killoblivion 0 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 I was wondering if there was anyone who has cut a SBS Saiga 12 barrel down to even with the full length gas system. Would there still be enough pressure to cycle the gas system? If there is a picture of one out there I would like to see it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Yes, I have seen a couple. They were sent in to Tromix because they would no longer cycle. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) +1 for a Bolt-Action S-12. Back in the earlier days of the Saiga 12, I remember seeing them fairly often. Guys would happily saw off their barrels and post pics. The braver ones would come back later and admit their gun wouldn't run. The less brave ones simply faded away. We really need a sticky for Tony's (and to a lesser extent, my) posts about building shorties, it would save a lot of time and grief. Edited March 31, 2009 by BobAsh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilitaryWeapons 0 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 Ditto!!! I purchased a SBS saiga 12c without first test firing it and it will not run. I have no idea what to do........ Any ideas? fish_on@verizon.net Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted March 31, 2009 Report Share Posted March 31, 2009 (edited) Ditto!!! I purchased a SBS saiga 12c without first test firing it and it will not run. I have no idea what to do........ Any ideas? fish_on@verizon.net Unscrupulous seller, IMO. Post a pic and I'll give you an opinion. But if the barrel is cut off even with the gas block, it's going to be a bitch. It's a lot more work to shorten them once it's already been cut. Edited March 31, 2009 by BobAsh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilitaryWeapons 0 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=at...st&id=21474 BobAsh, Sorry for the delay. Here is the pic... If it is FKED up I wouldn't mind extending the existing barrel or replacing it all together. What do you think?? Edited April 2, 2009 by MilitaryWeapons Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 There are 3 options, really. 1) Have the gas block moved back. Most expensive option with the best result. 2) Replace the barrel and start from scratch. ugh. 3) Open the gas ports and see if it will cycle on heavy loads. If the barrel is around 11", it could work. As long as you don't mind shooting only high power loads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 What a shame... Bobash, you and tony would know. If I port my barrel at say 12 or 13", does that in essence give me like a 15" gun because the pressure begins to bleed off early but not to the point of Total, bleeding? Or does it in essence give me a 12 or 13" gun? I have GunFixer's Gas plug and mine will cycle the light stuff just BARELY on setting one, and on setting 3 it throws em good. I figure if i lose a bit of gas it won't matter much if i can use the 3rd gas setting. Thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sudaevpps43 31 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?act=at...st&id=21474 Now that just pisses me off. Whoever chopped this Saiga 12C should be hunted down and thrown into a live volcano. That $h!thead took an actual Izhmash factory Saiga 12C, not some conversion of a regular Saiga 12, but an actual Saiga 12C which are the rarest of the rare Saiga 12s here in the U.S., and just completely screws it up with their bubba-fied gunsmithing barrel chop job. What's worse is that not only did the idiot obviously not have any clue about how Saiga 12s function, but they didn't have any common sense either. An authentic factory original Saiga 12C would sell for more in its original form than it would have as an SBS, even if the conversion to SBS had been done right. Edited April 2, 2009 by Frogfoot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 If I port my barrel at say 12 or 13", does that in essence give me like a 15" gun because the pressure begins to bleed off early but not to the point of Total, bleeding? Or does it in essence give me a 12 or 13" gun? Not exactly, but the porting will lose gas for sure. Tony's (ported) competition gun had the short gas system. I'm sure Alex can give you some guidance on this; it's his midbrake, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Yah but i don't want to set the gasblock back if i dont need to. I guess I'll just run tests on it. If it works perfectly before I port, then afterwards, has FTE's, i'll know i need more gas! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilitaryWeapons 0 Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 There are 3 options, really. 1) Have the gas block moved back. Most expensive option with the best result. 2) Replace the barrel and start from scratch. ugh. 3) Open the gas ports and see if it will cycle on heavy loads. If the barrel is around 11", it could work. As long as you don't mind shooting only high power loads. BobAsh Is this something you guys can do??? I think I would like to convert it back to the minimum non-SBS length with a shark brake. What are your thoughts. And what do you think something like that would cost (roughly). I also find it hard to believe some one would bubba the 12C. I grabbed it because I knew there are not that many out there even though it was bubbafied..... I hope I can get it working and enjoy it..