Weapon Used In Wisconsin Shooting?

[Wolverine 10,360]

Gents,

 

Anyone remember the clear facts on what weapon was reported and actually used in the Wisconsin hunting shooting?

 

Am I correct in recalling it was reported as an SKS rifle but in actuallity it was a Saiga in 7.69 caliber?

 

I looked briefly for past threads but didn't see them.

 

A little help please. Thanks.

 

Wolverine

Edited February 7, 2005 by Wolverine

[gunslinger308 0]

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...t=0entry18977

 

This is the post and I think you are right it was a Saiga in 7.62x39.

[Ross Man 0]

Yes, it was a 7.62 Saiga. However, the media reported it as being an SKS. Gunboards.com's AK forum had a lengthy thread on this. There was also a link to the actual police report with the serial #H03104079. I have a 7.62 Saiga and the serial # is only about 600 off from the one the killer used! I bought mine used and the manufacturing date was not available. However, from another 7.62 Saiga I own I estimated the killer's Saiga to be manufactured around June 2003...but I don't know how accurate my estimate is. Maybe one of you have a Saiga with a serial # close to this and you know the manufacture date?

[Wolverine 10,360]

Thanks for the help guys. You done good!!

[billofthenorth 0]

Mine is in the H021xxxxx range and was made in apr '04 FWIW

[Doerdie 0]

As Bvamp said "For Sale...as seen on TV!"

[7.62x39sniper 0]

I have been trying to follow this case. I have family up there, and I've heard from several people that the "victims" were racist. Thats not surprising, but even if they were that doesn't give anyone the right to kill them. But if you read some newspaper reports, they can be quoted as to saying there were mulitple shots fired, but it's not clear how many rifles were involved. I live in wisconsin, and infact took to the woods this season with a chinese sks with 30rd mag(no it's not illegal). By Wisconsin DNR regs you can use any rifle with a barrel length of 16" or more larger then .22 rimfire in a rifle zone. If it's legal to own, you can pretty much hunt with it. Only exception is bird hunting I think, then you can only have like 3-5 rounds in your shotgun. And it doesn't matter his ethnicity, he's an american citizen. No one has the right to condemn him before his trial is over, and all facts are brought to light. All my brothers were in the military(2 marines, 1 army and 1 went army then marines), and your pretty much taught to kill. He may be able to use that as a sorta half assed defense, but he seams more honorable then that.

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

Well if you researched it as well as you say. You know that among the six there was one rifle present in the 6 party at crime scene. Unless he shot the one armed person. then each person picked it up, and was subsequently shot...yeah right.....there goes his defense.

 

fuck him.

 

i got plenty of Hmong friends. they are pissed at what this is doing to frogtown(st.paul,mn) un-official Hmong capitol of the world. Bumper stickers out of Mankato MN saying. SAVE A DEER. SHOOT A HMONG. I thought that was a bad joke until I saw it on a car in Frogtown. Is that woman with the sticker nuts!?! I'm telling you she better not drive there again. All I know is. The deceased families, and neighbors might not have been racist before. They fucking sure are now. And so is almost everyone that comes into my parents coffeeshop.

 

Most americans never even knew what HMONG was before this.

 

great. Now they do. Next they'll be screaming. AND WE LET THESE PEOPLE COME HERE AS REFUGEES?!??!?

[Bvamp 604]

I still think vang was shot at first, and possibly there was more than the one gun. 5 hunters kicking someone off thier deer stand? give me a break there was one gun. and if there was only one? a lesson to the unwise? when confronting a tresspasser with a gun during deer season, bring YOUR OWN gun. I dont know ANYONE that would not have brought thier deer gun with them in those circumstances, and I also dont think anyone I know would be so stupid as to leave more ammo and weaponry laying there for the guy to come back and take.

 

they just shoot poachers in most other countries...

[saul 0]

The race of this shooter is a side issue. We all know the fact that he was Hmong didn't cause him to shoot these people. The reason it has come up is because his lawyers cannot dispute the fact that he pulled the trigger in all of the deaths. So they must come up with a defense that puts the best possible light on why he pulled the trigger. So you play the race card.

