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I've been wanting a WWII-era bolt gun for awhile; something inexpensive and snipey. I've been looking a bit more extensively and with more fervor lately, on account of the times. I'm afraid the stocks will dry up soon. Anyhow, I'm partial to the Mosin Nagant.

 

So I have a few questions:

1) What's the most common consensus on supply? Will they get hard to find sooner than later?

2) J&G is selling these. Has anybody bought a rifle like this from them? Thoughts?

3) Is there any reason I should choose a K-31 or Enfield over the Mosin other than personal preference? Will ammo availability be any better or worse with the other bolt guns of the period?

 

Help me out, experts!

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It's not a real sniper. It's a regular Mosin Nagant that's had the scope mounted on it. Depending on the individual rifle, it may perform well, but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a fake sniper. My thoughts: you can buy a brand new modern gun and scope for around $100 more that will outperform it any day of the week.

Edited by Mike the Wolf
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I don't know how helpful this is going to be to you, if you're dead set on getting something snipey. All the military surplus rifles available today will be gone one day, just like the ones before these are gone. There will never be milsurp rifles ever again. Anything that has ever had full auto or burst capability will never be available to the American public. So the oldest American rifle you can never get milsurp is the M-14. Think about that. No gun we use today will ever be available milsurp, those old bolts, garands, sks's, and m1 carbines are all that is left and there won't be more. You'll never get a new BAR or M16 or anything like that, ever.

 

Jump on a cheap bolt of your preference ASAP. They all do the job, but the 1903's, and Enfields have much better sights on them. You can actually hit stuff with their peep sights.

 

Mauser:

You can find them from $200-500, I'd look for a bent bolt if you want one. I went with a Yugo 8mm Mauser (bent bolt), and you can get 8mm ammo for $0.25 a round shipped from www.aimsurplus.com right now. I just bubba-ed it and used non-permanent modification to add a nice scout scope rail on it in place of the rear sight.

 

Nagant:

You can get ammo for $0.20 (so cheaper than 8mm Mauser) and the gun for $100 at a gun store, or $80 + transfer fee. These also come straight bolt or bent bolt.

 

Enfield:

I don't know about getting one of these for under $300, I'd figure $500. Ammo isn't super cheap for this gun, figure cheap for terrible terrible ammo (Pakistani, Indian) or $0.50 for new manufacture non-corrosive stuff. So it'd be like shooting .308. You can get these in .308 to save yourself some trouble. These are fantastic rifles.

 

1903 Springfield:

The best. Figure $600-900 for them. Ammo is cheap, reloadable, AND non corrosive. Ammo supply for this gun beats all the others as it was used by us, and you live here. Did I mention these are awesome?

 

Doing it all over again, I'd be really tempted to get a 1903. What a fantastic gun that is. When America makes a gun, you have to assume it will have all the bells and whistles, and probably made with a lot of help from Europeans. I was told to go with a gun with peep sights, I didn't, and I don't do well with the rifle.

 

 

ETA: I didn't mention other rifles as their ammo is harder to get than these. I don't even bother with that kind of stuff. I want to shoot my guns forever.

Edited by Twinsen
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Thanks for the replies. Good info.

 

Twinsen: You make a good point about the ammo availability, and I would certainly love to have a bona fide piece of American History, but $800+ is more than I want to spend on a relic gun right now. I think I'm pretty sold on the Nagant (or perhaps the K31) and a small hill of brass cased ammo.

 

My question still stands about the online order though; is the convenience of ordering through J&G or Classic Arms worth it, or should I just resign myself to an old fashioned gun-show hunt?

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You're going to have to go to a gun store for the transfer anyway (unless you C&R), so that will add $20-40 to the cost of the gun. You also can't pick out the best of the bunch that way. I say call up gun stores within an hour of you and ask what they have for surplus rifles, then drive on down and see what you like. You might find you really like one.

 

As for the 1903, I sorta feel like my money would have been better off going towards one... but that does defeat the purpose of looking for a cheap gun. I can't blame anybody for saying they cost too much, because I didn't go for it.

 

Also, I always looked down on SKS's, until I fired one. Don't overlook those. Cheap non-corrosive ammo exists and they're semi auto.

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Twinsen: You make a good point about the ammo availability, and I would certainly love to have a bona fide piece of American History, but $800+ is more than I want to spend on a relic gun right now. I think I'm pretty sold on the Nagant (or perhaps the K31) and a small hill of brass cased ammo.

