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killoblivion

SBS Saiga 12 Question

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I was wondering if there was anyone who has cut a SBS Saiga 12 barrel down to even with the full length gas system. Would there still be enough pressure to cycle the gas system? If there is a picture of one out there I would like to see it.

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+1 for a Bolt-Action S-12.

 

Back in the earlier days of the Saiga 12, I remember seeing them fairly often. Guys would happily saw off their barrels and post pics.

 

The braver ones would come back later and admit their gun wouldn't run. The less brave ones simply faded away.

 

We really need a sticky for Tony's (and to a lesser extent, my) posts about building shorties, it would save a lot of time and grief.

Edited by BobAsh

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Ditto!!! I purchased a SBS saiga 12c without first test firing it and it will not run. I have no idea what to do........ Any ideas? fish_on@verizon.net

 

Unscrupulous seller, IMO.

 

Post a pic and I'll give you an opinion. But if the barrel is cut off even with the gas block, it's going to be a bitch. It's a lot more work to shorten them once it's already been cut.

Edited by BobAsh

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There are 3 options, really.

 

1) Have the gas block moved back. Most expensive option with the best result.

2) Replace the barrel and start from scratch. ugh.

3) Open the gas ports and see if it will cycle on heavy loads. If the barrel is around 11", it could work. As long as you don't mind shooting only high power loads.

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What a shame...

 

Bobash, you and tony would know.

 

If I port my barrel at say 12 or 13", does that in essence give me like a 15" gun because the pressure begins to bleed off early but not to the point of Total, bleeding? Or does it in essence give me a 12 or 13" gun?

 

I have GunFixer's Gas plug and mine will cycle the light stuff just BARELY on setting one, and on setting 3 it throws em good. I figure if i lose a bit of gas it won't matter much if i can use the 3rd gas setting.

 

Thoughts?

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Now that just pisses me off. Whoever chopped this Saiga 12C should be hunted down and thrown into a live volcano. That $h!thead took an actual Izhmash factory Saiga 12C, not some conversion of a regular Saiga 12, but an actual Saiga 12C which are the rarest of the rare Saiga 12s here in the U.S., and just completely screws it up with their bubba-fied gunsmithing barrel chop job. What's worse is that not only did the idiot obviously not have any clue about how Saiga 12s function, but they didn't have any common sense either. An authentic factory original Saiga 12C would sell for more in its original form than it would have as an SBS, even if the conversion to SBS had been done right.

Edited by Frogfoot

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If I port my barrel at say 12 or 13", does that in essence give me like a 15" gun because the pressure begins to bleed off early but not to the point of Total, bleeding? Or does it in essence give me a 12 or 13" gun?

 

Not exactly, but the porting will lose gas for sure. Tony's (ported) competition gun had the short gas system. I'm sure Alex can give you some guidance on this; it's his midbrake, right?

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Yah but i don't want to set the gasblock back if i dont need to. I guess I'll just run tests on it. If it works perfectly before I port, then afterwards, has FTE's, i'll know i need more gas!

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There are 3 options, really.

 

1) Have the gas block moved back. Most expensive option with the best result.

2) Replace the barrel and start from scratch. ugh.

3) Open the gas ports and see if it will cycle on heavy loads. If the barrel is around 11", it could work. As long as you don't mind shooting only high power loads.

 

BobAsh

Is this something you guys can do??? I think I would like to convert it back to the minimum non-SBS length with a shark brake. What are your thoughts. And what do you think something like that would cost (roughly).

 

I also find it hard to believe some one would bubba the 12C. I grabbed it because I knew there are not that many out there even though it was bubbafied..... I hope I can get it working and enjoy it.....

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If it didn't have a SBS stamp now I'd wait and get a full length barrel from someone that switches out for a KA barrel when they're released. They also mentioned producing barrel's that were made for the short gas system. Might want to check with them and see what options were available, then decide if it's better to buy a new barrel as a drop in part or have yours machined to move the block back.

