alephzero 0 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Greetings all - After a friend showed me his modded saiga 12, I decided I had to have one. After lots of browsing around, I ended up purchasing one on gunbroker since my local shops were pricegouging. After reading a bit, I decided that I might be able to swing the modifications necessary to make this shotgun look and shoot even better than stock. I was WRONG. Yesterday, armed with some threads from this board and some videos of a guy doing his mod, I went to my friends house who offered to help me do the mods since he had the drill and dremil that would be necessary for the new trigger / FCG modifications. Listed below are the parts I purchased - 1 TRIGGER GUARD-SAIGA 12 TROMIX D-I-Y 1 FOREARM-SAIGA 12 ALUMINUM TRI RAIL 1 GRIP AK/SAIGA (this grip is the one thats "form fitted" to your fingers. 1 TRIGGER GROUP-<B>TROMIX SAIGA FIRE CONTROL GROUP 1 GRIP-SAIGA/AK GRIP SCREW AND BUSHING 1 TRIGGER GROUP HOLE PLUGS FOR SAIGA CONVERSIONS We got started and drilled and filed everything down, gutted the old parts and went inside to reassemble with the new parts. A) The BHO was a nightmare - we tried the dental floss trick, tape, everything - apparently I'm just inept. This took longer than I would care to admit. The safety was also a pain in the neck once everything was put back in place - did I miss something or is that supposed to be put back after all the other guts are put in like we did it? Seemed really difficult to do with the BHO in place. C) After everything was put back together, the 2 pins (rods / sleeves) that go thru the trigger group and the hammer are LOOSE. I understand they are supposed to move a little - we looked at his saiga 7.62 and they do have some play in them, but on my shotgun after the modification, dry-firing the gun makes them hop out almost a quarter inch - I shudder to think what cycling a round through the gun would do! There is no WAY I can use this gun now! For what its worth, we didnt drill these out or anything, merely used a nail punch and just tapped them through. D) The Pistol grip - I thought the ergonomic one would be the same as the 'regular' shaped grip since they are both tapco. This guy is only being held in by one screw, and it wont sit flush against the receiver. Its as if the hole in the grip for the screw is at the wrong angle or something. Again, with as much play as there is in this grip, I would think after firing a round through this gun would rip the handle clean off. Is there a better way to secure it or do I need to shell out some more cash and get the standard grip that everyone else uses? E) Trigger group hole plugs are enormous, do you guys file them down or do I need to redrill the holes in the receiver to accept them? I was thinking about going to find some screws that would fit the holes and just do that. If anyone needs any pictures of what I'm talking about, let me know. I'll be glad to upload some if it will help you see what I'm talking about. My heap of failed metal is sitting next to me, and I have a box out in the living room that has my folding stock, reticule, flashlight and a few other toys that I am about to just send back and cut my losses. This was an expensive and disappointing lesson to learn. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DANGERRUSS 0 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Did you instal either a retaining plate , e clips or a shepards crook? Did you instal either a retaining plate , e clips or a shepards crook? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alephzero 0 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Did you instal either a retaining plate , e clips or a shepards crook? Did you instal either a retaining plate , e clips or a shepards crook? no sir, not sure what any of those are (other than an e-clip, I've seen those on printers when I've worked on them in the past). Is that where I screwed up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alephzero 0 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 After looking on the website where I ordered my parts, I did see that I do, in fact, have a "shepard's crook". TRIGGER PARTS-TROMIX SHEPERDS CROOK AXIS PIN RETAINING SPRING Will I need to gut the gun to fit this in, or can I mange installation without going through all that again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrWho 10 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) you can put the Shepard crook in with out removing any thing i think it is what hold the firing pin and axis pin in... will search for picks.. 3rd one down http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=at...st&id=23741 goof video http://www.vimeo.com/2787027 http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry300905 Edited February 22, 2009 by DrWho Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Alpha Kilo 42 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 lol you didn't mess up your gun nearly as bad as you think you did! Just get those pins retained right and find out why the grip won't seat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alephzero 0 Posted February 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Thanks for the fast replies, everyone. You guys are a huge help. I managed to seat the shepard's crook, and after dry-fire, the pins are now seating fine. Today, I may run to the hardware store and see if I can't find a longer screw to put thru the back of the receiver / trigger guard into the grip, so that its held in