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I'll agree, nicely done..........but I would be concerned with the 4 gas ports at .090. This will violate the warranty as the factory approved fix is a max of 3 ports at .090 . Usually the guns require two at .080 and one at .090...........over porting can lead to problems. The easiest way to check for too much gas is to fire a normal 2 3/4 field load on setting one. If the weapon cycles it is getting too much gas thru the system. Too much gas will cause damage to the internals and undue wear on the weapon. There have been a lot of combinations show up in the factory ports.........from 4 at .073 thru 2 at .80 and a whole bunch of others due to tool wear.............remember this is a gas operated firearm.....and can be tuned to specific purposes. But too much gas and magnum loads are not going to be a good combination................... :smoke: ........approved warranty service is provided thru RAAC for the Saiga guns at no charge....(shameless plug for CGW).........

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  • 2 weeks later...

I guess you didnt even read the article Bee man. Its a hell of a lot more than just fixing the gas ports. Cadiz is not going to do all the things I did, especially the hot rebluing and tig welding. Part of the fun here is to do the work yourself, but I understand if you dont have the tools or know how.

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I guess you didnt even read the article Bee man. Its a hell of a lot more than just fixing the gas ports. Cadiz is not going to do all the things I did, especially the hot rebluing and tig welding. Part of the fun here is to do the work yourself, but I understand if you dont have the tools or know how.

 

 

Well done.

Instead of welding the exhaust port in the gas block it can be tapped and plugged as for those that might want to undo what they did.

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  • 1 year later...

The full updated version of my article with photos can be found here:http://earthseaphoto.com/SagaofMySaiga.htm

 

Thanks to those who helped me update this the last time I posted it. I wanted to put a text version here vs the cut and paste of a link. I just dont have time to upload the photos here since there are so many, so visit my site above for pics.

 

The Saga of My Saiga 12- Turning a "Vodka Special" Into Something That Works Every time

 

Intro:

 

A Saiga 12 is a very different shotgun than most of those on the market. What makes it unique is that it's an AK variant that accepts detachable magazines and drums. With some basic modifications to bring it out of sporting configuration and into a pistol grip 922r compliant gun, it looks just like an AK 12 gauge. This is what makes it great, but I don't recommend it to someone who expects instant reliability or wants to take it out of the box and shoot Winchester 8 shot from Wal-Mart. Out of the box these guns need high power slugs to run best, which is expensive to shoot. 8 shot will not fire out of these guns reliably without several modifications.

 

 

 

With my very first Saiga 12, I was one of the unlucky ones. I opened the box to find what looked to be a rugged 12 gauge. I soon discovered I had a finicky gun which commonly failed to load and eject spent slug rounds. This happened even when using expensive and high quality ammo no matter which gas setting I used. I was baffled by the performance considering the very simple and reliable Kalashnikov AK design. This got me to read all the posts on the Saiga 12 forum to see what others were experiencing. I found the term "Vodka Special" on one of these posts, and soon realized I had bought one.

 

 

 

When people call the Saiga 12 a "Vodka Special", what they are really describing is a general failure to operate as expected. The most common complaints are failure to load new rounds or failure to eject spent rounds. What we have to face entering into the hobby is that guns like these from Russia are run in batches and may have slightly different tolerances and variations in manufacturing with every batch year made. In some cases, you need to run Russian slug ammo like Wolf for a while to break the gun in before it becomes reliable. In other cases it is a downright defective product out of the box (the dreaded "Vodka Special") that requires a lot of work to correct.

 

 

 

I knew what I was getting into when I bought one, and had access to a full machine shop and expert gun smith to fix anything that was not working, which in the end made this a pleasant and educational experience. My gunsmith's hard work along with suggestions from the Saiga 12 forums online helped to make this article possible.

 

 

 

Getting Started- Dismantling and Understanding Different Runs of Guns:

 

Dismantling begins with the extraction of the two trigger group pins by removing the bobby pin that holds them in and tapping them out with a screwdriver or blunt tipped tool. Two of the pins near the rear of the gun are crimped in and need to be drilled out first before you can hammer them out. The trigger group hammer is mounted to a rigid wire and will need to be turned sideways to get it out of the gun chassis. The safety latch rotates and comes out easily while the fire control group will fall out when turned upside down with the retaining pins removed.

