Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

thoughts on 20 round Metal saiga .308 mags


  • Please log in to reply
231 replies to this topic

#1 csspecs

csspecs

    Top Member

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 03 March 2009 - 03:58 AM

A little background on these

About a year or so ago I thought that it would be pretty cool to have some magazines for my .308 saiga, FBMG was sold out surefire was either not out or having teething problems. So I decided to take a shot at making a couple of my own, just about totally surprised me when they worked in the first couple trys. When I posted them on here a few people commented that I should make some for sale, of course the first few I made where really really rough and not something I would ever think of selling.

Fast forward eight months or so, I get an email from a forum member asking if I ever made any for sale... Well not really, but hey I had been without work for a couple weeks and casting bullets was getting boring. So I went to work on it trying to make a clean easy to make magazine that would feed 20 rounds.

And here I am today about 20+ prototypes and a couple thousand bucks later and I have a working design that feeds 20 rounds very well.

I'm still not to the sales stage so don't jump my case about not being a business member.


Details about the magazine

Three USA made parts.
Body, Follower, floor plate.


Steel thickness
Body, follower and floor plate are 22 GA steel
Feed lips and rear locking tab are 16GA steel

Spring used is half a 30 round AK spring probably switching to G3 magazine springs once I get a couple in to test.

Inside of magazine is 2.95 Inch so it should take all normal .308 rounds and have room to spare.

The Magazine is blued using a product called OXPHO-BLUE, I am very pleased with its durability takes a lot of time with a wire wheel to take off. And my test sheets are still rust free while the plain steel is pretty rusty (heck I'm thinking of using it to refinish my S-12)


Questions

Is a last round bolt hold open something you would want? I would probably change the follower to 16GA to take the beating the bolt will likely dish out.

Do you want a peep hole for the 20th round so you can see when it's full?

Is anyone interested in ten or five round steel magazines?

Would a US made steel follower be something you would want for a replacement for the 8 round saiga mag? It could be made in either 5 or 10 round.

Would US made floor plates for saiga 8 round mags be something anyone would want?

Thanks for the help

The four shiny spots on the feed lips are spot welds that have been ground a little, flash on my crappy camera caught it funny all 30 times so until I have some sunshine for better pictures thats what you get :haha2:

Posted Image
Posted Image

http://stores.csspecs.com/
For metal Saiga-12, Saiga .308 and Vepr .308 magazines.

 

http://www.facebook.com/csspecs


#2 HarvKY

HarvKY

    Executive Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 844 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 March 2009 - 05:39 AM

Bravo

I salute your ingenuity & fortitude on this project

Cheers,
HarvKY
Parts I'm looking for:
- 5.5mm Trunnion/Hinge for Folding AK Stocks
- ACE Folding Mechanism NON pushbutton style
- RSA Trigger/FCG for 308Saiga/Vepr
- Dinzag Lower HG Retainer Bolt-on style

A Public Service Reminder:
If you know someone who has repeated emotional outbursts and displays inappropriate behavior, such as crude, nasty language typically used by children or the less educated, or who demonstrates aggressive, provocative actions toawrds others, these are often signs of a deep seated emotional disturbance or more serious mental health problem.

Please check the yellow pages for your nearest local mental health facility to get that person help as soon as these warning signs become evident.
You can find out more at: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health

#3 yellowcarbon

yellowcarbon

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 141 posts

Posted 03 March 2009 - 09:29 AM

Those are nice. If you price them close to the Surefire & FBMG, they will sell. I don't care for the last shot bolt hold open on the Surefire mags and don't think they are needed on your mag.

The 20th round peep hole is good. When loaded lots of mags from bulk ammo, it is easy to loose count. The peep hole out help with that.

I don't think a 5 or 10rd would sell as much as 20rd mags. Yes there is a market for it, but not nearly as much as for the metal 20rd mags.

Yes, followers & floor plates for the factory mag would be good. You might also look into doing a 8rd conversion kit for the AGP Saiga-12 mags. I bet those would sell as well.

Either way, great job. Mags are pretty tough to get running reliably. Make sure you test them in different guns to make sure they function.