 

When you take the media reports and draw up the best possible order of events for the shooter what do you get? He was called a racial slur and then his victims shot at him first. He still then proceeded to kill the person with the gun and several more unarmed victims. If this is truely what happened, it is still a clearly unacceptable use of deadly force. Even painting the best possible picture for this shooter still creates a very bad view of this Hmong man. Of course now that the race issue has been raised all the Hmong in the region are painted with the same brush. Now they have to put up with idiotic bumper stickers that portray both the Hmong and the hunter in a bad light if you ask me.

[lollygagger 1]

In the original report that identified the weapon as a SKS...

 

I wondered when they said the perp REMOVED A SCOPE before firing -thiswould not be a common or easy thing to generally do wiith a SKS, asthey do not have any readily detachable scopes/mounts.

 

Now, it makes more sense. I wonder if EAA was trying to avoid legal actions agaisnt them in their decision to stop importation? Or, if it was at factor.

 

Sad.

 

Lollygagger

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I have been trying to follow this case. I have family up there, and I've heard from several people that the "victims" were racist.

 

And it doesn't matter his ethnicity, he's an american citizen. No one has the right to condemn him before his trial is over

 

but he seams more honorable then that.

I can't believe that someone who has family up there and has actually hunted there can be so naieve! These people are being called racists just because they are fed up with these foreigners who have moved in on them in droves and have no respect for U.S. citizens, the laws concerning the taking of fish and wildlife, and now the taking of human life. This land has been in their families for generations. If you are from up there you know there is a big problem with Hmongs tresspassing and poaching all forms of fish and wildlife with no regard for our laws. If you're going to move to this country for an easy way out and to escape problems in your native land then you better fucking leave all your old habits and customs at the border. If you want to be an "American" then damn it act like an American. That means learn to speak the language and obey ALL the laws and restrictions that we live by or stay away. What are you going to do if you see an armed intruder on your property? This may not be the first time they had to run that scum off. If you come onto my property armed you can be damned sure there will be multiple slurs and maybe bullets sprayed in your direction! It's my right on my land. Ever heard of a warning shot? I have personally heard a bullet wiz by once when I was unknowingly tresspassing in a local farmer's field. And I didn't try to realiate, I got the hell out of there and have not been back!

 

Yeah he's an American citizen. So he will get to hide behind the race curtain and not get punished the way he should because he isn't white. All these poor Hmongs will have to put up with more racism now. Aww too bad! If they don't like it then maybe they will move back home. Doubt it.

 

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU FIND HONORABLE ABOUT SHOOTING UNARMED MEN, WOMEN, AND TEENS ON THEIR LAND AND SOME IN THE BACK?!!

[guntech 0]

Atrocities happen in real life all the time. Look at the soldiers who were convicted of mistreatment of the Iraqi prisoners at the Abu Graib prison. The fact is this person shot a group of people to death. Yes, it seems quite possible that racial slurs were thrown in provocation and yes the group of people could have shot first, maybe just as a warning or just in anger to see a trespasser on their land, or just plain deady intent, who knows. We know the outcome of this meeting, and we can judge it, but can you be sure what was going on in the minds of the victims and the shooter at the time. Do we know these people?

Now the case is in the hands of lawyers, we still may never know what really happened. One truth, this event is not a happy one for either side.

Edited February 6, 2005 by guntech

[saul 0]

All these poor Hmongs will have to put up with more racism now. Aww too bad! If they don't like it then maybe they will move back home. Doubt it.

What you don't seem to understand, when speaking about the entire Hmong population, is they can't move back home. They fought for our CIA in Laos. Since the CIA is no longer supporting a Hmong army in Laos, for them to return to their homeland means death.

 

Their population is slow to adapt to american customs, but that is true for most populations that come to america fleeing violence instead of chasing oppurtunity. Why because they don't want to be here at first, but the other choice is death. They great thing about america is they don't have to follow anybody's customs, but their own.

 

Now they do have to follow the laws in the U.S. and that fact is true for Vang and murder and anyone else who trepasses or poaches. I believe this to be true like everyone else here. I would just council more understanding when making general statements about the whole Hmong population based on Vang's behavior.

