shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Howdy all.. new to the board and it seems a pretty damn good source of info. I just bought an Arsenal SGL20, (plum furniture, NATO stock), and was wondering what this board's members' experiences with em were. My first semi-auto AK was a GP WASR 10/63 that I bought in January pretty much in a panic when I realized what King Barry must be fixin' to do, (yeah I was a little slow on that one), and I got a roughly-finished rifle made from mil-spec parts, matching set made in 1964. Anyway, not satisfied with the finish of the WASR, (though it's dead-on at 100yds out of the box so I'm keeping it), I bought a Lancaster model 3060, and maybe I'm just the unluckiest bastard around, but the rifle I received was built worse than my GP WASR 10/63.. and it came with lower-quality furniture as the WASR has solid hardwood forward handguards as opposed to the Lancaster's laminated plywood sandwiches, (and without the palm swell on the lower handguard as the WASR's hardwood lower handguard has). On the Lancaster 3060, the rear sight block was mounted so far forward of the front trunnion that the receiver cover was in danger of flying off, (after you used two hands to install it), and the selector lever would ride up onto the bolt carrier when in the "safe" position, the famous furniture finish was uneven and seriously flawed on the upper handguard... etc. I'll attach a couple pics I took of the major flaws. I was really disappointed in it, after all I'd read of Lancaster's "legendary" reputation. I returned it without firing it, (I'd have had to clean a bunch of mystery metallic dust out of the barrel and gas tube to even fire it). I literally just bought a gunbroker auction of an Arsenal SGL20. They seem as though they should be one of the highest quality semi-auto AKM's available anywhere. So... are these as damn good as they look? Edited March 14, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Looks like more of the Arsenal marketing department at work to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) Really? So you don't think they're at least as high quality as a straight-up Saiga sporter that has been well converted over here by anyone else? These have everything but the pistol grip done by the Legion custom rifle shop at Izhmash from everything I've read. Why wouldn't they be as high quality as any full/partial conversion done by a private/commercial gunsmith over here? Also, what do you think of that Lancaster build? Pretty sloppy, no? Edited March 15, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Really? So you don't think they're at least as high quality as a straight-up Saiga sporter that has been well converted over here by anyone else? These have everything but the pistol grip done by the Legion custom rifle shop at Ivhmash from everything I've read. Why wouldn't they be as high quality as any conversion done by a private gunsmith over here? I'm confused. Who posted those pictures? I have yet to see a professionaly converted Saiga here in the USA that you could see through. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I posted those pics. They are of a Lancaster model 3060 "Russian Red" rifle I recently bought, found to be unacceptably flawed, and returned for a refund. They're not of a Saiga. I don't have pics of the Arsenal SGL20 I bought just yet... as I just bought it online. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I posted those pics. They are of a Lancaster model 3060 "Russian Red" rifle I recently bought, found to be unacceptably flawed, and returned for a refund. They're not of a Saiga. I don't have pics of the Arsenal SGL20 I bought just yet... as I just bought it online. I had a 3060M (milled) on order for 6 months. Finally I gave up on Lancaster and got my money back. They have some real issues over there. There is a guy over on the akfiles.com who can tell you all kinds of stories about their owner and his allegedly shady business practices. Post pics of the SGL20 when it arrives, Id love to see how it compares to the POS lancaster. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) I posted those pics. They are of a Lancaster model 3060 "Russian Red" rifle I recently bought, found to be unacceptably flawed, and returned for a refund. They're not of a Saiga. I don't have pics of the Arsenal SGL20 I bought just yet... as I just bought it online. I had a 3060M (milled) on order for 6 months. Finally I gave up on Lancaster and got my money back. They have some real issues over there. There is a guy over on the akfiles.com who can tell you all kinds of stories about their owner and his allegedly shady business practices. Post pics of the SGL20 when it arrives, Id love to see how it compares to the POS lancaster. The really facked up part is, when I called Lancaster to verify that it was one of their rifles, (because it was not built nearly as well as I'd heard), after it was confirmed to be one of theirs, I talked to a guy there who basically called me a liar before I'd even finished telling him what was wrong with it. He just seemed incapable of believing that any Lancaster rifle can have any flaw whatsoever. The flaws are obvious from the pics attached to my first post, no? As soon as the SGL20 arrives, I will definitely post pics; probably after I install the new collapsible stock, pistol grip, and muzzle brake I have waitin for her. Edited March 12, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrance@iacwds.com 716 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 You should be well satisfied with your new SGL-20. I have a number of the SGL-10 and they are a superior build IMO. 1911 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