 

My question still stands about the online order though; is the convenience of ordering through J&G or Classic Arms worth it, or should I just resign myself to an old fashioned gun-show hunt?

 

You can find a New England Westinghouse M91 (Mosin Nagant) for under that ;)

 

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinM91R.htm

 

 

I enjoy shooting Mosins, got in when ammo was dirt cheap. I own a K31 but I haven't shot it yet, ammo is harder to find for it.

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I've got three so far: a 91/30, an M44 and a Finnish Model 28/76 Marksmanship Rifle.

 

If you have a C&R license, you can pick-up the 91/30 and M44 for under $100, still. The 28/76 goes for $975 at Empire Arms, I really like doing business with Dennis (the owner).

 

Ones I'm interested in getting:

Finnish rifles, these are more rare than the Russian varieties.

US-made rifles, Remington or Westinghouse.

Soviet Dragoon and Cossack rifles.

 

The K31 is a very good rifle as well and they're running out faster than the Nagants. I'd shoot the K31 all day long, if it wasn't so bloody heavy. Again, check Empire Arms (2 left) and Colorado Gun Sales, doesn't look like many other vendors still have them.

 

They also show up frequently on Gun Broker, that's where I got my last one; it included a nice leather cavalry scabbard.

Edited by vbrtrmn
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So far, I haven't found any Mosins in the PRK and only a few where I'm moving to. (They wanted $120, and the guns were falling apart!) I haven't had a chance to go to a red state gun show yet, so I may have better luck there but so far it looks like my best chance of finding what I want is a trusted online dealer like the ones mentioned. It seems like most people are happy with their rifles from these guys.

 

Thanks everybody, again. Especially with the dealer websites; my google-fu fails me when I try to find those for whatever reason.

 

Edit: Just found this on the Cali-law section of Empire Arms:

 

ANY transfer by a Class 01 dealer FFL in California, even if it would be exempt if made between private parties, requires a DROS (Dealer Record of Sale), DROS fee ($20+), background check and 10 day wait. If you have a Certificate of Eligibility (COE) you are supposed to be exempt from needing a background check.

 

They want to make me wait 10 days for a 70 year old bolt gun?? :eek: I cannot wait to leave.

Edited by JanusthePhoenix
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Janus,

 

Get your C&R license, most FFL01 dealers where I'm at in VA charge about $25 to do a transfer from something purchased off of an online dealer or gun broker. The C&R is $30, so after two guns I was even on the license fee.

 

There's a lot of good C&R stuff out there, like the Yugo and Romanian SKS, the Mosin Nagants, the Nagant Revolver, any Enfield rifle, M1 rifles, CZ-82, CZ-52, VZ-52, and on and on, well worth it to me.

 

Definitely don't pay $120 for a junk gun, check the shows, many dealers still have them in cosmoline; the cosmoline makes the gun look kind of like ass, but once you get it cleaned up they'll probably be fine; many of them look like they were never even shot, just manufactured, stuck in cosmoline and put into storage. The MOST basic you want to get is a hex receiver, they're much more desirable than the round receivers and not much more expensive. Also look for brass hardware/fittings, I usually see one or two with clean brass hardware, when looking at a stack of 10-20 rifles. When inspecting them at a show, I'll look at and inspect every rifle my preferred vendor (Liberty Arms and Surplus) has select the best one. I've bought 4 from him so far and gave two away also picked-up a Nagant pistol... those pistols are really weird!

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I just picked up a M91/30 sniper from classic arms. It was beautiful, excellent stock, great bore, new Replica scope, only light surface rust on top infront of the breach.

 

I have a synthetic stock comming.. hoping to lighten it up some.. that's a HEAVY gun.

 

All in all.. Since I can't stand "scout" scopes.. It would've cost me similar to get a non sniper mossin, get a bent bolt for it, and rig up a scope.

 

Not to mention.. None of the newer scopes are calibrated for 7.62x54(I couldn't find any that said they were).. so your range will not work correctly. You'd have to get a Russian PU scope ($230 replicas), a bent bolt (round $50, but nobody had them) and after 100 for the gun.. you're right up there anyway, in order to use the range on the scope

 

adding fuel to your indecision...lol.

Edited by Madcat455
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I just picked up a M91/30 sniper from classic arms. It was beautiful, excellent stock, great bore, new Replica scope, only light surface rust on top infront of the breach.

 

I have a synthetic stock comming.. hoping to lighten it up some.. that's a HEAVY gun.

