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6x42 vs 6x24 POSP


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I'm looking at a scope for my 16" .223 Siaga that I have done the .223 magazine conversion to. I'm looking at buying through East Wave as I have had good experience with them in the past and they have good prices.

 

I have a 6x42 POSP on my Siaga 7.62x39 and a 8x42 POSP on my Saiga 308. I like the turrets, reticle, and brightness the POSP gives. However I'm seriously looking at the 6x24 as a lighter and more compact alternative. My only questions is how much dimmer will the view through the scope be? Evening/night view? Any other advantages/disadvantages to the 6x24 vs the 6x42?

 

/Thanks in advance for your help.

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6x24 has a smaller 24mm objective lens, 6x42 has a larger 42mm objective lens. 24mm is lighter, can sit lower to the bore, and makes for a more compact rifle. 42mm has a larger field of view and has greater light gathering ability for improved low-light clarity, but at the expense of being heavier and larger.

 

MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR POSP SCOPES = The 400 meter recticle is calibrated for the 7.62x39 round. The 1,000 meter recticle is calibrated for the 7.62x54R "light ball" round. I have found that the holdover points etched into the POSP scopes are pretty useless for the .223 round, as it shoots much flatter than the x39 and lacks the distance ballistics of x54R. I would pick a western style optic for use with a .223 rifle. YMMV.

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Yea, I like the compact size of the 24mm objective and am hoping that the lighter weight/more compact package is an acceptable trade off. Though I am still worried about the brightness of the picture through the scope so I may just get a 6x42 and be done with it

 

I'm going to be shooting reduced charge .223 in this gun for better suppression. (Yes Yes I know the AK isn't the idea suppressed weapons platform, but it will cycle decently with proper reduced charges and the backpressure of a can will further improve this.) Thus the drop compensator will be more important because it won't shoot as flat as a regular 223. The open turrets will also allow me to easily zero the gun between the reduced and full power ammo by just taping the settings to the top of the scope.

 

I'm kind of leaning away from the adjustable scopes. 1. Cost, they are significantly more expensive vs their fixed power counterparts and I don't feel it's worth the price. 2: Many don't have the bullet drop markings and I want those, though this 2.5-5x24 on East Wave does and the price isn't half bad. So If I sprung for an adjustable I would lean toward that one.

 

I'm also looking at a POSP 8x42 WD weaver mount for my 77/44 Silent Destroyer I'm having built by Tom Denall. The POSP drop comp will be handy for the subsonic 44 slugs I'll be shooting. (Put a hammer and sickle on the front scope cap w/the caption "From Russia with love". :haha: )

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IMO, even with the reduced charge .223, you are going to find the bullet drop compensator on the POSP useless. I have used almost every bullet drop compensation system out there (Ziess z-plex, Leupold B&C, Burris BDC, Nikon, Shepard, Etc.) and the POSP is by FAR the worst of the bunch as far as being dialed in for a round. If you are not using 147-150 grain 7.62x54R for the 1000m and 123-125gr 7.62x39 for the 400m, the markings are way off - and with a fixed power scope, there is no way to adjust for different trajectories, you are stuck with the factory setting. If you set up paper at various distances to confirm the marks, you will end up using another scope. Trust me on this, been there done that.

 

If you really want a BDC scope that works for various loads, I have found the Burris BDC to be the best system. I have my BDC adjusted on a Saiga .308 shooting mean -2" at 500 yards with a 100 yd zero at about 8.25 power.

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IMO, even with the reduced charge .223, you are going to find the bullet drop compensator on the POSP useless.

 

I find the drop comp to be quite useful. I temporarily put my 6x42 from my 7.62x39 onto my .223 and played around with it. You just have to take the time to find what range the chevrons correspond to. Just like you should with ANY SCOPE YOU HAVE, POSP or not. Don't take the manuals word, find out yourself so you are confident with the gun/scope combo. You can't just plunk a scope onto a gun and expect it to do all the work for you right off the bat.

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IMO, even with the reduced charge .223, you are going to find the bullet drop compensator on the POSP useless.

 

I find the drop comp to be quite useful. I temporarily put my 6x42 from my 7.62x39 onto my .223 and played around with it. You just have to take the time to find what range the chevrons correspond to. Just like you should with ANY SCOPE YOU HAVE, POSP or not. Don't take the manuals word, find out yourself so you are confident with the gun/scope combo. You can't just plunk a scope onto a gun and expect it to do all the work for you right off the bat.

 

 

Have at it, but are you actually going to set up paper at so many intervals out to 400 yards to find what the lower chevrons correspond to? Even if you are able to do this, you will have some funky numbers to match the chevrons (like 276 yards at the second chevron) because a downloaded 223 still has about half the bullet drop of 7.62x39. This will facilitate some funky and confusing holdovers between the chevrons, and your windage marks are flat-out unusable. Or you could work out how many clicks to put you right on at the various chevrons with your load. IMO, you would do less work and have more accuracy using a mil-dot system. The BDC reticles are for fast target ranging and shooting, without needing to consult a ballistic chart. Trust me, this has been tried many times, and most people end up bad-mouthing the scope because of it. You really see this when people try to use the 1000m reticle with the .308 round.

