the LaRue AK Irondot

[malix 0]

I have one of those side mount Kobras on my 7.62x39. I love it.

 

Its extremely rugged, built like a tank. But you wont be able to use the iron sights while its mounted.

Edited May 1, 2009 by malix

[kendo671 1]

My problem is that I already purchased a dph saiga tri rail, and thats not compatible with the ultimak gas tube. I want to be able to co-witness and so far everything ive read about the FF is good. Yes burris is known to fail but I havent really heard anything about the doctor standard which is why im asking. I guess all the more reason to save money with FF so I can buy Saiga 308

[mstranglr 9]

I waited 3 months to get mine (I heard it is a six month wait now). I got the Burris Model, figuring that their rifle scopes are pretty decent quality, so why spend more for the Doctor optic?

 

It mounted easy and looked good on the Saiga I put it on. Then, it went downhill from there;

 

* The red dot flickers and pulsates (more than a PK-23), which I do not like. I called to confirm that the flicker is normal and was told that is what the optic does? This was a huge disapointment to me.

* For fun, I decided to use it in a 3-gun match at Piru. It started to rain and the optic went dead. A battery change fixed nothing. Two days later, I decided to try it again before I called LaRue to complain, and it worked. A week later I used it again during a very light drizzle, and the same thing happened, and functioned normally after it dried out. It is not a water proof optic, and Burris makes no claim that it is. The circutry is exposed.

* On bright, sunny California days, the red dot often dissapears.

* The window gets foggy / hazy very easily

* I would not put this on anything my life may depend on.

 

I would not trust my life to that optic. I traded it for 1,000 rounds of Golden Tiger (when it was selling for $229) and called it a lesson learned. The guy I traded it to likes it, but has only shot with it once. I made him aware of my issues with that optic.

 

The mount itself is great. In fact, I wish they made one with a rail so you can pick your own optic (like an Aimpoint Micro). The mount sits low, and keeps your optic from being cooked like an Ultimak does during training with high round counts. And allows the optic to be the perfect distance from the eye, like an optic on a flat-top M4.

 

I still shoot 3-gun with my PK-ASV and have never found anything for the AK that compares to its ruggedness, although it is heavy. My wife uses a millet red-dot mounted on a BP-02 and loves it because that baby sits low.

 

At the end of the day, I guess I still prefer the regular Iron sights to any kind of optic for the AK at this point.

[Paladin 37]

DD and Tony are freaking me out with the Fast Fire fail talk. Now I'm just waiting for mine to die!

 

I guess you can only go with your own experience, mine and my buddy's have seen 1000's of rounds between them with nary a glitch.

 

I WAS going to buy a second one for the S12, but now I'm thinking I may just have to pony up for a Aimpoint (ouch)

[VladTepes 160]

glad i invested in Aimpoint..

 

thanks for the review...

[kendo671 1]

deleted for double posting

Edited May 2, 2009 by kendo671

[kendo671 1]

I waited 3 months to get mine (I heard it is a six month wait now). I got the Burris Model, figuring that their rifle scopes are pretty decent quality, so why spend more for the Doctor optic?

 

It mounted easy and looked good on the Saiga I put it on. Then, it went downhill from there;

 

* The red dot flickers and pulsates (more than a PK-23), which I do not like. I called to confirm that the flicker is normal and was told that is what the optic does? This was a huge disapointment to me.

* For fun, I decided to use it in a 3-gun match at Piru. It started to rain and the optic went dead. A battery change fixed nothing. Two days later, I decided to try it again before I called LaRue to complain, and it worked. A week later I used it again during a very light drizzle, and the same thing happened, and functioned normally after it dried out. It is not a water proof optic, and Burris makes no claim that it is. The circutry is exposed.

* On bright, sunny California days, the red dot often dissapears.

* The window gets foggy / hazy very easily

* I would not put this on anything my life may depend on.

 

I would not trust my life to that optic. I traded it for 1,000 rounds of Golden Tiger (when it was selling for $229) and called it a lesson learned. The guy I traded it to likes it, but has only shot with it once. I made him aware of my issues with that optic.

 

The mount itself is great. In fact, I wish they made one with a rail so you can pick your own optic (like an Aimpoint Micro). The mount sits low, and keeps your optic from being cooked like an Ultimak does during training with high round counts. And allows the optic to be the perfect distance from the eye, like an optic on a flat-top M4.