 

All in all.. Since I can't stand "scout" scopes.. It would've cost me similar to get a non sniper mossin, get a bent bolt for it, and rig up a scope.

 

Not to mention.. None of the newer scopes are calibrated for 7.62x54(I couldn't find any that said they were).. so your range will not work correctly. You'd have to get a Russian PU scope ($230 replicas), a bent bolt (round $50, but nobody had them) and after 100 for the gun.. you're right up there anyway, in order to use the range on the scope

 

adding fuel to your indecision...lol.

 

same here, bought one from classic few weeks ago, shot it for the first time this weekend. Pretty fun gun. They're a little tricky to site in, but i used this site for reference and it was pretty helpful. http://mosinnagant.net/sniper%20section/mo...nt-sighting.asp I didn't have enough range time to fully site it in though, so no range report yet.

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Hey, I got two Mosins from J&G both of them are THE best examples out of all the mosin that I have. So defenetly buy one from them they are great, just make sure to choose hand pick.

And not I am in no way affiliated with those guys. They do take forever though and one annoying thing I have about buying from them is that they do not provide you with tracking number..... They req an adult signature when they ship and quite often I am not home when UPS shows up. Making me wait in anticipation for days while they miss me and then having to go to freaking ups store to pick it up after they attempted 3 times. So thats annoying.

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[quote name='Twinsen' date='Mar 22 2009, 07:59 PM' post='336488

1903 Springfield:

The best. Figure $600-900 for them. Ammo is cheap, reloadable, AND non corrosive. Ammo supply for this gun beats all the others as it was used by us, and you live here. Did I mention these are awesome?

 

Doing it all over again, I'd be really tempted to get a 1903. What a fantastic gun that is. When America makes a gun, you have to assume it will have all the bells and whistles, and probably made with a lot of help from Europeans. I was told to go with a gun with peep sights, I didn't, and I don't do well with the rifle.

 

Yes, these are phenomenal rifles. I lucked out and bought a 1903A3 off a friend in mint condition and I do not know why he sold it. I guess after 3yrs of me buggin' him about it he gave in. I gave him $600.00. The receiver was made in 1929 (new hardened type) and was rebarreled in March 1942 for the War but the bore, 4 groove, is pristine. It came with a scant stock but I relaced it with a New C-stock from Numrich, a new in wrap bent bolt, trigger group all in cosmoline and scoped it with a S&K 1903A3 mount. The mount does not require altering the rifle and looks and works very well. Bought a buttload of CMP greek .30 M1 ammo when it was available in the wood crates with two sealed tins to the crate. This stuff is like new. Anyway, I was able to strike a 3in pipe @300m with iron sites. I figured it was a lucky hit. Not so, this gun can do it. It is impressive, just solid wood and steel. The barrel is twice as thick as my K-98's. They do not make 'em like that anymore!

Edited by U.S Praetorian
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I guess all that's left is to get my C&R FFL, but of course by the time I get the forms, send them off and wait to get my license, I'll have a new address. <_<

How far off till you move? If you get your C&R you can buy a basic 91/30 direct from Southern Ohio Guns, they have them for $69.95. Some local FFL dealers have been known to extend SOG's price to good customers, but that's all subjective to the dealer; if you frequent one it wouldn't hurt to ask. The one thing you should remember with the C&R is that you're supposed to keep the rifle in original shape, since C&R geared toward firearm collectors, so you can't add a poly stock, if you were considering doing that.

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I guess all that's left is to get my C&R FFL, but of course by the time I get the forms, send them off and wait to get my license, I'll have a new address. <_<

How far off till you move? If you get your C&R you can buy a basic 91/30 direct from Southern Ohio Guns, they have them for $69.95. Some local FFL dealers have been known to extend SOG's price to good customers, but that's all subjective to the dealer; if you frequent one it wouldn't hurt to ask. The one thing you should remember with the C&R is that you're supposed to keep the rifle in original shape, since C&R geared toward firearm collectors, so you can't add a poly stock, if you were considering doing that.

 

I'll be moving in less than 8 weeks, hopefully. Judging from what I've read about the time involved in sending off for paperwork and having the license mailed to me and then getting myself on file with the dealer, THEN buying the gun and waiting for the delivery, it's a good chance I'd be gone by then.

 

And no, I don't really see the point in modifying the Mosin beyond a recoil pad and a scope, so I'd just keep it as is mostly.