 

 

 

To remove the existing trigger guard, we used a Dremmel tool to expose and wear down the three rivets that hold the guard to the frame of the shotgun. With pliers, we pried off the trigger guard. Here is the pile of parts I ended up with along with my new Tromix fire control group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you breakdown two of these guns from different manufacturing runs, you will potentially see several differences. We worked on a 2001 21-inch import and 2008 19-inch version for this conversion.

 

 

 

Common variations we found between the two included:

 

* Number of gas ports drilled into the barrel that feed the gas system

* Angle/roughness of the feed lip that loads the shell into the chamber

* Roughness of the ejector and bolt

* The height of the ejector ramp

* The looseness of the gas system housing

* Movement forward of the factory forend after shooting

* The consistency of the painted on black coating

 

 

 

Fixing Failures to Feed:

 

For failures to feed, I found it is commonly user error, like filling a magazine to full capacity creating high spring pressure which prevents proper feeding. I have a 20-round, a 13-round and 10-round magazine and they tend to operate best when 90% full. In addition to running each magazine light, the feed lip of the Saiga 12 is often rough or angled in a direction that impedes feeding.

 

 

 

One of the first things we did was to polish the angle of the feed lip down towards the magazine a bit to help smooth loading.

 

 

 

We also ground the lower parts of the bolt and the bolt carrier to a nice polish which has smoothed all the rough surfaces responsible for loading and ejecting. I circled the areas we ground down in red.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

For aesthetics, we bead blasted the entire bolt assembly to bare steel since firing tends to rub off some of the surface coatings and bare steel looks quite nice against our jet black hot re-blued surface. After this treatment, we noticed no failures to feed even when we loaded our magazines full.

 

 

 

 

 

Failures to Eject:

 

This issue is one of the most common complaints of Saiga 12 users, and has several potential causes. Polishing the bolt and bolt carrier helps a lot for guns with the proper number of exposed gas ports (3 or 4). If you have a "Vodka Special", your gun will have less than three gas ports or improper gas block alignment over the holes in the barrel. When we popped off the gas block and looked at the barrel of the 2008 and the 2001 versions of the rifle, the 2001 had three holes and the 2008 had two holes.

 

 

 

The amount of gas getting into the gas system has a direct impact on what the Saiga can shoot on gas setting 2. Gas setting number 1 mostly blocks the ports and is ideal for use with slugs that have enough energy in them to cycle the bolt without help of gas feeding from the barrel ports. In gas setting number 2, it's critical that enough energy is getting directed out of the barrel into the gas system to cycle low power 8-shot as an example. Two holes do not seem to be enough to support shooting 8-shot in gas setting number 2. Before we added the two extra gas ports to my 19-inch Saiga, I was only able to shoot slugs somewhat consistently using gas setting number 2, and I got intermittent failures to feed. I never had success with slugs consistently ejecting on setting 1 prior to polishing my bolt assembly.

 

 

 

Removing the Gas Block:

 

I have seen articles claiming people were able to remove the gas block with shelf mounts and a hammer.

This would not work on either of the Saiga's we worked on as the gas block was pressed on tight.. We used three steel bolts and a 20-ton press to remove the gas block to expose the existing ports.

 

 

 

 

 

The gas system chamber tends to rattle and fit loose on many Saiga 12's when the rear cover is removed. This goes away mostly when the rear protective cover is in place. This looseness does not seem to impact gas pressure or the cycling of ammo as long as the gas block is forward enough to hold the chamber on and that the gas ports are all exposed in the hole in the gas block. I left the looseness on mine alone in this process.

 

 

 

The next step was to drill the existing two gas ports out a bit to .090 and add two more to make a 4-port gun. This is the most important step to creating enough gas pressure to cycle 8-shot on ammo in setting number two more reliably.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In some "Vodka Specials" discussions they have three or four holes already but some of the holes are covered by the gas block which prevents the energy reaching the bolt. If you find three or more holes, port them out to .090. If you have gas block alignment issues, port your existing holes, drill out the hole in the gas block so it directs the gas pressure into the gas system, then align the gas block properly so you don't cover any of the holes when pressing it back on.

 

 

 

Porting and creating additional holes will potentially allow some wadding to enter the gas system which does not impact reliability for the most part. As a general rule, keep the gas system and these vent ports clean after each use to ensure best performance.

