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My Gun...fell apart???


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I have a Saiga .223 with the ACE Block/pistol grip/stock set that "converts" a Saiga without any mods to the receiver. Took it to the range today and it fell off during firing! I took it home and tightened up the two internal screws, tried to simulate recoil and "test" it. No problems but who knows? ANyone had this problem? What kind of solutions are there?

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I have a Saiga .223 with the ACE Block/pistol grip/stock set that "converts" a Saiga without any mods to the receiver. Took it to the range today and it fell off during firing! I took it home and tightened up the two internal screws, tried to simulate recoil and "test" it. No problems but who knows? ANyone had this problem? What kind of solutions are there?

 

 

ive always questioned the quality of those parts... if you do the full conversion you will be very pleased..

 

also if the magnolia block is anything like my internal block you will be able to bash in doors with 0 chance of failure...

 

the full metal internal blocks are really solid..

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In my opinion, you guys who are using the "no mods" stock solutions are really just wasting your time and money.

 

The "no mods" stocks don't allow you the full effect of a conversion (major trigger improvement, better ergos, solidity).

 

 

If you can change the oil in your car, you can spend less (those "no mods" stocks are way more expensive then conversion options) and convert your own Saiga in an afternoon.

 

It is really not difficult at all.

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The half ass "conversion" is exactly that. Nalioth is 100% correct. I've found with my conversions that you lose about 4-6inchs of overall length (a good thing) and L.O.P. is shorter and for me at least the rifle pulls in very nicely. Mag changes and reloads under fire are sped up as well.(training helps 1000%) It's easier for me to keep my firing grip as I work the charging handle when everything is closer together. Go full conversion or go home!

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well considering the cost of a dremel and a cobalt bit, and the fact that you will still have them for other shit once you're done with the conversion, I'd say it's worth it!!! a REAL MAN buys tools to use them one time, and before he knows it, he has so many tools he can do anything!!!

 

lol j/k not trying to say you aren't a real man (ok it's true I'm challenging your manhood), but uh, yeah.. lol

 

buy a dremel and a bit. Every man should have a dremel.

 

here's a quick link to show you how affordable a Dremel is!!! I really mean it when I say EVERY man should own a dremel. If you don't own a Dremel, or some sort of grinding/cutting tool, it's hard to really claim to be a man (muAHahaHa)

 

http://www.tylertool.com/drem275mulro.html...urce=googlebase

Edited by Wheel
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Cobalt bit?

 

I've never purchased one.

 

I use the cheap-o Black and Decker 5 or 7 piece (depends on the area of the country) drill bit multipack from wal-mart.

 

 

IMHO, there is only two uses for the drill bit

 

1) to drill out that huge-o-rama rivet holding the scrap plate on the bottom ( drill it from the inside of the receiver, and then knock it off with a cold chisel when I have the middle drilled out of it)

 

2) drilling a hole for your bullet guide

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couple questions...

 

If I want to convert, but not put a bullet guide in and just use regular surefire mags (i live in NJ) can I do that?

 

Will the pistol grip and stock piece on my ACE thing work on a converted saiga as separate pieces?

 

Honestly, how hard is it to convert? Think of me as a butter fingered sissy-man who can't use tools at all. Am I going to ruin my gun?

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hmm... Buy the Dremel regardless. Find a friend who is less sissified than you are, and have him give you a demonstration. Maybe let HIM do the grinding/drilling. I donno. You need to unsissify. Sissification is not allowed for those who own firearms. Seriously.

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If the screws on your ACE stock just backed themselves out then get some thread-locker and that should solve the problem. While I agree with everyone else here that a full conversion is better than the no-mods conversion parts, I think a small tube of locktite will be a lot cheaper and and easier than trying to do a full conversion on your rifle without any previous skill or experience around power tools.

 

...

Honestly, how hard is it to convert? Think of me as a butter fingered sissy-man who can't use tools at all. Am I going to ruin my gun?