#4 greatmoose

greatmoose

    Remembers the face of his father

  • Contributor
  • PipPip
  • 481 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deep in the Heart of Texas

Posted 03 March 2009 - 11:07 AM

Awesome work. I'd definitely forgo the BHO, it's kind of a wasted feature on the AK, since it just slams shut when you remove the mag anyway. Wish the surefires didn't have it. Price these things competetively, and you'll sell a boatload.
Dr. Calvin: "Your foot hurts?! What kind of stupid problem is that?"
Susie: "You're the doctor! You're supposed to find out what's wrong with it!"
Dr. Calvin: "It's phycosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw."

#5 oxyehho

oxyehho

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPip
  • 469 posts
  • Location:NJ

Posted 03 March 2009 - 11:22 AM

Questions

Is a last round bolt hold open something you would want? I would probably change the follower to 16GA to take the beating the bolt will likely dish out.

Do you want a peep hole for the 20th round so you can see when it's full?

Is anyone interested in ten or five round steel magazines?

Would a US made steel follower be something you would want for a replacement for the 8 round saiga mag? It could be made in either 5 or 10 round.

Would US made floor plates for saiga 8 round mags be something anyone would want?


1. BHO - please don't make it - it's useless in a mag - u have to pull it out and bolt slams forward.
2. Big YES on the peep hole
3. Big YES for the 10-rounder - I am from NJ and there are plenty of other big anti-gun states where Saiga is the ONLY AK-type weapon allowed. This will opena huge market with lots of frustrated customers like me :cryss:
4. Yes, everyone has factory 8-rounders and personally, I do not want to screw around with plastic parts to convert it to 10-rnder, so if u offer a drop in steel follower that makes into a 10-rnder - I will buy it.
5. Not sure if the mag floor plate is needed for the 8-rnder unless it's required for the 10-rnd conversion.

In conclusion - thank you for doing this. I think there is a huge demand out there for steel mags for 308. A lot of S308 owners are from SHTF community and steel is the king for them.

#6 Dancing Bear

Dancing Bear

    The Other White Meat

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,307 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:The Dregs

Posted 03 March 2009 - 11:58 AM

American ingenuity in action!

:up:
NOTICE: This post is not for use by anyone in TN. View at your own risk!

#7 JK-47

JK-47

    mmmm....Beer

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 759 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 03 March 2009 - 12:03 PM

very cool project csspecs!
Make yourself an asset, not just an ass.

#8 hogdog

hogdog

    Executive Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPip
  • 776 posts

Posted 03 March 2009 - 12:58 PM

Nice! If you can price these competitively, you will sell quite a few.
"War, in a good cause, is not the greatest evil which a nation can suffer. War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing worth a war is worse....A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. As long as justice and injustice have not terminated their ever-renewing fight for ascendancy in the affairs of mankind, human beings must be willing, when need is, to do battle for the one against the other."

John Stuart Mill, 1862

#9 GunnyR

GunnyR

    Citizen

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,271 posts

Posted 03 March 2009 - 01:37 PM

Just an FYI in NJ the mag limit is 15.

Best of luck to you in this endeavor.
GunnyR

Hey NJ, Got Defense?
NJCSD

#10 oxyehho

oxyehho

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPip
  • 469 posts
  • Location:NJ

Posted 03 March 2009 - 02:38 PM

Just an FYI in NJ the mag limit is 15.

Best of luck to you in this endeavor.

For domestic guns only though. 922r comes into play. PG conversion is illegal in NJ as well, so the whole conversion is out in this lovely state.

#11 Netpackrat

Netpackrat

    Raw Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 834 posts
  • Location:Anchorage, AK

Posted 03 March 2009 - 06:08 PM

Outstanding work!

#12 csspecs

csspecs

    Top Member

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 03 March 2009 - 06:20 PM

OK, little delay on getting the test models out

I finally found a shop that had .308 FMJ ammo to test it more with.. So after a little bit I found a couple extra small issues that will need to be addressed...

My shoulder hurts and I have a big smile on my face.

