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IZHMASH 8 round mags


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Please excuse the stupid question, as I'm sure this has been asked before, but why isn't the IZHMASH factory 8 round mag

available in the USA?

I see them listed from time to time at $100 plus, so I know they can be had by ordering from overseas. I was just wondering why they are not as available as factory 5 round mags?

Is this a compliance issue? If so, wouldn't a conversion with US made parts allow one to use factory 8 round mags?

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Please excuse the stupid question, as I'm sure this has been asked before, but why isn't the IZHMASH factory 8 round mag

available in the USA?

I see them listed from time to time at $100 plus, so I know they can be had by ordering from overseas. I was just wondering why they are not as available as factory 5 round mags?

 

You can do a forum search to find the numerous threads that have discussed this before, but the short of it is that while it would be perfectly legal for Russian factory 8 round magazine to be imported, the ATF (in their infinite wisdom) has stated that if a foreign made magazine with a capacity of over 5 rounds was imported for the Saiga 12, then the ATF would declare that the Saiga 12 is no longer a sporting firearm, which would of course effectively end importation of the Saiga 12. Now of course Russian American Armory Corp. (the exclusive importer of the Saiga series of firearms) and the numerous dealers, distributors, and resellers of the Saiga 12 don't want that to happen, so the only Saiga 12 magazine any of them will import from Russia are the Izhmash factory 5 round magazines.

 

Of course there was a time years ago when Saiga 12s first started being imported into the U.S. that Izhmash 8 round magazines were being imported as well, and at that time the ATF had decided that using an 8 round magazine didn't change the sporting status of the Saiga 12. But a few years later, and without any reason or any new federal firearms laws being created, the ATF just changed their mind and decided that using the russian made 8 round magazines would make the Saiga 12 unsporting (its part of the same BS reasoning behind the whole 922r compliance issue), and so importation of Russian 8 round magazines stopped.

 

Is this a compliance issue? If so, wouldn't a conversion with US made parts allow one to use factory 8 round mags?

 

It isn't really a compliance issue per se. As with any U.S. made Saiga 12 magazine with a capacity of over 5 rounds, it is perfectly legal to use a Russian made 8 round magazine in a Saiga 12 as long as the Saiga 12 is 922R compliant (i.e. no more than 10 of its countable parts are foreign made). Again, the reason importers aren't bringing in the Russian 8 round magazines is that doing so would effectively end importation of the Saiga 12. In case you were wondering how the ATF is able to reason that the Saiga 12 would no longer be 'sporting' if Russian 8 round magazines were imported again, while the existence of U.S. made 10 & 12 round magazines and 20 round drums don't change the Saiga 12's 'sporting' status, all I can say is if you are looking for logic and reason from the ATF, you won't find it.

Edited by Frogfoot
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This post got me to thinking.

Evidently there are Russian 8 round mags being imported. If these mags, at $100 each, seem like a great deal; could further competition ( ie: individuals who understand the system for importing such items and have the cash to purchase in quantities large enough to get the lowest possible price) cause the price for such mags fall and stabilize at a rate say $50-$70 each?

I would love to be able to get involved in such a venture, but I couldn't come close to having the capital to make such a investment. It would seem that a person with the right connections and capital on hand could make a good profit on these mags at the price they are selling for now.

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This post got me to thinking.

Evidently there are Russian 8 round mags being imported.

Small quantities being brought in doesn't really consitute being imported IMO. I think there were 50 mags in that shipment and it may well have been a one time deal. They are going to "try" and get some more but that is far from guaranteed. If you want one and have the opportunity, you had best jump on it. JMO & YMMN

 

1911

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This post got me to thinking.

Evidently there are Russian 8 round mags being imported. If these mags, at $100 each, seem like a great deal; could further competition ( ie: individuals who understand the system for importing such items and have the cash to purchase in quantities large enough to get the lowest possible price) cause the price for such mags fall and stabilize at a rate say $50-$70 each?