duece212 0 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Owned a sgl10 previously and it was nice. I have a sgl20 sitting at my local ffl waiting to get checked in so I can go pick it up Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mstranglr 9 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I saw those pics and thought "this guy must be confused, thats not a Saiga SGL". But your Lancaster explanation clarified it all. I got to handle 2 lancaster rifles at my local gun store that were "Tapco posterchilds" and did not look good. Nalioth, the SGLs are not made by Arsenal - only imported by them. I think they are the finest new stamped reciever AKs you can get. I really hope that RAA starts importing a Legion rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 (edited) "I think they are the finest new stamped reciever AKs you can get." SGL-10...................and then Tony Rumore of TROMIX puts his hands on it, and turns it into a TROMIX 10th Anniversary Limited Edition gun !!! SRT trigger, and this outstanding paint.....!! Legion/Arsenal/Tromix = unbelievable rifle !! Edited March 12, 2009 by Jeaux E Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bean.223 365 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 "I think they are the finest new stamped reciever AKs you can get." SGL-10...................and then Tony Rumore of TROMIX puts his hands on it, and turns it into a TROMIX 10th Anniversary Limited Edition gun !!! SRT trigger, and this outstanding paint.....!! Legion/Arsenal/Tromix = unbelievable rifle !! OH JEEZ THERE HE GOES AGAIN!!! Any reason to rub our noses in it!!!!!!!!! :haha: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 I saw those pics and thought "this guy must be confused, thats not a Saiga SGL". But your Lancaster explanation clarified it all. I got to handle 2 lancaster rifles at my local gun store that were "Tapco posterchilds" and did not look good. Nalioth, the SGLs are not made by Arsenal - only imported by them. I think they are the finest new stamped reciever AKs you can get. I really hope that RAA starts importing a Legion rifle. Yes, I'm familiar with what they are and where they come from. I'm also familiar with Arsenal's marketing department and how they do things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
t90 0 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 From what I have seen Arsenal along with Izhevsk makes the finest AK in the world. Arsenals and Izhevsk quality are top notch and I havent seen better quality anywhere in AK, that Norinco polytech legend are worse quality and are way overhyped! I saw those pics and thought "this guy must be confused, thats not a Saiga SGL". But your Lancaster explanation clarified it all. I got to handle 2 lancaster rifles at my local gun store that were "Tapco posterchilds" and did not look good. Nalioth, the SGLs are not made by Arsenal - only imported by them. I think they are the finest new stamped reciever AKs you can get. I really hope that RAA starts importing a Legion rifle. Yes, I'm familiar with what they are and where they come from. I'm also familiar with Arsenal's marketing department and how they do things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
duece212 0 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) Picked my sgl20 up tonight, good lookin rifle, unfortunately I'm glued to a pager and can't head outta town to test it out until the end of the month Edited March 13, 2009 by duece212 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TMhonfire 0 Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 (edited) I love My AK-47 sgl20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=segzHwKf7L4...re=channel_page Edited March 13, 2009 by TMhonfire Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I saw those pics and thought "this guy must be confused, thats not a Saiga SGL". But your Lancaster explanation clarified it all. I got to handle 2 lancaster rifles at my local gun store that were "Tapco posterchilds" and did not look good. Nalioth, the SGLs are not made by Arsenal - only imported by them. I think they are the finest new stamped reciever AKs you can get. I really hope that RAA starts importing a Legion rifle. Yes, I'm familiar with what they are and where they come from. I'm also familiar with Arsenal's marketing department and how they do things. So, please forgive my admitted ignorance, but please expound on how Arsenal's marketing department "does things". Are they truly dishonest? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted March 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 (edited) I love My AK-47 sgl20... Very nice pics... I'm surprised you haven't replaced the pistol grip at the least.. if not also the stock, sights, etc. I've got a AK74 24mm muzzle brake on the way for mine, (since the auction I won only came with the "thread protector"), and I already have a replacement pistol grip, (CAA UPG47), and collapsible stock waitin for her. I plan to also put a LaRue AK Irondot on her and I figure she'll be just about perfect at that point, (vertical forward grips, rail-mounted flashlights, laser sights etc are unnecessary on a AKM imo). Edited March 14, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mstranglr 9 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 I love My AK-47 sgl20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=segzHwKf7L4...re=channel_page I love the Plum furniture. Nice rifle! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whatmanual 44 Posted March 14, 2009 Report Share Posted March 14, 2009 The SGL10 and SGL20 are both "legions" made in Russia. SGL10 is imported in the unconverted configuration. You could convert just like the regular way we do and have the holes (or have Tromix or Redjacket etc do them and weld over them). All the important stuff (receiver, gas blocks, front sight block etc) are all factory. SGL20 is the same darn thing but already converted from the factory (or so I've read). Just doesnt have the brake up front). Its less expensive to get this one than it would be to have your SGL10 bought and professionally converted. Essentially, they are both the same darn rifle as far as functional quality goes. I think the SGL10 has the BHO though...not sure. The SGL10 has a higher collector value though since only a limited number of those made it over (or so I've read). ~S Quote Link to post Share on other sites
duece212 0 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 Took my new sgl20 out for its first rounds last weekend. Got about 40 clean rounds through it then it started having problems with the trigger not resetting. Checked the legs of the main spring and they are still hooked fine. It does reset the trigger fine test dry firing. Will have to give it a clean and relube to see what gives next time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted March 17, 2009 Report Share Posted March 17, 2009 I have the arsenal slr95 milled recever and saiga 308 both are good. aresenal is a little better on the fit and finish but both work flawlessly. I like the milled recever better Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hangemhigh2000 0 Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 "I think they are the finest new stamped reciever AKs you can get." SGL-10...................and then Tony Rumore of TROMIX puts his hands on it, and turns it into a TROMIX 10th Anniversary Limited Edition gun !!! SRT trigger, and this outstanding paint.....!! Legion/Arsenal/Tromix = unbelievable rifle !! That's a good job Tony. I got me wanting one, dealer sounds like a hard sell. But I guess he's right, it's the last green SGL20. Better buy it tomorrow after your reply. I'm serious to, I'm getting it tomorrow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tang22 0 Posted May 14, 2009 Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Howdy all.. new to the board and it seems a pretty damn good source of info. I just bought an Arsenal SGL20, (plum furniture, NATO stock), and was wondering what this board's members' experiences with em were. My first semi-auto AK was a GP WASR 10/63 that I bought in January pretty much in a panic when I realized what King Barry must be fixin' to do, (yeah I was a little slow on that one), and I got a roughly-finished rifle made from mil-spec parts, matching set made in 1964. Anyway, not satisfied with the finish of the WASR, (though it's dead-on at 100yds out of the box so I'm keeping it), I bought a Lancaster model 3060, and maybe I'm just the unluckiest bastard around, but the rifle I received was built worse than my GP WASR 10/63.. and it came with lower-quality furniture as the WASR has solid hardwood forward handguards as opposed to the Lancaster's laminated plywood sandwiches, (and without the palm swell on the lower handguard as the WASR's hardwood lower handguard has). On the Lancaster 3060, the rear sight block was mounted so far forward of the front trunnion that the receiver cover was in danger of flying off, (after you used two hands to install it), and the selector lever would ride up onto the bolt carrier when in the "safe" position, the famous furniture finish was uneven and seriously flawed on the upper handguard... etc. I'll attach a couple pics I took of the major flaws. I was really disappointed in it, after all I'd read of Lancaster's "legendary" reputation. I returned it without firing it, (I'd have had to clean a bunch of mystery metallic dust out of the barrel and gas tube to even fire it). I literally just bought a gunbroker auction of an Arsenal SGL20. They seem as though they should be one of the highest quality semi-auto AKM's available anywhere. So... are these as damn good as they look? I saw this post and it hit home with me. I too recently purchased a Lancaster 3060 for the same reason as you did. I checked mine and luckily I did not experience the problems you had with yours...except i am disappointed in the furniture. Sorry, yours did not work out. I likewise am interested in the Arsenal SGL20 and am seriously thinking of purchasing one on gunbroker. Did yours come to you as you expected. They look solid and everything I read about them is positive, but I also read the same as you about the Lancaster.................. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 Howdy all.. new to the board and it seems a pretty damn good source of info. I just bought an Arsenal SGL20, (plum furniture, NATO stock), and was wondering what this board's members' experiences with em were. My first semi-auto AK was a GP WASR 10/63 that I bought in January pretty much in a panic when I realized what King Barry must be fixin' to do, (yeah I was a little slow on that one), and I got a roughly-finished rifle made from mil-spec parts, matching set made in 1964. Anyway, not satisfied with the finish of the WASR, (though it's dead-on at 100yds out of the box so I'm keeping it), I bought a Lancaster model 3060, and maybe I'm just the unluckiest bastard around, but the rifle I received was built worse than my GP WASR 10/63.. and it came with lower-quality furniture as the WASR has solid hardwood forward handguards as opposed to the Lancaster's laminated plywood sandwiches, (and without the palm swell on the lower handguard as the WASR's hardwood lower handguard has). On the Lancaster 3060, the rear sight block was mounted so far forward of the front trunnion that the receiver cover was in danger of flying off, (after you used two hands to install it), and the selector lever would ride up onto the bolt carrier when in the "safe" position, the famous furniture finish was uneven and seriously flawed on the upper handguard... etc. I'll attach a couple pics I took of the major flaws. I was really disappointed in it, after all I'd read of Lancaster's "legendary" reputation. I returned it without firing it, (I'd have had to clean a bunch of mystery metallic dust out of the barrel and gas tube to even fire it). I literally just bought a gunbroker auction of an Arsenal SGL20. They seem as though they should be one of the highest quality semi-auto AKM's available anywhere. So... are these as damn good as they look? I saw this post and it hit home with me. I too recently purchased a Lancaster 3060 for the same reason as you did. I checked mine and luckily I did not experience the problems you had with yours...except i am disappointed in the furniture. Sorry, yours did not work out. I likewise am interested in the Arsenal SGL20 and am seriously thinking of purchasing one on gunbroker. Did yours come to you as you expected. They look solid and everything I read about them is positive, but I also read the same as you about the Lancaster.................. If you can find a SGL20 for $1k or less "buy now" on gunbroker, (or a similar site), buy it now, more especially if it comes with the AK74 type muzzle brake. They are fantastic rifles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cold dead hands 0 Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I just picked up an SGL20. I have owned many AK's and this one is by far the nicest. The only gripes I have are that the AK74 front sight block is 24mm right handed threads so you have to buy arsenals for $100 when the left hand threaded ones are $15. Lastly, the 2 stage trigger on mine was horrid. I polished the lip of and it was better but I still threw a Tapco trigger in it. Now it is nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I'm not sure what left handed brake you're talking about.. but afaik the only AK74 type brake that sells for $15 is the Tapco.. which is merely ornamental, it doesn't function as a 74 type brake is supposed to. Krebs sells a nice 74 brake that's correctly threaded 24x1.5mm RH for ~$65. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wlnt 2 Posted May 21, 2009 Report Share Posted May 21, 2009 I'm not sure what left handed brake you're talking about.. but afaik the only AK74 type brake that sells for $15 is the Tapco.. which is merely ornamental, it doesn't function as a 74 type brake is supposed to. Krebs sells a nice 74 brake that's correctly threaded 24x1.5mm RH for ~$65. I just got out today and tried out my Kreb's muzzle brake. Kreb's is the best. I have tried less expensive models but I value my life too much to use them. Unless you enjoy surprises buy the Kreb's and make sure you mark whether you need the 7.62 or 5.45 mm. http://www.krebscustom.com/PartsPages/KalashnikovParts.shtml louielouie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) I'm not sure what left handed brake you're talking about.. but afaik the only AK74 type brake that sells for $15 is the Tapco.. which is merely ornamental, it doesn't function as a 74 type brake is supposed to. Krebs sells a nice 74 brake that's correctly threaded 24x1.5mm RH for ~$65. I just got out today and tried out my Kreb's muzzle brake. Kreb's is the best. I have tried less expensive models but I value my life too much to use them. Unless you enjoy surprises buy the Kreb's and make sure you mark whether you need the 7.62 or 5.45 mm. http://www.krebscustom.com/PartsPages/KalashnikovParts.shtml louielouie Krebs are nice, but imo AK-USA, (ak-103.com), 74 brakes are the very best. Unlike Krebs brakes, AK-USA brakes are chrome-lined. They are a bit more expensive though, (~$95). Edited May 22, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
supersp0rt 6 Posted May 24, 2009 Report Share Posted May 24, 2009 I just snatched one of these for $840! Could not believe it when I saw it...comes with the OD furniture. Going to sign the papers tomorrow and then have to wait this states (MD) communist 7-day waiting period for the fun to begin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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