But they do work.

http://stores.csspecs.com/
For metal Saiga-12, Saiga .308 and Vepr .308 magazines.

 

http://www.facebook.com/csspecs


#13 deadeye

deadeye

    bloodshot

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,316 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Fucken find me ,oregon

Posted 03 March 2009 - 10:14 PM

i want some
"A free people ought not only be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own goverment."

George Washington

#14 731rogers1962

731rogers1962

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 11 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:West TN

Posted 04 March 2009 - 02:40 AM

Outstanding!!! Would love to buy these when you make them available. I think that if you can work out all the bugs and keep the price reasonable, you would have to hire employees and make magazines full time. I'm highly interested in buying some.
The first one to hit his target usually wins the gunfight. Second place is a body bag.

#15 SOPMOD

SOPMOD

    Ancient Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,155 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 04 March 2009 - 03:51 AM

Is that follower going to have a skirt to keep it from tilting on the finished product?

I'll buy and test drive one when you get them to a production level because I'd prefer steel to plastic anyway.

Good Luck

#16 thereisnospoon

thereisnospoon

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPip
  • 103 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 05:58 AM

I'll take 4 for testing and review, if they are the same price (or reasonably close) to the Surefire price.

Especially if you can actually put 20 rounds in it and it still function. My surefires can only be loaded to 23 rounds for relaibe function and the FBMG about 17...

I don't want or need the BHO.
The peep hole would be great-one around the 10 round mark would be nice as well if it won't degrade the integrity of the body, feed or function.
Steel followers for my other (4) mags would be great.

My only hope is that you will actually able to produce these babies and get them to the marketplace without all the grief that usually accompanies a new high demand product such as this.


I love America...

Great project.

Spoon

#17 greatmoose

greatmoose

    Remembers the face of his father

  • Contributor
  • PipPip
  • 481 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Deep in the Heart of Texas

Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:08 AM

Oh yeah, if you need testers, I'm up for it.
Dr. Calvin: "Your foot hurts?! What kind of stupid problem is that?"
Susie: "You're the doctor! You're supposed to find out what's wrong with it!"
Dr. Calvin: "It's phycosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw."

#18 GunnyR

GunnyR

    Citizen

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,271 posts

Posted 04 March 2009 - 12:16 PM

Just an FYI in NJ the mag limit is 15.

Best of luck to you in this endeavor.

For domestic guns only though. 922r comes into play. PG conversion is illegal in NJ as well, so the whole conversion is out in this lovely state.


PG conversion IS legal in NJ. There's a crapload of saiga rifle owners who've done it in NJ. If this mag makes it to market I'll be converting to give it a try. I might convert just to use the Surefire 15 rounders anyway.

Perhaps you are thinking of the Saiga shotgun, which is NOT legal for PG conversion in NJ.
GunnyR

Hey NJ, Got Defense?
NJCSD

#19 AK308_in_AK99709

AK308_in_AK99709

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 44 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Alaska

Posted 05 March 2009 - 02:26 AM

Outstanding work!! I have a shop of my own where I do custom work...if you ever make it to Alaska...you know, to return to America when we secede from the Obam-i-nation...look me up. I'll give you shop space until you get on your feet.

As far as the questions:

Is a last round bolt hold open something you would want? I would probably
change the follower to 16GA to take the beating the bolt will likely dish
out. Personally, I like the BHO...as usual I am an exception...my bolt DOES NOT slam home when the mag is released.

Do you want a peep hole for the 20th round so you can see when it's full? Yup!!!

Is anyone interested in ten or five round steel magazines? No thanks.

Would a US made steel follower be something you would want for a
replacement for the 8 round saiga mag? It could be made in either 5 or 10
round. No Opinion

Would US made floor plates for saiga 8 round mags be something anyone
would want? I think I would purchase one.

My Question: When can I order 5 of the 20 rounders?
Alaska Woodwright and Blacksmith
Chena Ridge Forge, Foundry and Woodwright Shop
Fairbanks, Alaska

Army Security Agency - If it was a Cold War why were the places I went always so damned HOT!!!