[lithium 0]

I heard the reason EAA stoped importing is beacuse of this shooting!

Just what i heard. i live in minnesota and have also been looking into all the information pertaining to this shooting. i think the perp was shot at first.

I an a native american and i can tell you that i have been ran off other peoples property a few times(there where no signs saying it was private property!) never at gun point but its still scary not know what the other person is gonna do or is thinking. i think they rooled up on him got into an arguement and the other hunters shot at the perp and he started shooting back i don't believe that the was only 1 gun and 6 people. just what i think!

 

lithium

[BlenderWizard 12]

Edited February 6, 2005 by BlenderWizard

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

All these poor Hmongs will have to put up with more racism now. Aww too bad! If they don't like it then maybe they will move back home. Doubt it.

What you don't seem to understand, when speaking about the entire Hmong population, is they can't move back home. They fought for our CIA in Laos. Since the CIA is no longer supporting a Hmong army in Laos, for them to return to their homeland means death.

 

Their population is slow to adapt to american customs, but that is true for most populations that come to america fleeing violence instead of chasing oppurtunity. Why because they don't want to be here at first, but the other choice is death. They great thing about america is they don't have to follow anybody's customs, but their own.

 

Now they do have to follow the laws in the U.S. and that fact is true for Vang and murder and anyone else who trepasses or poaches. I believe this to be true like everyone else here. I would just council more understanding when making general statements about the whole Hmong population based on Vang's behavior.

you need to study more on LAOS WAR VETERANS. Do you know where HMONG are originally from? China. And yes they were in Vietnam. Kapuchea. Cambodia. Laos. Whatever. But they are practicaly Aboriginal/old world...Asian-Amish. They are the Jews of Southeast Asia. Run down. Cut down everywhere they have gone. The acts of less than 200 individuals as CIA/US government, anti-khmer rouge type, "veterans". Are not why they are here. They are refugees, on a economical-socio-statistical type entry. i.e. bleeding heart Americans watching another Genocide occur, and "darn it" doing something about it....uh huh. So anyone Hmong is a cousin of another who knew someone who had a llama and may have navigated someone who may or may not have been White, and maybe an American...hell CIA??? and can practically have Veteran status. A nice fucking townhome in Mt Airy Project(not like any projects i've ever seen}St Paul,MN. Free college education for entire family. And yes....the rumors are correct. A free SUV for every 4 members of family. And what obligation/s must be ful-filled to keep these items? none different than you or I. Anyway.

 

The whole Laos War Vet license plate, and idea of Status came from the first rumblings of Americans here. Had to put another positive on it. The VETERAN claim.

 

Well...we do have Iraqi's here.

Afghani's

 

and others. Are they all veterans cause they saw THE YELLOWBRICK ROAD??????

[Bvamp 604]

not to get off topic, but I know people here that have found "the hole" that you go through to get yourself a free house, a free car, and free money for a LONG time. then you have the complex up the road that has these condos in it. REALLY nice condos. guess who they give em to? welfare, former gang bangers, blah blah. only a few actually deserve the free place to live. o well. too bad im a white single male in his 30's....guess Im up shit's creek....

[lollygagger 1]

And, Bvamp...

 

sans paddles.

 

lollygagger

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

I can't resist.

 

Rules for a gun fight: (a few)

 

1) Bring a rifle

2) Bring a friend with a rifle.

 

Someone didn't follow the rules.

 

Looks like some loud mouth "white europeans" got their collective asses kicked, by a "Gook".

 

Now you know why the SF guys trained\fought with Hmongs & Mountainyards in Vietnam\Laos.

 

No I feel no pity...sorry

belch

 

 

talking shit through anonymity is weak

[Doerdie 0]

You know that among the six there was one rifle present in the 6 party at crime scene.

What they did not say was if any handguns were present. Most people I know will carry a "snake gun". That was in Florida but I am sure its the same in most states where it is legal.