 

I still shoot 3-gun with my PK-ASV and have never found anything for the AK that compares to its ruggedness, although it is heavy. My wife uses a millet red-dot mounted on a BP-02 and loves it because that baby sits low.

 

At the end of the day, I guess I still prefer the regular Iron sights to any kind of optic for the AK at this point.

Thanks DD for your post. I appreciate postive and negative feedback. But It doesnt seem clear to me yet if the Doctor MRD is worth the extra money spent? Your experience is with the burris FF.

 

I know my other option for having a cowitness optic is the ultimak/aimpoint setup. But with my financial situation I dont think I can afford that

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I have one of those side mount Kobras on my 7.62x39. I love it.

 

Its extremely rugged, built like a tank. But you wont be able to use the iron sights while its mounted.

 

But of course it doesn't matter.. since you can strip off that Kobra in about a second, toss it to the side if necessary, and go to irons.

 

I still think the LaRue mount looks damn sweet, and on a rifle with a flat sided receiver I'd probably go with one, but since I have a receiver side mount on my SGL20, (unlike my Yugo AK), I've decided to use it, and the Kobra seems to be about as tough and dependable as sights come.

 

And of course.. it's the same price or cheaper than the Burris AK Irondot.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

The new AK Irondots use the FF2 (wrote and asked to confirm) which IS waterproof.

 

My FF1 on my shotgun has no issues, but i haven't used it in the rain yet

[kendo671 1]

The new AK Irondots use the FF2 (wrote and asked to confirm) which IS waterproof.

 

My FF1 on my shotgun has no issues, but i haven't used it in the rain yet

 

Is the FF2 the bulgarian fastfire or something else? On the purchase page theres 4 types.

 

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=134

[chabanais 0]

That's some serious cash. I put a $45 Leapers red dot on and it works great. Small groupings and red or green light. You do have to flip open the caps but I don't think that's a big deal. And much cheaper too.

 

[mwpage 0]

Check out Sig's reflex sight on GB if you're interested in an "aimpoint micro" style sight that won't break the bank. Downside is I can guarantee it'll need a high mount to co witness.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

The new AK Irondots use the FF2 (wrote and asked to confirm) which IS waterproof.

 

My FF1 on my shotgun has no issues, but i haven't used it in the rain yet

 

Is the FF2 the bulgarian fastfire or something else? On the purchase page theres 4 types.

 

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=134

 

No Kendo, i just emailed them and asked. They said "All new 2009 models are Fast-Fire 2, the older ones are FF1"

[protected static 19]

The new AK Irondots use the FF2 (wrote and asked to confirm) which IS waterproof.

 

My FF1 on my shotgun has no issues, but i haven't used it in the rain yet

 

Is the FF2 the bulgarian fastfire or something else? On the purchase page theres 4 types.

 

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=134

The 'Bulgarian' vs. 'Standard' refers to the AK that the IronDot will be mounted on - there are probably differences in the size of the rear sight block, or some such... I'd imagine that Saigas count as 'standard' but I wouldn't lay out that much cash without checking with LaRue first...

[madmax4x4 68]

what happened to the larue ak irondot? I'm trying to buy one and I cant find it.

[bigsal 757]

what happened to the larue ak irondot? I'm trying to buy one and I cant find it.

The Burris Optic was a huge failure and they never made it work with the aimpoint. Move on to better things Madmax4x4!

[my762buzz 141]

I used several different optics in the past and when it comes to red dots they are not all made exactly the same. The cheap chinese walmart specials might as well have elmers glue holding the internals in place and all it takes is just enough recoil force shock or heat to shake or melt them loose. If such has managed to last a while on your AK, consider yourself lucky.

Here is just a few things to consider about this topic.

Aimpoint :

- invented the red dot sight system more than 30 years ago

- they have a parallax free dot system and where ever you place the dot that is where the bullet goes even if your eye to reticle alignment position moves from shot to shot and no other red dot company I know of claims this patented technology benefit

- the aimpoint system has very wide temperature tolerances from extreme cold to extreme heat

- it has been used on heavy recoiling rifles in documented hunts over the past 30 years from kodiac bear to cape buffalo

- When the US military decided to finally award the first red dot optic contract they chose aimpoint and this was the world's first military contract for red dot optics in 1997 which even though they had been used before this on military weapons it was not on an official contract order basis and this is considering that military and police units have used aimpoint long before this contract date. At this point, it has been 20 years on worldwide use on military and police weapons.