 

If you got the adjustable objective POSP scope, you could find your corr@100m, set your correction at 400 yards and be right on at every chevron. This is why an odjustable objective is almost mandatory with a BDC reticle.

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OK I now have to call bullshit on your claims. .223 shoots flatter than 7.62x39, but it's not THAT flat a shooting cartridge. Your claim that "downloaded 223 still has about half the bullet drop of 7.62x39." stinks so bad I can't even get close to it.

 

Please explain to me how a reduced 55 grain .223 round traveling at a 2600 fps mv can have "half the bullet drop of 7.62x39" when the 7.62x39 has a mv of around 2400 fps and a better BC to boot.

 

The .223 is a bullet, not a laser beam.

 

Name: 7.62x39 Generic External Ballistics

Ballistic Coeff: 0.300

Bullet Weight: 123

Velocity: 2400

Target Distance: 198 (MPBR)

Scope Height: 1.500

Temperature: 70

Altitude: 500

 

Ballistic Data

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect

0 yds -1.50 in 2400 fps 1573 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in

25 yds 0.24 in 2333 fps 1486 fpe 0.032 sec 0.19 in -0.55 in 0.08 in

50 yds 1.58 in 2266 fps 1402 fpe 0.064 sec 0.79 in -0.40 in 0.35 in

75 yds 2.50 in 2201 fps 1323 fpe 0.098 sec 1.81 in -0.13 in 0.79 in

100 yds 2.96 in 2137 fps 1247 fpe 0.133 sec 3.28 in 0.26 in 1.39 in

125 yds 2.95 in 2073 fps 1174 fpe 0.169 sec 5.22 in 0.78 in 2.16 in

150 yds 2.46 in 2011 fps 1105 fpe 0.205 sec 7.65 in 1.44 in 3.08 in

175 yds 1.43 in 1950 fps 1038 fpe 0.243 sec 10.62 in 2.26 in 4.21 in

200 yds -0.15 in 1890 fps 975 fpe 0.281 sec 14.13 in 3.25 in 5.52 in

225 yds -2.38 in 1831 fps 916 fpe 0.322 sec 18.29 in 4.43 in 7.12 in

250 yds -5.29 in 1774 fps 859 fpe 0.364 sec 23.14 in 5.83 in 9.00 in

275 yds -8.91 in 1718 fps 806 fpe 0.407 sec 28.70 in 7.45 in 11.14 in

300 yds -13.27 in 1664 fps 756 fpe 0.452 sec 34.99 in 9.32 in 13.51 in

 

q0exdhr518.jpg

 

At 250 yard there is a grand total of 7" of difference between the two. The advantage of the .223 will of course show more at longer range, but it will still be dropping significantly. Of course that is with a 55 grain bullet in the .223 vs the .307 62 grain bullet, but 55 grain is what I will be using most of the time so that I what I am comparing.

 

If anything, a reduced .223 would have MORE drop than a 7.62x39, depending on what you have in terms of BC and mv to work with.

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Watch the attitude you fucking little internet prick! No one was insulting you!

 

Sorry, I was looking at regular 55gr .223 with a MV of 3240 (most commonly used Remington UMC, federal American Eagle, etc.) vs 7.62x39 - of which the 7.62x39 has MORE THAN twice the bullet drop of .223.

 

5.56x45, 55gr, MV 3240, 100 yard zero

100 yards = 00"

200 yards = -2.3"

300 yards = -8.9"

400 yards = -20.4

 

7.62x39, 124gr Wolf MC, 100 yd zero

100 yards = 00"

200 yards = -5.5"

300 yards = -19.2"

400 yards = -42.3"

 

Conclusion = regular .223 ammo is unusable with the lower chevrons on a POSP scope! Who the fuck said anything about a lazer?????

 

I don't know what the hell the load is that you posted that data for, but I doubt many people are using it. That is a very poor and unrealistic comparison of the 2 rounds, unless you were throwing that out as a "reduced load". Even if that was your intention, that reduced load would require scope holdover at the POSP chevrons at: 3.5" at the 200 chevron, 8.8" at the at the 300 chevron, and 12.6 at the 400 chevron - you might as well use the irons with the elevation adjustment.

 

If you are really loading the 55gr down to 2,600 FPS or less at the muzzle, than that may work pretty closely to the 7.62x39, But I did not expect you to load that weak - not a very lethal round IMO, but should be quiet.

 

Listen, your asshole comments aside, it would be easier to get a western style optic of better quality for around the same price that you can adjust to any load, than to jump through hoops trying to force a scope to work that is not made for what you want it do to. Use it and have fun, but know that it is a there are better options in the same price range.

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Watch the attitude you fucking little internet prick! No one was insulting you!

 

OOOOO, big talk from someone at a keyboard hundreds of miles away from me, I'm scared. Read through this thread and see who started calling names first.

 

I called into questions your claims of the POSP being unusable for the .223. You resorted to name calling. I know your statements are crap not only from a ballistics standpoint, yes the 7.62x39 drops more than .223 but no so much to make the drop points unusable, but from personal experience. I used my 6x42 POSP, that I have on my 7.62x39, on my .223 to good effect. It works, it's useful.

 

I've gotten useful feedback from other forums and I'll go with that input I got.

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