Innocent until proven guilty, don't give it up so easy

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I wan't to hear Vang's side of the story. Were there more guns on the scene that magically disappeared? He sure didn't leave too many folks behind to gather them up and hide them. A real investigation would turn up evidence of shots fired at Vang. With that many people, if they were trying to shoot him, I think someone could have hit him. Either way he was trespassing on private property and comitted murder. Fry his ass!!

[TPABA 0]

I for one agree with Bvamp; although I wasn't there and couldn't say exactly what happened I still know what kind of hicks dwell in wisconsin and I'm not too surprised they fucked with the wrong guy. I knew something like this would happen sooner or later.

 

If some hick even pointed his gun at me while I was deer hunting I would say, "Watch your fucking muzzle." and if it continued after that one warning it would be open season.

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

joes. i just think talking shit about ethnicity is ghey. Oh because they are White. They must be racist. And since they called him a fucking gook. They need to be shot. Thatisn't even hardcore eye-for-an-eye ol'testament dude. Maybe this cat did something you want to subconciously do to some..."loud mouth europeans". Giving them what they deserve. uh huh

 

I was just commenting on the one-sided post of yours man. No personal offenses needed to be thrown your way. Ain't my style. cuz IGAF

 

peace to you and yours

Edited February 7, 2005 by dodgeturbointerceptor

[saul 0]

you need to study more on LAOS WAR VETERANS. Do you know where HMONG are originally from? China. And yes they were in Vietnam. Kapuchea. Cambodia. Laos. Whatever. But they are practicaly Aboriginal/old world...Asian-Amish. They are the Jews of Southeast Asia. Run down. Cut down everywhere they have gone. The acts of less than 200 individuals as CIA/US government, anti-khmer rouge type, "veterans". Are not why they are here. They are refugees, on a economical-socio-statistical type entry. i.e. bleeding heart Americans watching another Genocide occur, and "darn it" doing something about it....uh huh.

 

The whole Laos War Vet license plate, and idea of Status came from the first rumblings of Americans here. Had to put another positive on it. The VETERAN claim.

You are right I have not done an exhaustive study of Hmong history or any abuses they might have perpetrated on the immigration or welfare system.

 

My experiences come mostly from one man about my age that I worked with for a short while. He worked two jobs and told stories of his father being a "veteran". He also told me that when he left his country as a boy that his family didn't want to leave, but they were afraid of being killed.

 

My family came to this country generations ago. They were fleeing from starvation and not violence. I for one, still would like the immigration laws in this country to give preference to those leaving violence behind. I will probably always believe that, because my wife just happens to be the child of Cuban exiles.

 

Dodgeturbointerceptor, you and I can disagree about this. We can disagree about whether the Hmong really were fleeing violence when they came here. I won't call you a jarine. Nor do I enjoy seeing others do so.

 

The thing I think we all need to agree on is that Vang's actions need to be separated from what everyone thinks of the Hmong population in that region as a whole, good or bad.

Edited February 7, 2005 by saul

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

this saul dude is cool. i agree. I was just letting folks know that there are many Hmong, Laos, Vietnamese, Cambodians, who would really like truth behind why US brought them here known. They are sick at the reception they've gotten. And are looking for ways to be accepted by their "peers".

 

I'm at like ground zero here in twin cities, mn. All I hear about. I got this shit pumping out of my ears.

 

JOES....I checked my shower for cams you sick mofo. How the hell did you know I jerked to that mantra!!!!

 

I also like imagining sex as leg lifts....SIX INCHES NOW....snicker..get it? six inches...hey i'm irish...UP DOWN UP DOWN....IN OUT.IN OUT......Keeps a good time.

 

lol

 

gotta have fun.

Edited February 7, 2005 by dodgeturbointerceptor

[ozone_00 3]

I have been trying to follow this case.  I have family up there, and I've heard from several people that the "victims" were racist.

 

And it doesn't matter his ethnicity, he's an american citizen.  No one has the right to condemn him before his trial is over

 

but he seams more honorable then that.