#20 Netpackrat

Netpackrat

    Raw Member

  • Member
  • PipPipPip
  • 834 posts
  • Location:Anchorage, AK

Posted 05 March 2009 - 03:00 AM

I'll take 4 for testing and review, if they are the same price (or reasonably close) to the Surefire price.


Actually, once he gets any bugs worked out of them, he should be able to charge more than the price of the plastic Surefire mags. Just sayin'.... :blush:

#21 csspecs

csspecs

    Top Member

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 05 March 2009 - 03:35 AM

I think some people will hate you for saying that :rolleyes:

I'm really planing to keep them right near the price of the surefires. I hate when people charge the max the market will support, I just want to earn enough to pay myself ok for the hassle this will become.

I won't be hurting surefires sales much if any. I know I can't do the volume they can.

I have one issue worked out, now I'm playing with the floor plate it needs something to hold it on a little better. Probably using something like an AR Magazine

Edited by csspecs, 05 March 2009 - 03:39 AM.

http://stores.csspecs.com/
For metal Saiga-12, Saiga .308 and Vepr .308 magazines.

 

http://www.facebook.com/csspecs


#22 Ruffian72

Ruffian72

    Citizen

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,597 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kansas

Posted 07 March 2009 - 03:17 AM

Glad to see project going forward. :super: Would gladly purchase to show support. Forget bolt hold open, just slows reloads. :smoke:
Why Be Prey
MAKE A STAND

JPFO
NRA
KSRA

Minute Man

VFW

#23 csspecs

csspecs

    Top Member

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 07 March 2009 - 04:27 AM

Ok update:

I have the retainer for the floor plate done.

Few other adjustments made:
Made the back half of the magazine overlap the front half more to allow for a more positive spot weld.

Started checking thickness of the steel before I bought, turns out that "22ga" from two metal yards was different stuff. One was .034 and the other was .022. I guess it may not be a big deal for others but I use the steel in strips to make the front step in the magazine so I can't have that. (that was about 20 hours and two bucket fulls of magazine bodies before it was caught)

Went to a four sided follower (three sides and top) pretty much a AK copy. Also had to add a tab to the follower to prevent the bolt from snagging it on the last round.

Made the front locking tab longer for a little extra strength

Added a lip to the front of the bottom of the mag body to support the floor plate.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

My plan so far is to send off this one, once I get my feedback from it I will then make a set of 10 and send them off for a trial run, if that goes well then to go full out with it.

I'd love to give everyone free magazines but I can't. Even the testers are not getting free magazines, just a little cheaper. :haha: So if you want to test them cool, I am doing a little pre test right now and then making a small run to be sure they work in most rifles.

I'm really planing to keep these at around 40.00 or less plus shipping. I'm still looking for springs, what I have in the test magazines is half of a AK 30 round spring, it functions fine.. Just I am going to use up all my spares really quick. I can't find cheap dented G3 magazines right now thanks to obama, so I won't be using them I guess.

The tens are going to be built as a byproduct of the 20s, every so often a spot weld gets messed up and ruins the mag body. So what I can do is cut the mag body and recover a portion of the body to make a smaller magazine. Thats the motivation behind it, just to use up the left overs.

Edited by csspecs, 07 March 2009 - 04:35 AM.

http://stores.csspecs.com/
For metal Saiga-12, Saiga .308 and Vepr .308 magazines.

 

http://www.facebook.com/csspecs


#24 GreensboroNC

GreensboroNC

    Newbie

  • Banned
  • 2 posts

Posted 07 March 2009 - 04:48 AM

Thats very well done. I hope this works out and we can all enjoy metal magazines.

#25 SOPMOD

SOPMOD

    Ancient Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,155 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 March 2009 - 09:51 AM

Ok update:

I have the retainer for the floor plate done.

Few other adjustments made:
Made the back half of the magazine overlap the front half more to allow for a more positive spot weld.

