49gmc 3 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I just converted my s12 last night. I love it!!!!! the new configuration is so much better. The saiga tech trigger guard kicks ass. I've been trying to decide whether to do a folding stock or not. I'm considering designing and building a folder with a folding butt pad to clear the drum. But it would be so much easier to just make a QD stock. Obviously not as tactically sound as a folder ei you might not have it when you need it. Anyhow, after seeing it without the stock and with pistol grip and MD-20 I really want to have that option.....but I'm not sure about the law......It seems like it should be no different than an 870 w/ only the PG, is this correct? I scored a "USGI M249 SAW foregrip" on gunbroker. The quality of the grip is so much nicer than the tapco part that I bought it to match. I'm pretty happy nontheless to have a unique matching set for front and rear pistol grips. I'll try to post some pics....no promises though. Thanks to everyone on the site!!!! I learned what I needed to vastly improve my shotty!!!!! 49gmc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
why2kmax 0 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I just converted my s12 last night. I love it!!!!! the new configuration is so much better. The saiga tech trigger guard kicks ass. I've been trying to decide whether to do a folding stock or not. I'm considering designing and building a folder with a folding butt pad to clear the drum. But it would be so much easier to just make a QD stock. Obviously not as tactically sound as a folder ei you might not have it when you need it. Anyhow, after seeing it without the stock and with pistol grip and MD-20 I really want to have that option.....but I'm not sure about the law......It seems like it should be no different than an 870 w/ only the PG, is this correct? I scored a "USGI M249 SAW foregrip" on gunbroker. The quality of the grip is so much nicer than the tapco part that I bought it to match. I'm pretty happy nontheless to have a unique matching set for front and rear pistol grips. I'll try to post some pics....no promises though. Thanks to everyone on the site!!!! I learned what I needed to vastly improve my shotty!!!!! 49gmc Pics, we need pics!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) So long as it's got at least an 18" barrel and is 26" overall, it's legal. No stock required. Edited February 24, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
49gmc 3 Posted February 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Thanks....sorry if it was a silly question. I thought I knew....I guess it just surprises me that I don't see more of them set up that way around here (the board). anyhow... I'll try to get pics. thanks again 49gmc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I guess it just surprises me that I don't see more of them set up that way around here (the board). That might be because a stockless Saiga-12 is about as useful as a 3 legged racehorse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CavVet 0 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Be careful taking advice off the internet. 18 USC 921 defines a shotgun as- (5) The term "shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of an explosive to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger. As does 18 USC 5845 "Fired from the shoulder AND". Kinda hard to shoulder a pistol grip. First thing I thoguht when I read your post was a Mossberg Cruiser. I know a lot of times people compare this to that, but other factors often change definitions and the laws are massive. One is a semi, one is a pump, one is not a virgin receiver, the other is made like that. I dont know the correct answer to your question, but I know when looking at the legal definition, Im not real sure a PG only SG would meet the definition of SG. Im not sure its not. It doesnt appear to be a SBS either. I would be very careful removing the stock (other than for replacemtn or repairs, etc) and leaving it like that. While it may very well be legal, how much will it cost you to defend a NFA violations charge? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lipadj46 2 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 PGO shotguns are legal with a 18" or longer barrel. How effective they are is another story. Add a short barrel and here is my favorite "smoothbore pistol": http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 PGO shotguns are legal with a 18" or longer barrel.. . . so long as they are 26" long overall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lipadj46 2 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) yes and 26" overall not really an issue with an S12 as it has a receiver that adds over 8" to be easily legal with a PGO. Edited February 24, 2009 by lipadj46 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Folkien 0 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 PGO shotguns are legal with a 18" or longer barrel. How effective they are is another story. Add a short barrel and here is my favorite "smoothbore pistol": http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php Was looking into an AOW PG-shotgun for a while until I realized that between SOT-holder transfer fees, shipping, and the price hike most places charge, I could pick up a 500 or 870 at a gun show, buy an angle grinder, make a nice over-under style stock, and shorten the action to have a smooth handling SBS for about the same price... They're still quite nice, don't get me wrong Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I'm not sure what state you're in, but just be aware that some states have additional requirements. Here in Michigan for example, if the OAL is less than 30", you have to register it as a handgun. Stupid law, but it's still the law. It used to be that shotguns had to be no less than 28" OAL too, but I'm not sure if that's still the case or not. Again, stupid law. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lipadj46 2 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I live in NY so I don't even get to dream of SBR's or SBS's or silencers or all that fun stuff. I guess I should just be happy that "they" allow me to own my M1A and Saiga right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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