 

 

 

One thing I did not see anywhere on the Saiga forum is awareness of the small gas vent hole on the gas block hidden by the foreend on the left side (barrel facing left). If you remove the plastic factory foreend and replace it with another, you may notice that you lose reliability on ejects, like a complete loss of pressure when you eject. This is caused by a lack of back pressure provided by the close proximity of the factory foreend to the gas venting port. To ensure full energy entering my gas system, we TIG welded this hole on the side of the gas block shut. This ensures all the energy can be used to cycle the bolt especially with light 8-shot.

 

 

 

 

 

Finally, if you want to ensure ejects that fly high, you can TIG weld in some additional material to the ejector ramp and polish it out until its smooth. It's a lot of work and may not be needed, but if you have ejection issues not resolved by the other suggestions you may need to try that.

 

 

 

Shooting 7-1/2 and 8-Shot Ammo

 

Firing 8-shot like Wal-Mart Winchester and Federal may require one additional step to bring the gun to flawless performance with failures to eject. It was only with cheap 8-shot that we noticed this added step being necessary and it was inconsistent amongst the two versions we were working with. If you suffer from failures to eject using 8-shot, swap the front spring for a light tension one such as 4-6 lb. 1911 45-caliber spring. It will help reduce the spring tension which may be too heavy for a light load like 8-shot and force the slide forward too eject properly. The inconvenient thing is you will need to change back to the factory spring if you shoot buck or slugs.

 

 

 

Federal ammo worked a lot better than Winchester on my converted Saiga 12, so I suggest that as it's the same price as the Winchester and it works better. Wolf, Winchester, and Remington slugs all seem to work well.

 

 

 

922R Compliance:

 

 

 

I am not a lawyer so please note this is my best understanding of what I have read and an attempt to simplify the explanation of 922r. It's up to you to make sure your rig is legal and I won't be held accountable if this information changes or is not accurate.

 

 

 

Out of the box, the Saiga 12 counts as fourteen foreign parts total on the 19-inch version if you include the factory 5-round Russian magazine. As soon as you add an extended magazine and pistol grip or folding stock, you are no longer compliant with 922 R's sporting configuration rule. Its two parts that bring you out of sporting configuration, so a magazine alone won't do it, but a magazine and a pistol grip will, or a magazine and a butt stock. It doesn't matter if you add 100 U.S. made parts to the gun, it's only the total number of foreign parts that matters. No more than ten foreign parts are allowed on a non-sporting configuration on a gun of this sort.

 

 

 

You will find that the Saiga 12 has the potential to easily move the trigger group forward so it matches the alignment of its AK cousin, and gives you the ability to add a pistol grip in the location the factory trigger is mounted without any added drilling. Changing the trigger group and butt stock to U.S. made is an easy way to get four total U.S. parts, and with any domestic or foreign magazine you will be compliant. I agree with many other forum posters that you should not rely on your magazine to get you to ten or less foreign parts. You never know if you will have that magazine in the gun at the time of an inspection.

 

 

 

Moving the Trigger Group Forward to the Original AK Configuration:

 

I ordered the Tromix trigger group replacement which is a Tapco G2 trigger group with the hammer ground down to work right out of the bag on your Saiga 12. It is re-blued after they work their magic, so it looks factory new. I also got the squared off Tromix trigger guard. We liked how it was 100% steel for our hot re-bluing and has a pistol grip mount built in. We TIG welded the guard screws in place to prevent any need to tighten it in the future. It saved an hour using this kit versus trying to make the old trigger guard work, plus it has a unique squared off look to it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The toughest part of the trigger group conversion is drilling out the rear trigger group pins, TIG welding the old trigger group holes shut, and reinstalling the bolt hold open spring. The hold open spring likes to jump out into your eye when you slip during install, so be sure to wear eye protection. Use a twist tie and thread it through the well the lock back button fits out of to hold the spring in place if you don't have luck with the pliers. I don't like the Tromix bobby pin as it's hard to install so I used two simple wire clips to lock the new trigger group pins in place. This worked like a charm and saved twenty minutes of fiddling around.

 

 

 

The new trigger group did have a bit of slap to it when rapid firing slugs, but grinding down the hammer catch by a few millimeters seemed to help with that. Overall, I am very pleased with the ease of the Tromix trigger guard and group install, and would recommend it as one of the best third party Saiga parts on the market.