 

I was amazed at how easy it is to do the back-end conversion. You would have to really work at it to actually ruin your gun. You might do some cosmetic damage if you mess up, and if you really mess up then you might end up with a hole you didn't intend on having. Fortunately those kinds of things can be fixed (or at least covered up).

If you are unfamiliar with common power tools then you should probably get some assistance. I totally understand your reluctance to start cutting on your rifle. I am very comfortable around the workshop and I was initially hesitant to start chopping up my rifle too.

 

If you can't find anyone who took shop in high-school to help you then follow the directions carefully and go very slow and steady. Going slow when you are using the dremel or drill is key to preventing damage caused by slipping. The place where you are most likely to slip and do some damage is on the plate under the trigger. Fortunately you are going to toss that plate in the trash so it doesn't really matter if you mess it up. A couple quick shots of black paint will fix up any scratches you put on the trigger guard.

 

In addition to a dremel (with a grinding stone and maybe some cut-off wheels) you should get your hands on a drill and a center-punch. You don't need a cobalt drill bit, but it will make things much easier when you are dealing with the weld on the trigger guard.

 

On the topic of getting a dremel... Even if you don't do the conversion, get yourself a dremel tool. It's one of the most amazingly useful power tools you can have for doing work on small projects. Once you have it you will find reasons to use it.

Also, I think it's kind of an unofficial requirement to own a dremel if you own an AK.

Edited by dftc
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This is why we are releasing a 6 point mount of the internal block...... zero chances of the block coming out.

 

Red lock tight is your friend. Blue if you want to take it apart easier in the future. This is the link to my Ace block mods.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...mp;#entry288417

 

I am waiting to get a block from Magnolia State Armory before I order any more ACE blocks. Looks like Nathan designed a winner. :up:

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A dremel is a luxury, not a necessity, for conversions.

 

I've done 2 conversions. Both with an old corded hand drill.

 

You know how you used to go to an old persons house, and they have that 1970's "baby shit green" furniture/cabinets/carpets, etc? Yeah, that's the same color as my drill :lol: :lol: :lol: , yet it get's the job done.

 

(I'm 25, so the "going to an old persons house who has "baby shit green" stuff may not apply. I'm not sure of your age :D )

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Hey,

I wound up buying a 4" grinder, a dremel, the bits, new punches, new files and mounted a light on my work bench. All this for conversions. You know what? I always wanted this stuff anyway! I'm a converting machine :up:

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I was LMAO at Wheel and saigafun's comments about manhood and sissification and being a "butter fingered sissy-man".

 

Seriously, guys, that was a good laugh.

 

Now, I have a serious question.

 

ALthough I am moderately proficient with power tools, I have seldom used a dremel. I'm sure I can master the art. What I lack, though, is the "how-to" of conversions.

 

What parts make up a full conversions? I mean, if I said I wanted to do a full conversion, what parts would I order, from where, and how do I drill/grind/punch/cut my Saiga to make it all work. I love my rifle, and the thought of my unskilled hands performing surgery on it makes me cringe, but seeing some of the pics on this board make it seem like the risks of me scarring it for life well worth it.

 

I don't know what "full-conversion" means. I like iamrangemasters look, but I want to add a light under it. Other than that, I don't know what to get.

 

Anyone have a list?

 

Thanks!

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I don't know what "full-conversion" means. I like iamrangemasters look, but I want to add a light under it. Other than that, I don't know what to get.

This is a "full conversion". When complete, the Saiga cannot be distinguished from a factory Kalashnikov w/o close observation.

 

20nch-saiga_1207.JPG

 

This is a "basic conversion" When complete, the Saiga has it's balance and ergonomics returned to the designers wishes.

 

saiga556_1246.JPG

 

 

 

Both conversions should utilize the correct amount of US parts to satisfy 922r.

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I don't know what "full-conversion" means. I like iamrangemasters look, but I want to add a light under it. Other than that, I don't know what to get.

This is a "full conversion". When complete, the Saiga cannot be distinguished from a factory Kalashnikov w/o close observation.