place by two screws instead of one. Maybe it will pull the grip flush after I do that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 (edited) The Tromix D-I-Y trigger guard is designed to work with the Tapco SAW grip, and includes a bolt that works with that very grip. Using another pistol grip will require more mods to your rifle AND the Tromix D-I-Y. I would a) sell the pistol grip you have and buy a Tapco SAW grip sell the Tromix D-I-Y trigger guard ass'y before you muck it up and do an 'old-school' conversion which your pistol grip will work with. You haven't 'trashed' anything yet, you're just using incompatible parts at this time. Edited February 22, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Chillout, it will be fine. Just some small problems. For my money you will be happier with a Kreb's retaining plate then you will be the eClips. In my experience they will work their way loose. Not, that there is anything wrong with using them as a temporary solution. Nalioth is correct the old school method worked just fine, but a lot more people failed at "old school." Personally I would keep the Tromix D-I-Y trigger guard and just buy a Tapco SAW grip for the AK. They do make that grip to fit other rifles, like the FAL, so make sure you get an AK model. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zone1935 5 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 On the tromix part of the forum, someone asked the question on the saw versus others. Tony's from tromix remarked this, "It should work with just about any grip. Some may not have a cavity large enough to accept the long threaded boss, but it wouldn't take much to file it a bit shorter." I hope this helps. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
zone1935 5 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Chillout, it will be fine. Just some small problems. For my money you will be happier with a Kreb's retaining plate then you will be the eClips. In my experience they will work their way loose. Not, that there is anything wrong with using them as a temporary solution. Nalioth is correct the old school method worked just fine, but a lot more people failed at "old school." Personally I would keep the Tromix D-I-Y trigger guard and just buy a Tapco SAW grip for the AK. They do make that grip to fit other rifles, like the FAL, so make sure you get an AK model. Wouldn't the retaining plate cause him to have to go through some of the bolt hold open issues again? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Williespeed 0 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Alphazero I too used that pistol grip and I had to change the angle of the nut that goes thru the reciever. I scribed it first to get the correct angle and then removed some material with a belt sander. Replacing the grip with an AK SAW grip will be the easiest method. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 On the tromix part of the forum, someone asked the question on the saw versus others. Tony's from tromix remarked this, "It should work with just about any grip. Some may not have a cavity large enough to accept the long threaded boss, but it wouldn't take much to file it a bit shorter." I hope this helps. Grips are cheap, using the wrong part is expensive in time and money. eClips are easy, but have always failed me. YMMV, but I doubt it! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bayonet lug 1 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 I have done both DIY and "old school" conversions, both are easy but before doing any mods to your gun know WTF you are doing!!! Anyway your gun will be fine. Just get a saw grip and use your shepperds crook. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TR Young 175 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Ok, before you sell your grip and/or your DIY trigger guard, think about this... I purchased a different pistol grip than the SAW grip. Like yours, it didn't want to fit. I took a look at the pistol grip and where it mates up with the lug on the DIY trigger guard. I realized that all I needed to do was remove a bit of the material of the pistol grip and it would be fine. So, I grabbed my Dremel and put a heavy sanding bit on it and I hogged out the necessary material. I test fit it a couple times, and had to remove just a bit of material, but when I was done, the grip fit fantastic. Here you can see the type of pistol grip I used: I had loose pins, too, and all I had to do was snap on the E-clips that my FCG from Dinzag came with. (I forgot to do that initially, I'm embarrassed to admit....) Once I did, the pins were perfectly snug. Don't lose heart; all you need is just a little more time and patience. Oh, and by the way, the BHO spring is the WORST part, IMHO. I finally ended up NOT putting the trigger pin through the loop of the spring, and I have no problems at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kbailey3 0 Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 (edited) Check out these two threads on the BHO and Safety Selector if you are using the Shepard's hook (Krebs retaining plate). Modifying BHO to clear Safety Selector http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php Modifying BHO spring http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=24599 They helped me a lot while trying to assemble my first conversion. hth kbailey3 Edited February 23, 2009 by kbailey3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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