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 If it didn't have a SBS stamp now I'd wait and get a full length barrel from someone that switches out for a KA barrel when they're released. They also mentioned producing barrel's that were made for the short gas system. Might want to check with them and see what options were available, then decide if it's better to buy a new barrel as a drop in part or have yours machined to move the block back. The only simple thing I could think to do would be to enlarge the gas ports slightly and try a lighter front spring, polish all the friction parts and add one of Jack's lighter trigger springs. A choke might up the pressure some.There have also been a few posts about the KA puck helping under-gassed guns, I don't understand it, but there seems to be something to it from what's been posted. Yours might be way under-gassed at this point, but a combination of some simple drop-ins might get it to cycle. Seems like the best bet has always been the short gas system, but it might involve some wait time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilitaryWeapons 0 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 If it didn't have a SBS stamp now I'd wait and get a full length barrel from someone that switches out for a KA barrel when they're released. They also mentioned producing barrel's that were made for the short gas system. Might want to check with them and see what options were available, then decide if it's better to buy a new barrel as a drop in part or have yours machined to move the block back. The only simple thing I could think to do would be to enlarge the gas ports slightly and try a lighter front spring, polish all the friction parts and add one of Jack's lighter trigger springs. A choke might up the pressure some.There have also been a few posts about the KA puck helping under-gassed guns, I don't understand it, but there seems to be something to it from what's been posted. Yours might be way under-gassed at this point, but a combination of some simple drop-ins might get it to cycle. Seems like the best bet has always been the short gas system, but it might involve some wait time. 6500 Thanks for the info. I am concerned about messing with the gun too much and destroying the value of the 12C. That is kind of why I am leaning towards the replacement barrel. I don't mind the wait as I have other converted 12's to shoot. I just want to make the best decision for the collectability of the 12C. (if that makes sense) I think it would be really cool to have a functioning SBS but it seems like bubba peeps cut this way too short..... Asthetically it looks wierd with that short of a barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dannyfantasy2000 68 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 A 1911 spring might help. Maybe a Gunfixer plug on setting 3 too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) If it didn't have a SBS stamp now . . . If it didn't have a SBS stamp now, it would be illegal and, I believe/think, need to be handed over to the ATF . . . And yes, the guy who did this should get a swift kick in the nuts . . . Assuming it was a guy . . . Edited April 4, 2009 by Raoul_Duke Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 "If i didn't have a SBS stamp now" as I know it does or he wouldn't be posting this, but since it does, it may have already degraded the value some and if if it's replaced with a factory Saiga barrel the stamping would give away the fact that it's been molested at some point ( ; Nothing to do with it never being stamped before cut, but I see how the term could look bad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilitaryWeapons 0 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 The stamp is good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Raoul_Duke 113 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 . . . if it's replaced with a factory Saiga barrel the stamping would give away . . . Oh, you mean stamp/engraving on the gun itself. When you said "have a SBS stamp", I thought you meant the tax stamp that goes on the Form 4 . . . My mistake . . . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Is this something you guys can do??? I think I would like to convert it back to the minimum non-SBS length with a shark brake. What are your thoughts. And what do you think something like that would cost (roughly). It's not a job that can be considered by Tromix now due to previous commitments. I'm sure either Will at Red Jacket or Jim at Rifle Dynamics could handle the job. I agree that since it's an original 12C the best option is rebarrel. Have you considered trading it for an SBS already made, or for an unconverted gun, or even a converted one? Because your gun will never cycle as it is, and it should be restored correctly due to it's scarcity value. I recommend you make an inquiry for trades or offers on this gun and see what you come up with. How much did you pay for it, including the stamp? If you don't want to make it public, send me a PM. I'll try to help you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 I'm not going to get into any kind of pissing contest on here................but if you would like to get it straightened out, give me a PM.........................Tom Cole, CGW, RAAC Warranty Service Provider......... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Post a WTB for a S-12 barrel. There is also a company that will be offering US made barrels. Also +1 to VanKiller Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Having dealt with Vankiller, I can wholeheartedly recommend them. I've considered having my Saiga converted to a SBS ready setup with the shorter gas system, but with the barrel kept long (until MI either allows SBS or I move). I understand they're considering expanding the allowable Class 3 things here. Right now, I think there's just full auto allowed. No suppressors and no short barrels. I may be mistaken though. I'm just going by what a local Class 3 guy told me. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MilitaryWeapons 0 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 You guys are great! Thanks for all of the input and help. VanKiller...... PM on the way.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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