I would love to be able to get involved in such a venture, but I couldn't come close to having the capital to make such a investment. It would seem that a person with the right connections and capital on hand could make a good profit on these mags at the price they are selling for now.

 

I doubt any dealer who was able to get a hold of some Russian 8 rounders would ever sell them for anything much less than $100 a piece. Like any other business a firearms accessory dealer is in business to make money, and $100-$150 per mag is what the market will give right now, so there is just no motivation for a dealer to sell at a lower price. And even if Russian 8 rounders ever started showing up in large enough quantities to drive the pricing down on the U.S. market, then shortly afterwards most dealers would probably just stop selling them because of the reduced profit margin. Afterall, why would a dealer go to the trouble of bringing in Russian 8 round magazines if the amount of money they would make per mag isn't any higher than what they could make selling U.S. made magazines (which are much less of a hassle to get a hold of). It is of course different with the Russian 5 round mags, since any U.S. dealer can easily get these through R.A.A.C. in the U.S., instead of having to go to the trouble of bringing them in from Russia themselves.

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I just wish the wife would have let me buy more from Gabe.....

She don't understand that it's as good as money in the bank....

we'll actually it's better.... mags will still have value next year.....

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I just wish the wife would have let me buy more from Gabe.....

She don't understand that it's as good as money in the bank....

we'll actually it's better.... mags will still have value next year.....

So you're one of the lucky ones that got in within twenty six minutes of it being e-mailed/posted, huh? Good move Juggs, they went just that fast!

 

1911

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  • 9 months later...

If you buy a Russian 8 round from overseas such as Great Britain, can it legally be shipped to the U.S.?

Would it be legal to enter by mail? Or would it be seized as an illegal import?

. . as has been answered in the preceding threads . .

 

With overseas business transactions, you roll the dice, and get what you get.

 

Most shipments arrive fine.

 

If the customs officer slept on the couch the night before, you may not receive your new toy (this happens with cigars and other things, too - it's not specifically magazine related).

 

It is NOT an illegal import.

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Thanks for the reply Nalioth.

 

This is the closest thread I got with my search, & that was through googleing it.

 

I'm not sure I want to roll the dice for the price... dice.gif

 

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if they would alert you, or if you would be stuck thinking you got ripped off?

Edited by Paulyski
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The last carton(s) of Russian mags that Gabe purchased and offered for sale were uh, interdicted? somewhere through US Customs and never recieved - according to multiple postings by the purchaser :ph34r:

 

FWIW: the packages I've recieved from Rusmil are usually marked as "airsoft"

 

HarvKY

Edited by HarvKY
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Ok this has been bothering me, why are these Russian mags so sought after??? I mean they are plastic, they count against you for 922r and they are not sporting, they are expensive and surefire makes an 8 round mag. So why the demand?? Ok truth be told I have not shot my factory 5 round mag yet either.

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Thanks for the reply Nalioth.

 

This is the closest thread I got with my search, & that was through googleing it.

 

I'm not sure I want to roll the dice for the price... dice.gif

 

EDIT: Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if they would alert you, or if you would be stuck thinking you got ripped off?

 

I have bought various items (including Izhmash 8 rounders) from Oleg over the years and never had any problems with customs seizing or sending back any of the orders once Oleg had shipped them to me, though the last time I purchased from Oleg he contacted me a few days after he had shipped my order saying U.S. customs had set aside my shipment (and some other shipments he had sent to other U.S. customers) for a customs inspection, but that this was not uncommon and that U.S. customs should release the shipment for delivery to me after about a week or so, which is exactly what happened. Of course this is just my own experience and YMMV, but I've never heard of anyone else who has purchased from Oleg ever say any of their orders didn't make it through customs either.