I can't believe that someone who has family up there and has actually hunted there can be so naieve! These people are being called racists just because they are fed up with these foreigners who have moved in on them in droves and have no respect for U.S. citizens, the laws concerning the taking of fish and wildlife, and now the taking of human life. This land has been in their families for generations. If you are from up there you know there is a big problem with Hmongs tresspassing and poaching all forms of fish and wildlife with no regard for our laws. If you're going to move to this country for an easy way out and to escape problems in your native land then you better fucking leave all your old habits and customs at the border. If you want to be an "American" then damn it act like an American. That means learn to speak the language and obey ALL the laws and restrictions that we live by or stay away. What are you going to do if you see an armed intruder on your property? This may not be the first time they had to run that scum off. If you come onto my property armed you can be damned sure there will be multiple slurs and maybe bullets sprayed in your direction! It's my right on my land. Ever heard of a warning shot? I have personally heard a bullet wiz by once when I was unknowingly tresspassing in a local farmer's field. And I didn't try to realiate, I got the hell out of there and have not been back!

 

Yeah he's an American citizen. So he will get to hide behind the race curtain and not get punished the way he should because he isn't white. All these poor Hmongs will have to put up with more racism now. Aww too bad! If they don't like it then maybe they will move back home. Doubt it.

 

WHAT THE HELL DO YOU FIND HONORABLE ABOUT SHOOTING UNARMED MEN, WOMEN, AND TEENS ON THEIR LAND AND SOME IN THE BACK?!!

Ok fair enough, but don't come crying to me when you get shot by some Indians. And yes, you do have the right to shoot at someone unknowingly trespassing on your property, but in doing so, you must be willing to accept the consiquences of being an assface. There is an individual trying to start trouble with my dad, driving by his house slowly and snooping around via a county-owned piece of land in the rear of his property, and we may send a few bullets his way, but to approach an armed stranger, shout and open fire is stupid. It's called "fight or flight" people. Rights do not negate common sense or good manners.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

ozone I think you missed my point . Of course I don't just go blasting at anyone I see on my property. I have to run people off sometimes for fishing in my pond without permission and when I do I ask them nicely to leave and at my discression I may choose to inform them they can come back but only if I'm home and they ask permission first. Then I will tell them what my rules are such as catch and release and no trash. If I see them tresspass again I will give them a verbal warning. Three strikes and they're going to here gunfire! People who blatantly tresspass on others property when they have been warned to stay away have no rights as far as I'm concerned and from what I have read about this whole mess in Wis. they have a big problem with the Hmongs doing just that. I'm not a "racist" but I do have a big problem with minorities as well as anyone else who thinks they can do whatever they want because they will be protected by the court system. I am part Cherokee myself and have no problems with Amercan Indians. They have been shit on worse than anyone else in the history of this country. Those people up there were only trying to protect what was theirs and were shot down in cold blood. If it was truly self defense then he should have been the one to politely retreat.

[dodgeturbointerceptor 1]

CA isn't all that bad....cept for guns. and liberals, and gays, and oh shit....lol...j/k

 

 

I was in SoCal 10 years+.......I kind of miss it. Ocean was cool.

[7.62x39sniper 0]

Ok I have consulted a few local law enforcement sources. And my findings are that, it is illegal to fire warning shots at someone trespassing unless they have threatened to do you/friends bodily harm, it's called attempted murder or assault with a deadly weapon. Now if he had threatened them it would be lawful to fire warning shots, but not as he's walking away. My parents own about 1/2 a mile of land along a nice walleye river here in town, and we've had problems with tresspassers. And yes there are Hmong that fish on the public property about a 1/4 mile away, in the 20+ years they've owned the land never has a Hmong tresspassed. It's usually a local yokal, or someone from milwaukee who was inconsiderate. We've had lots of people ask permission and we've allowed everyone who asked to fish. And most people are respectful, but the local yokals are always told to get the fuck out, because they have no respect. I dont care that he was Hmong, I dont care that he tresspassed, the witnesses agree they fired at him while he was "retreating", what would you have done in his case? So shut the fuck up about him being Hmong and them having no respect, and picture him as white(since thats the only way you people can think of him as an equal and not just some gook). And by the way, I've been trying to get into the criminal justice, and understand quite abit about the use of deadily force. So no I am not some dumb ass runnignmy mouth.