 

 

 

Finishing Touches:

 

 

 

I like the Ace skeleton folding stock much better than the factory plastic butt stock. Before I had access to a machine shop, I tried a receiver block that stuck out of the back of the gun and added about 1.5 inches of extra length as a result. It was great for a no-tool pistol grip and folding stock conversion with no tang modification, but once we got the trigger group moved forward, it was an eyesore and added more length than it was worth. I decided to cut off my rear tang and weld a steel plate to the back of the receiver to create a flat surface to mount my folder to once we tapped it out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not regret this decision as the end result is a solid surface for me to mount any type of butt stock I like to the folder mechanism. It's a commitment to cut off the tangs and close off the end as once it's done, you can't easily go back to the factory configuration or use stocks with an internal receiver type mount.

 

 

 

 

 

Hot Re-bluing:

 

 

 

I had never seen a Saiga 12 hot re-blued, and the conversion left several areas where we had welded and rubbed off the finish. We decided to take our two Saigas and hot re-blue them using Brownell's Oxygenate #7. It was perhaps the most toxic of the things we had to do to get our guns back to that factory perfect look, but it was one of the best things we did in this process for the aesthetics of the final product. I disliked the painted on finish I got out of the box. It was drippy in parts and rubbed off pretty easily in normal usage. Hot re-bluing chemically reacts with bare steel to produce a perfect jet black factory looking finish similar to the way the outside metal of a Glock looks new out of the box. It's not indestructible, but coats very constantly and leaves a great looking black surface.

 

 

 

The process begins with polishing out any welds and surface imperfections left after our work above.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is followed by a soaking for an hour in lacquer thinner to remove carbons. Finally we soaked in a degreaser like Purple Zep to get the steel free of oil for another hour. I used a toothbrush to get into the cracks and a bigger brush to scrub the outsides.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bead blasting the finish off is the next step. Removing the existing finish was difficult on the 2001 import as it was really baked on. The 2008 was easier. We used a bead blasting booth and aluminum oxide sand to remove the finish. Hindsight suggests it would be best to soak the parts in paint thinner first to remove as much of the finish as possible with chemicals to make the bead blasting go faster.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The last degreasing step is boiling Brownell's Dicron Clean mixed with water to about 180-200 degrees Fahrenheit. This removed any residue in the rivets to ensure you get a consistent finish with the re-bluing salts. We boiled our bare steel parts for about 40 minutes.

 

 

 

Don't delay in getting items from the bead blaster to the Dicron solution, then immediately into the bluing solution after a quick fresh water rinse. You don't have much time before rust begins to appear. If you see rust, bead blast again and get back into the Dicron bath.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Once you are done with the Dicron bath, cold water should be set up with a running hose in the container to float off any oil in the waste water. A good scrubbing with brushes underwater in the bucket is crucial at this point. Exposing them to air can lead to rust formation, but note that you can't just leave them underwater as they will rust that way too. As soon as possible after scrubbing get them into the bluing solution.

 

 

 

It's best to wear a full body suit for this procedure as the vapor tends to cling to moisture on any exposed skin and causes a light chemical burn. A full face guard and respirator is a must as well.

 

 

 

The Brownell's Oxygenate #7 bluing solution is a hot caldron of hell. It is basically a mix of water, lye and sodium nitrate. The salts help raise the boiling temperature of the solution to 250 degrees. You have to keep the solution around 292 degrees during the bluing process. Any higher and it causes red coloration on the metal; any lower and it may not blacken the metal as deeply. We soaked our bare steel in the solution for 40 minutes and kept the solution at 285-295 degrees by adding water. Spooning water close to the surface while you sweep across the length of the tank minimizes the mixture spitting onto your clothes and skin. We used steel wire to suspend our guns in the solution, but threw component parts right in or used a basket for smaller items.