- these are made in sweden as opposed to some high paced low quality unskilled labor assembly line in China in other words if I want to depend on this I would prefer that someone knew what the hell they were doing was assembling this rather than Mrs. Chi that just got hired at some chinese muli product manufacturing complex.

 

As far as price is concerned, in a free world economy this is based on demand. Aimpoint has built a reputation that has spawned great demand for its optic system.

It has a time tested design that works better than and endures more punishment than most of its competitors in the market price range it competes with. It is the ak of red dot optics.

 

The La Rue iron dot mount is a great location that allows easy access to the dust cover and gas tube without taking it off. I wouldn't want a burris red dot and that alone is a deal breaker for me. If they change it to accept a low picatinney rail, I would get one or two.

[Dudethebagman 222]

 

As far as price is concerned, in a free world economy this is based on demand. Aimpoint has built a reputation that has spawned great demand for its optic system.

It has a time tested design that works better than and endures more punishment than most of its competitors in the market price range it competes with. It is the ak of red dot optics.

 

 

Not to mention that because the government uses it, everyone else HAS to have one, which raises demand, which raises the price.

I'm not saying they don't make a quality optic, but my cheap Bushnell has held up for over 1000 rounds for 1/5 the price, and is still running on the original battery.

A good part of what you're paying for is that brand name and prestige (social demand), not just the quality that comes with the product.

If Aimpoint built a better Beanie Baby, it would still be just a Beanie Baby (social hysteria be damned). For me, the utility didn't justify the price. That being said, if I had the money to burn and needed an optic...

[my762buzz 141]

 

As far as price is concerned, in a free world economy this is based on demand. Aimpoint has built a reputation that has spawned great demand for its optic system.

It has a time tested design that works better than and endures more punishment than most of its competitors in the market price range it competes with. It is the ak of red dot optics.

 

 

Not to mention that because the government uses it, everyone else HAS to have one, which raises demand, which raises the price.

I'm not saying they don't make a quality optic, but my cheap Bushnell has held up for over 1000 rounds for 1/5 the price, and is still running on the original battery.

A good part of what you're paying for is that brand name and prestige (social demand), not just the quality that comes with the product.

If Aimpoint built a better Beanie Baby, it would still be just a Beanie Baby (social hysteria be damned). For me, the utility didn't justify the price. That being said, if I had the money to burn and needed an optic...

 

Glad you reminded me about the battery issue. How many red dot sights can go 5000 hours of battery life like aimpoint? I don't know of one.

This can be a money value issue too. How many battery replacements will it take to get 5000 hours from regular batteries in other red dot sights and at what price?

Several years ago I remember having to replace batteries in a bushnell holosight aka EOtech a few times a year with very little range use. $7 each time was what it cost then

If I used it to train more often with, it might be more like $70 a year for several replacements. This adds up enough that 5000 hour battery life of an aimpoint will cost you less in battery replacements over time which could mean that after a few years of that an aimpoint ends up costing less than a much cheaper option. It can pay for itself over time in this case.

 

Edit to add: The new aimpoint comp M4 is rated at 80,000 hours of battery life from only 1 AA battery and Aimpoint micro T1 is 50,000 hours.

Edited November 19, 2010 by my762buzz

[jimdigriz 580]

Edit to add: The new aimpoint comp M4 is rated at 80,000 hours of battery life from only 1 AA battery and Aimpoint micro T1 is 50,000 hours.

 

This was the main reason why Aimpoint won out with me over EOTech. I just leave it on all the time.

[my762buzz 141]

Edit to add: The new aimpoint comp M4 is rated at 80,000 hours of battery life from only 1 AA battery and Aimpoint micro T1 is 50,000 hours.

 

This was the main reason why Aimpoint won out with me over EOTech. I just leave it on all the time.

 

That alone is much to love about it.

 

If I could get a decent AA battery for $0.50 each, with about 10 hours of battery life being maybe the most on some cheap dot optic 50,000 hours would require

5,000 batteries at $0.50 so I would need $2500 to get the same performance time. All of a sudden the cheap optic option does not look so cheap anymore.

[Dudethebagman 222]

Edit to add: The new aimpoint comp M4 is rated at 80,000 hours of battery life from only 1 AA battery and Aimpoint micro T1 is 50,000 hours.