Started checking thickness of the steel before I bought, turns out that "22ga" from two metal yards was different stuff. One was .034 and the other was .022. I guess it may not be a big deal for others but I use the steel in strips to make the front step in the magazine so I can't have that. (that was about 20 hours and two bucket fulls of magazine bodies before it was caught)

Went to a four sided follower (three sides and top) pretty much a AK copy. Also had to add a tab to the follower to prevent the bolt from snagging it on the last round.

Made the front locking tab longer for a little extra strength

Added a lip to the front of the bottom of the mag body to support the floor plate.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

My plan so far is to send off this one, once I get my feedback from it I will then make a set of 10 and send them off for a trial run, if that goes well then to go full out with it.

I'd love to give everyone free magazines but I can't. Even the testers are not getting free magazines, just a little cheaper. :haha: So if you want to test them cool, I am doing a little pre test right now and then making a small run to be sure they work in most rifles.

I'm really planing to keep these at around 40.00 or less plus shipping. I'm still looking for springs, what I have in the test magazines is half of a AK 30 round spring, it functions fine.. Just I am going to use up all my spares really quick. I can't find cheap dented G3 magazines right now thanks to obama, so I won't be using them I guess.

The tens are going to be built as a byproduct of the 20s, every so often a spot weld gets messed up and ruins the mag body. So what I can do is cut the mag body and recover a portion of the body to make a smaller magazine. Thats the motivation behind it, just to use up the left overs.



I want to test them and will be happy to either pay for the privilege or trade you some stuff you might want to look at for R&D(GI M14 mag and an FBMG 20rd mag a bunch of new Wolff M14 mag springs) I would also like to talk to you about making some conversion tabs and plates for turning M14 mags into Galil 308 mags in a fairly large quantity.

PM me when you are ready

Edited by SOPMOD, 07 March 2009 - 09:53 AM.


#26 csspecs

csspecs

    Top Member

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 07 March 2009 - 04:50 PM

Ok post range update.

Barnaul Soft point had a lot of trouble feeding, my gun did not like it from the factory magazine only from my old 17s. So I can't say that I'm surprised.

147 grain FMJ ammo fed well, went through a couple mags with out a problem.

I did switch out to a full size AK magazine spring in an effort to trouble shoot the soft point ammo, I'll probably use full length springs from now on seems like they may help a little.

Checked a gun store near by and got to check the magazine in three rifles, seems that the new models have a feed ramp of sorts built in, or at least some sort of alteration in the barrel area.. I have NO idea what that will do.

Edited by csspecs, 07 March 2009 - 04:55 PM.

http://stores.csspecs.com/
For metal Saiga-12, Saiga .308 and Vepr .308 magazines.

 

http://www.facebook.com/csspecs


#27 Paladin

Paladin

    Citizen

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,347 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 07 March 2009 - 09:07 PM

Watching with great interest.... :eek:

#28 csspecs

csspecs

    Top Member

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,197 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Florida

Posted 09 March 2009 - 04:55 PM

OK I have the problems fixed with the soft point ammo.. Now it feeds fine.

I'm still looking for a good source of .308 magazine springs, or non-rusted surplus G-3 magazines for less then 3.00 each. So if you know of one that would be great.

http://stores.csspecs.com/
For metal Saiga-12, Saiga .308 and Vepr .308 magazines.

 

http://www.facebook.com/csspecs


#29 AK308_in_AK99709

AK308_in_AK99709

    Member

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 44 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Alaska

Posted 10 March 2009 - 03:30 AM

OK I have the problems fixed with the soft point ammo.. Now it feeds fine.

I'm still looking for a good source of .308 magazine springs, or non-rusted surplus G-3 magazines for less then 3.00 each. So if you know of one that would be great.


Just for the sake of R & D, how many are you looking for initially? Guess long...it is always better to have them and not need them than to NEED them and NOT HAVE them.
Alaska Woodwright and Blacksmith
Chena Ridge Forge, Foundry and Woodwright Shop
Fairbanks, Alaska

Army Security Agency - If it was a Cold War why were the places I went always so damned HOT!!!

#30 renegadebuck

renegadebuck

    Advanced Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPip
  • 274 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 10 March 2009 - 06:25 AM

Good job! Necessity is a mother! Great alternative for this nitch. Good luck!




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users