 

20nch-saiga_1207.JPG

 

This is a "basic conversion" When complete, the Saiga has it's balance and ergonomics returned to the designers wishes.

 

saiga556_1246.JPG

 

 

 

Both conversions should utilize the correct amount of US parts to satisfy 922r.

Okay, that decides it for me- I want to do a full conversion. What parts are required? Is there a list somewhere? I'm aware of the 922 rules, and I assume a full conversion will fulfill the requirements, correct?

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Okay, that decides it for me- I want to do a full conversion. What parts are required? Is there a list somewhere? I'm aware of the 922 rules, and I assume a full conversion will fulfill the requirements, correct?

Dinzag has all the parts you need.

 

To use standard AK gas tube cover and lower handguard, you'll need to

 

a) have your front sight block and gas block removed and your barrel notched and a military lower handguard retainer installed

 

or

 

B) get a no-mods lower handguard retainer from Dinzag

 

 

 

You'll also need a military 24 threaded front sight block to replaced your neutred FSB.

Edited by nalioth
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One question: Other that just looks, is there any advantage to the military handguard vs. the ugly Saiga one? It looks to me that the Saiga HG would be more functional with more options when it comes to positioning your support hand.

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One question: Other that just looks, is there any advantage to the military handguard vs. the ugly Saiga one? It looks to me that the Saiga HG would be more functional with more options when it comes to positioning your support hand.

Most folks who own Saigas prefer the factory handguard.

 

As you noticed, there's a lot more of it there for your use.

 

 

It's the hardcore "must have Russian AK" guys that just "have to have" the full conversion.

 

 

I like my basic conversions. They work just fine.

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One question: Other that just looks, is there any advantage to the military handguard vs. the ugly Saiga one? It looks to me that the Saiga HG would be more functional with more options when it comes to positioning your support hand.

Most folks who own Saigas prefer the factory handguard.

 

As you noticed, there's a lot more of it there for your use.

 

 

It's the hardcore "must have Russian AK" guys that just "have to have" the full conversion.

 

 

I like my basic conversions. They work just fine.

 

 

the only other + is +1 towards compliance..

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One question: Other that just looks, is there any advantage to the military handguard vs. the ugly Saiga one? It looks to me that the Saiga HG would be more functional with more options when it comes to positioning your support hand.

Most folks who own Saigas prefer the factory handguard.

 

As you noticed, there's a lot more of it there for your use.

 

 

It's the hardcore "must have Russian AK" guys that just "have to have" the full conversion.

 

 

I like my basic conversions. They work just fine.

 

 

the only other + is +1 towards compliance..

Not sure what you mean here.

 

Using a US made butt stock, pistol grip and fire control group on your basic conversion will have you fully compliant, and the nice thing is, those parts are required for a conversion, anyway.

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Not sure what you mean here.

 

Using a US made butt stock, pistol grip and fire control group on your basic conversion will have you fully compliant, and the nice thing is, those parts are required for a conversion, anyway.

 

 

im just saying if you do so choose to its one more towards parts count... and then if you DO find something not US that you like you have the option... i mean YES i see your point.. you HAVE to add PG and stock so why not use US ones to get the count... im just saying you DO have other options.. like there are some people i have seen that use non-US made folding stocks... the +1 for the handgaurd allows this..

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Not sure what you mean here.

 

Using a US made butt stock, pistol grip and fire control group on your basic conversion will have you fully compliant, and the nice thing is, those parts are required for a conversion, anyway.

 

 

im just saying if you do so choose to its one more towards parts count... and then if you DO find something not US that you like you have the option... i mean YES i see your point.. you HAVE to add PG and stock so why not use US ones to get the count... im just saying you DO have other options.. like there are some people i have seen that use non-US made folding stocks... the +1 for the handgaurd allows this..

. . but you don't have to spend $200 for the military lower handguard mods to be able to use a US made handguard.

 

You are also forgetting the very easy gas piston exchange (for a US part).

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