 

The only simple thing I could think to do would be to enlarge the gas ports slightly and try a lighter front spring, polish all the friction parts and add one of Jack's lighter trigger springs. A choke might up the pressure some.There have also been a few posts about the KA puck helping under-gassed guns, I don't understand it, but there seems to be something to it from what's been posted. Yours might be way under-gassed at this point, but a combination of some simple drop-ins might get it to cycle. Seems like the best bet has always been the short gas system, but it might involve some wait time.

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If it didn't have a SBS stamp now I'd wait and get a full length barrel from someone that switches out for a KA barrel when they're released. They also mentioned producing barrel's that were made for the short gas system. Might want to check with them and see what options were available, then decide if it's better to buy a new barrel as a drop in part or have yours machined to move the block back.

 

The only simple thing I could think to do would be to enlarge the gas ports slightly and try a lighter front spring, polish all the friction parts and add one of Jack's lighter trigger springs. A choke might up the pressure some.There have also been a few posts about the KA puck helping under-gassed guns, I don't understand it, but there seems to be something to it from what's been posted. Yours might be way under-gassed at this point, but a combination of some simple drop-ins might get it to cycle. Seems like the best bet has always been the short gas system, but it might involve some wait time.

 

6500

Thanks for the info. I am concerned about messing with the gun too much and destroying the value of the 12C. That is kind of why I am leaning towards the replacement barrel. I don't mind the wait as I have other converted 12's to shoot. I just want to make the best decision for the collectability of the 12C. (if that makes sense) I think it would be really cool to have a functioning SBS but it seems like bubba peeps cut this way too short..... Asthetically it looks wierd with that short of a barrel.

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If it didn't have a SBS stamp now . . .

 

If it didn't have a SBS stamp now, it would be illegal and, I believe/think, need to be handed over to the ATF . . .

 

And yes, the guy who did this should get a swift kick in the nuts . . . Assuming it was a guy . . .

Edited by Raoul_Duke

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"If i didn't have a SBS stamp now" as I know it does or he wouldn't be posting this, but since it does, it may have already degraded the value some and if if it's replaced with a factory Saiga barrel the stamping would give away the fact that it's been molested at some point ( ; Nothing to do with it never being stamped before cut, but I see how the term could look bad.

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. . . if it's replaced with a factory Saiga barrel the stamping would give away . . .

 

Oh, you mean stamp/engraving on the gun itself. When you said "have a SBS stamp", I thought you meant the tax stamp that goes on the Form 4 . . . My mistake . . .

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Is this something you guys can do??? I think I would like to convert it back to the minimum non-SBS length with a shark brake. What are your thoughts. And what do you think something like that would cost (roughly).

 

It's not a job that can be considered by Tromix now due to previous commitments. I'm sure either Will at Red Jacket or Jim at Rifle Dynamics could handle the job.

 

I agree that since it's an original 12C the best option is rebarrel. Have you considered trading it for an SBS already made, or for an unconverted gun, or even a converted one? Because your gun will never cycle as it is, and it should be restored correctly due to it's scarcity value.

 

I recommend you make an inquiry for trades or offers on this gun and see what you come up with.

 

How much did you pay for it, including the stamp? If you don't want to make it public, send me a PM. I'll try to help you.

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I'm not going to get into any kind of pissing contest on here................but if you would like to get it straightened out, give me a PM.........................Tom Cole, CGW, RAAC Warranty Service Provider.........

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Post a WTB for a S-12 barrel.

 

There is also a company that will be offering US made barrels.

 

Also +1 to VanKiller

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Having dealt with Vankiller, I can wholeheartedly recommend them.

 

I've considered having my Saiga converted to a SBS ready setup with the shorter gas system, but with the barrel kept long (until MI either allows SBS or I move). I understand they're considering expanding the allowable Class 3 things here. Right now, I think there's just full auto allowed. No suppressors and no short barrels. I may be mistaken though. I'm just going by what a local Class 3 guy told me.

 

Corbin

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