 

The import block and turn around by U.S. Customs of the Russian 8 rounders that Gabe Suarez had tried to bring in earlier this year did happen, but keep in mind that situation was a fair bit different. Gabe was bringing them in for resale not as an end-user, and Gabe's shipment was of a much larger quantity (about 100 mags if I remember right) than what the typical person would order from Oleg. Finally, don't forget that what Gabe was doing was perfectly legal, and that U.S. customs blocked his shipment not on any legal or import regulation grounds, but just for BS political reasons. If Gabe had fought the customs block of his shipment in court, I have no doubt he would have won and been able to bring all those mags into the U.S., but a legal fight in court with U.S. Customs would have cost in the range of at least thousands of dollars, which would have been much more than any amount he would have made from selling the mags, so I understand why he just decided to cut his losses and not fight it.

 

Anyway as a practical matter, since new Saiga 12 magazines from Cameron and Mike are in the works and likely to be available by sometime in 2010, I personally don't think it's worth it any more to go looking for Russian 8 rounders these days (unless someone wanted them as collectibles).

Edited by Frogfoot
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Ok this has been bothering me, why are these Russian mags so sought after??? I mean they are plastic, they count against you for 922r and they are not sporting, they are expensive and surefire makes an 8 round mag. So why the demand?? Ok truth be told I have not shot my factory 5 round mag yet either.

They are the most durable of any of the Saiga mags ever made, and they are OEM parts. That's why.:smoke:

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Ok this has been bothering me, why are these Russian mags so sought after??? I mean they are plastic, they count against you for 922r and they are not sporting, they are expensive and surefire makes an 8 round mag. So why the demand?? Ok truth be told I have not shot my factory 5 round mag yet either.

They are not sporting for you.

 

I know for a fact there are dozens of folks on this board who do use them in sporting events.

 

 

Don't start down the path of "Oh, but that's not a sport.", because that attitude just helps the anti-gunners get what they want. . .

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Ok this has been bothering me, why are these Russian mags so sought after??? I mean they are plastic, they count against you for 922r and they are not sporting, they are expensive and surefire makes an 8 round mag. So why the demand?? Ok truth be told I have not shot my factory 5 round mag yet either.

 

Simply stated Russian 8 rounders are utterly reliable and built like bricks (as are the Russian 5 rounders). Both the 5 and 8 round Russian magazines are mil-spec, and not only are they made out of a mil-spec polymer (which to me also seems to be noticeably denser and stronger than the polymer that AGP, Surefire, and Promag use in their mags), but they also have a steel front locking tab and currently are the only box mags available that do. If you go through all the posts on this forum of people who have reported the front locking tab on their magazine breaking off, you will find out that it was always with an AGP, Surefire, or Promag magazine, never with a Russian made magazine.

 

Now I am definitely not saying that the currently available U.S. made Saiga 12 magazines are not good mags for what they are, and in fairness comparing a Surefire Saiga 12 mag to a Russian Saiga 12 mag is just like comparing a Surefire 7.62x39 AK mag to a com-block mil-spec AK mag, in that it is sort of an apples to oranges comparison and not really fair, since U.S. manufacturers like Surefire are not trying to produce a mil-spec mag. For the typical use that us non-military, non-leo types put our Saiga 12s through, the U.S. made non-mil-spec Saiga 12 mags do fine and also do have some advantages. The main advantage of course being that they are readily available and relatively low in cost, while the Russia 8 rounders definitely are neither, and they also of course can help with 922r compliance for those who like to use magazine parts to get their Saiga 12 922r compliant. But for anyone who wants Saiga 12 box mags that can take a beating and keep on ticking, there currently is just no substitute for the Russian mags, which are on a whole other level of durability when compared to all the currently available U.S. made Saiga 12 box magazines (though this will change when Chaos and MD Arms bring out their mags in the coming year).

Edited by Frogfoot
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  • 5 months later...

I have had no problems with two shipments from Oleg and one from New Zealand which has supplied me with enough 8 round Russians that I don't need to look further. At least 1000 rounds have gone through them without issues. Given the expense that people put into their Saiga's it seems like false economy to not have a 8 round Russian or two for absolute reliability and capacity. Perhaps there will be an alternative someday, but wouldn't you rather have the security of a proven mil spec item now, instead of a vague hope for vaporware sometime in the future?

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