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Remember there are still an ass-ton of them around, the only thing which I've seen start to go away are the K31's; if you're at all interested in one of those, get it now. I don't really see the Mosin Naganats going away in the next year. All the distributors I look at always have a bunch, last year Century was selling freaking cases of them, plus they're bolt action, so they're never going to get banned. You may wind up paying a bit more in 4 months, when you get your license, but I'm talking $5-$10 more, not $100 more, heh. Shit, if you get your license and can't get one locally, I promise I'll sell you one of mine for a fair price, how's that?

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Remember there are still an ass-ton of them around, the only thing which I've seen start to go away are the K31's; if you're at all interested in one of those, get it now. I don't really see the Mosin Naganats going away in the next year. All the distributors I look at always have a bunch, last year Century was selling freaking cases of them, plus they're bolt action, so they're never going to get banned. You may wind up paying a bit more in 4 months, when you get your license, but I'm talking $5-$10 more, not $100 more, heh. Shit, if you get your license and can't get one locally, I promise I'll sell you one of mine for a fair price, how's that?

 

Heh, deal. :D

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Here's my Yugo M48 Mauser as it is today, bubba-ed. That rail is non-permanent, it takes the place of the rear site which I have in a drawer. I could change it back inside of 5 minutes to non-bubba:

P1010668.jpg

P1010670.jpg

P1010671.jpg

 

 

I put on an S&K Scope Mount, and I'm looking at scout scopes for it. I'm thinking this one, as this type of scope is a pain in the butt to find:

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-shootin...28mm-ier-scout/

Edited by Twinsen
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Here's my Yugo M48 Mauser as it is today, bubba-ed. That rail is non-permanent, it takes the place of the rear site which I have in a drawer. I could change it back inside of 5 minutes to non-bubba:

P1010668.jpg

P1010670.jpg

P1010671.jpg

 

 

I put on an S&K Scope Mount, and I'm looking at scout scopes for it. I'm thinking this one, as this type of scope is a pain in the butt to find:

http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-shootin...28mm-ier-scout/

Nice looking gun. Was the mount pretty easy to put on? I have been looking at these mounts for awhile. As for scopes, go for a Burris 2-7x32 ballistic plex handgun scope. Have one on an M1 Garand they are great.

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AH! Burris, I'm going to go look at them right now... ah they cost even more! WTF! Man, looking at optics is depressing. They all cost a paycheck. I bought a Leupold for my 10/22, and it's fantastic! I'm really impressed with their optics. I wanted as small and light of a scope as possible that had any clarity, and Leupold won for what I could see at Cabela's. This time, I went to Cabela's and they didn't have crap to look at for long eye relief, they had a Simmons scope that the salesman told me not to buy, and then a couple Leupolds for like $500 that looked great. They had one that had 20" of eye relief, and after holding it out that far, I wondered what the hell kind of arms people have that they can use one of those. It couldn't even be mounted on the rail of my Yugo, it was too far.

 

The mount is so easy to put on it's ridiculous. You tap out the pin in the rear sight, push down on the rear sight, then slide it out backwards. Then you slide out the leaf spring that held the sight in, and replace it with a nut. The rest is just screwing down 5 bolts in the right order. Figure 15 minutes to figure out how everything goes on, tightening in the right order, and you're done. Taking it back apart would take nothing. It seems solid as a rock, I held the gun by the mount and waved it around like an ass, no movement. So that tells me it is more steady than the iron sights. Funny thing about shaking and old bolt like these, nothing moves. No moving parts when the bolt is out of the gun.

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You are paying for the 2-7 feature but it is exceptional glass. The regular reticle is cheaper by 10 bucks. At optics planet the cheapest I saw is $322.00 shipped with a 5% off coupon. You may want to look at their (Burris ) scout scopes. They are a good deal cheaper but 2.5 magnification only. Otherwise yeah, it is depressing.

Edited by U.S Praetorian
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Oh, I forgot to ask, what's the point in the more expensive reticle? Do the dots mean something for somebody shooting 8mm?

 

But yeah, if only I could get both of these scopes and my rifle in the same room, so I could make a decision.

Edited by Twinsen
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Oh, I forgot to ask, what's the point in the more expensive reticle? Do the dots mean something for somebody shooting 8mm?

 

But yeah, if only I could get both of these scopes and my rifle in the same room, so I could make a decision.

The hash marks are a BDC, I'm sure you knew that. You can make it work for 8mm. It is not far off of 30.06 or 7.62x54R. I guess you do not really need it, it's a personal choice. I actually got mine because I was looking at the bushnell scope that is similar and half the price but Natchez sent me a flyer that they were on sale and I got it. It was like $285.

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