post Share on other sites
steveb327 13 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 <<------ See picture to left for potential outcome. These would be more what you had in mind. All you have to do is join the military, travel the world, meet new people...... http://www.defensereview.com/1_31_2004/FRAG 12.pdf Mmmmmm..... H.E. 12 guage. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
52brandon 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Even if your tests prove positive results my knee-jerk reaction is that there are enough variables to not ever want to hold a firearm loaded with any tannerite. All it takes is 1 explosion in someones hands to make you wish you never even tried to load it. I can't imagine the liability of actually selling that kind of round. Weigh the Risk:Reward basically exactly what I was going to post. While it sounds great in theory, exploding shells are a very cool concept. I just dont see it being consistent enough to be comfortable with it. An awesome frangible round would be something I might pursue though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Even if your tests prove positive results my knee-jerk reaction is that there are enough variables to not ever want to hold a firearm loaded with any tannerite. All it takes is 1 explosion in someones hands to make you wish you never even tried to load it. I can't imagine the liability of actually selling that kind of round. Weigh the Risk:Reward basically exactly what I was going to post. While it sounds great in theory, exploding shells are a very cool concept. I just dont see it being consistent enough to be comfortable with it. An awesome frangible round would be something I might pursue though Copper Jacket around compressed powdered tungsten? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 I would imagine a 12ga Glaser Safety Slug would be extremely devestating. Not sure if it would over penetrate or not on a human. How about a 12ga version of a "flying ashtray" that mushrooms out into a huge chunk of lead? Maybe even a Black Talon 12ga. That would do the trick. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 I love the Black Talon! I have a carefully horded 250 of them that I use in my Glock 20 10mm! Krisfox, if all that you lose is an old single barrel shotgun it is no big deal, but what little I have learned of explosives at the schools I have attended it that they are unpredictable. I do not think that you could afford to do enough testing no matter what your combination to get a decent premium from an Insurance company to handle your liability. I could be wrong, I have a friend that is a professional commercial reloader. I will try to ask him for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) I remember seeing on 37mm.com a story of a guy who loaded a 37mm grenade round with Tannerite. It detonated upon firing. Destroyed the launcher and ripped his hand to shreds. IIRC he lost all but 2 fingers in that hand and had other injuries as well. Don't fuck with it. Even if ONE works when you do it remotely, what will happen the next time? Or the next? Tannerite is set off by shock. Edited February 21, 2009 by patriot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
okie shooter 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 (edited) If you want to mess with this thought, do some research on the explosive involved, see if its set off by the shock wave or friction, if friction you might not want to think about it(will the setback cause too much friction in the round to set it off, we press tnt at 50000lbs on presses to eliminate voids that coluld allow friction collapse to set off a round, also colapseing air can under compression in a round set off the he too, thus x rays for voids is required for many rounds too), and even shock wave, the smallest loaded round was 20mm with effect, and there was a huge steel casing to protect the explosive. I dont think a plastic shell will give you much protection and if you dont consolidate the explosive(believe that tannerite sets off with friction) you might be in a wold of hurt when you acclerate the mix, even thur a slow shotgun shell. This is IMHO, I used to work and design for work on explosives ever day, have great respect for them no matter what. Edited February 21, 2009 by okie shooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Etek 32 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 I remember seeing on 37mm.com a story of a guy who loaded a 37mm grenade round with Tannerite. It detonated upon firing. Destroyed the launcher and ripped his hand to shreds. IIRC he lost all but 2 fingers in that hand and had other injuries as well. Don't fuck with it. Even if ONE works when you do it remotely, what will happen the next time? Or the next? Tannerite is set off by shock. Incorrect. Tannerite Binary Target mixture was not used in the 37mm incident and is quite safe. A Binary Flash Powder (Sold by Skylight/Tanner) was used and indeed it resulted in damage and injury. Flash Powder is VERY DANGEROUS ! I know all the parties involved in the accident. Names on request with their PRIOR permission. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oct0gen 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 I choose to only experience this through YouTube! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j8EEc8yETM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rbosacco 0 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 absolutely a stupid idea. i would like to recommend you go ahead and send in you info to whoever accepts darwin award nominations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Just my opinion... Having not messed with the Tannerite flash powder OR the target mixture, I'm not qualified to recommend you try either in a 12ga round. Nor am I qualified to say NOT to. Having said that, if this were something I wanted to try, I would research as much as I could before doing it. Not just going by what some of us on a forum tell you, but by talking with the manufacturer, the person that got hurt and any qualified person that can give you a PROFESSIONAL opinion on it. Not the "I've been shooting guns for 40 years and I know what I'm talking about" types. Unfortunately, you'll find those at every gun show, shooting range, forum and anywhere else firearms are involved. It's your life though (and whoever else is around), so do what you feel is best. Just please take due care to be safe. As a person who almost lost my right hand in a firearms related event, I can tell you it's a life altering event. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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