 

This was the main reason why Aimpoint won out with me over EOTech. I just leave it on all the time.

 

That alone is much to love about it.

 

If I could get a decent AA battery for $0.50 each, with about 10 hours of battery life being maybe the most on some cheap dot optic 50,000 hours would require

5,000 batteries at $0.50 so I would need $2500 to get the same performance time. All of a sudden the cheap optic option does not look so cheap anymore.

 

If you were in Afghanistan and needed to run it 24/7 365, maybe not. But then Uncle Sam would be footing the bill anyway.

It's still a lot cheaper for me, and I have cowitness for even if the power is not on/battery is dead (and the original cr123 battery has lasted a probably 3 years so far with the amount I use it, even leaving it on overnight accidentally a couple times).

Still cheaper for me by several hundred dollars, and more than sufficient for my needs. I could pay for a pistol or a couple cases of ammo for the price difference.

Aimpoint IS probably better, but I just couldn't justify it to myself for the price.

Your needs/priorities may vary.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Dudethebagman

[my762buzz 141]

Aimpoint IS probably better, but I just couldn't justify it to myself for the price.

Your needs/priorities may vary.

 

I usually try to aim for objectivity when comparing products but I think it is nearly impossible to come off as objective because when money is a factor it

draws very subjective feelings. Someone always seems to get upset or offended. Sorry if this is the case.

[Dudethebagman 222]

Aimpoint IS probably better, but I just couldn't justify it to myself for the price.

Your needs/priorities may vary.

 

I usually try to aim for objectivity when comparing products but I think it is nearly impossible to come off as objective because when money is a factor it

draws very subjective feelings. Someone always seems to get upset or offended. Sorry if this is the case.

 

Agreed. Also, what is "best" is also pretty user specific. Is a long or short barrel better? 308 or x39? It depends on the role that needs to be filled. What is sufficient for one person may be unnecessary or insufficient for another. A 308 will do everything an x39 will, only better. That doesn't make an x39 crap. If an x39 fills your needs, it's plenty good enough to fill its intended role. That's all I'm saying.

To each his own.

We're good.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Dudethebagman

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

And here's something in between the cheap Walmart red dots and Aimpoints; the PK23-01:

 

 

This is the red dot I ended up going with; ~$215 shipped from Belarus. Using the included side-mount, the scope sits quite low, and you still get an excellent cheek weld when using it. Any 30mm scope rings can be used to mount this optic, and Kalinka sells a side-mount that allows it to co-witness with factory irons.

 

It doesn't have the exceptional battery life of an Aimpoint, but it's not too bad, (~100 hrs per set of 2 batteries). The blinking 1 MOA reticle is unique afaik, and works quite well.

 

ymmv.

Edited November 23, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[jimdigriz 580]

Any 30mm scope rings can be used to mount this optic, and Kalinka sells a side-mount that allows it to co-witness with factory irons.

 

That mount has been reviewed VERY poorly over at theakforum.net and a couple of other places. Another vendor will be putting out a co-witnessing mount with 30 mm rings next month. Hopefully it will be better.

[bigsal 757]

Any 30mm scope rings can be used to mount this optic, and Kalinka sells a side-mount that allows it to co-witness with factory irons.

 

That mount has been reviewed VERY poorly over at theakforum.net and a couple of other places. Another vendor will be putting out a co-witnessing mount with 30 mm rings next month. Hopefully it will be better.

which vendor Jim? I have not been following this....

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Any 30mm scope rings can be used to mount this optic, and Kalinka sells a side-mount that allows it to co-witness with factory irons.

 

That mount has been reviewed VERY poorly over at theakforum.net and a couple of other places. Another vendor will be putting out a co-witnessing mount with 30 mm rings next month. Hopefully it will be better.

 

I haven't used it, so I didn't comment on its quality. It sounds like the problem/s will be solved soon, with the new product. If not, tbh I don't care that much. I like the factory mount.

[jimdigriz 580]

I haven't used it, so I didn't comment on its quality. It sounds like the problem/s will be solved soon, with the new product. If not, tbh I don't care that much. I like the factory mount.

 

You must not have yet experienced the rapturous wonder of being able to use irons and/or red dot without doing anything to your gun. ;-)

[jimdigriz 580]

which vendor Jim? I have not been following this....

 

Check this thread, especially the last few pages:

http://www.theakforum.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=133907