 

 

 

It's critical that you do not contaminate the solution with non-ferrous metals. Aluminum cannot be part of any components or tools that contact the solution or you will ruin the mixture.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A final bath in cold water, followed by a boiling in plain water for 30 minutes to remove any imbedded salts are the last steps of re-bluing. We finished by painting down in water displacing oil to drive away moisture. The result of hot re-bluing was a perfect jet black surface. They seemed to absorb some of the oil as they cured overnight.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now here are the guns finished and fully assembled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that all is said and done with my modifications and conversions, this is my favorite shotgun, not to mention my favorite gun all around. I hope the content of this article helps others to simplify what's necessary to get their gun running consistently, and to outline everything that is necessary to make a "Vodka Special" work every time. We did everything to these guns that we have read in the forums, as well as some unique things I had not seen anywhere to create the final product. Good luck as you explore ways to make your Saiga 12 better. Make sure to share them in the forums so your peers can save time and effort!

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In your picture modifying the feed lip are you grinding or polishing the lip. It seems that there are threes steps associated with the feed lip. Should I ground the the three steps down so they are smooth?

 

On the bolt you state that you ground down the area circled in red. How did you determine the amount of grinding that you did on the bolt?

 

Thanks

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E for effort but there's some bad advice in that article, I'm sorry....

 

I was thinking.... I.... errr..... ummmm..... well.... uhhh..... hell..... I don't know what to say. Ummm.... OK? I think?

 

I'm glad you said it. Took the words right out of my mouth.

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One thing I did not see anywhere on the Saiga forum is awareness of the small gas vent hole on the gas block hidden by the foreend on the left side (barrel facing left). If you remove the plastic factory foreend and replace it with another, you may notice that you lose reliability on ejects, like a complete loss of pressure when you eject. This is caused by a lack of back pressure provided by the close proximity of the factory foreend to the gas venting port. To ensure full energy entering my gas system, we TIG welded this hole on the side of the gas block shut. This ensures all the energy can be used to cycle the bolt especially with light 8-shot.

 

Typically what I've seen is when people replace their HG with certain aftermarket quad rails the top rail interrupts the harmonics of the barrel which can create FTE's. This has been proven by many reputable vendors here. I don't think that in removing the fore end you are going to need to T.I.G. weld it in order to re-create the "back pressure" from the stock fore end. Regarding the vent hole you T.I.G. welded I have a question. I assume that you realize this platform was designed to work with high powered, combat loads correct? So that vent hole would do what it's supposed to do and vent off excess pressure with these loads to help protect the weapon from internal damage specifically from the carrier slamming into the trunnion. So in an effort to help cycle the birdshot you plug this hole to aid in maximizing gas pressure in order to reliably cycle the birdshot/quail loads? Ok I understand the theory behind it, sort of if by blocking it would add pressure somehow. But now that you have over gassed this gun (0.90 is over gassed for 4 ports, it should be 5/64), don't have a gas fixer plug to help "regulate" (the term regulate is used loosely as the G.F. is NOT a regulator), and took away the guns only "self" ability to release excessive pressure that was designed and engineered into the weapon from shooting heavy combat loads in effort to extend the life of the weapon... have you seen any kind of damage to the rear trunnion by shooting high brass/magnum loads? How far do they spent shells eject? You didn't see anything on this forum in regards to the vent hole because it's there for a reason.

 

Finally, if you want to ensure ejects that fly high...

 

If your spent shells are flying high I would venture to say that your gun is terribly over gassed and will shorten the life of your S12 quite considerably.

 

Finally, if you want to ensure ejects that fly high, you can TIG weld in some additional material to the ejector ramp and polish it out until its smooth.

 

Cobra, LSA (Mike), Tony, Cadiz or any other S12 expert that I missed is there any validity to this? I've never heard of this before.

 

It was only with cheap 8-shot that we noticed this added step being necessary and it was inconsistent amongst the two versions we were working with. If you suffer from failures to eject using 8-shot, swap the front spring for a light tension one such as 4-6 lb. 1911 45-caliper spring. It will help reduce the spring tension which may be too heavy for a light load like 8-shot and force the slide forward too eject properly.

 

I'm curious to know with how the gun is over gassed, coupled with the vent hole you blocked and the huge amount of gas the stock plug setting 2 allows in have you noticed any trunnion damage with the lighter spring? Again how far and high are the spent shells flying?

 

I'm sorry if I don't make sense. It's 4am here.

Edited by ErikTaylor
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Finally, if you want to ensure ejects that fly high, you can TIG weld in some additional material to the ejector ramp and polish it out until its smooth.

 

Cobra, LSA (Mike), Tony, Cadiz or any other S12 expert that I missed is there any validity to this? I've never heard of this before.

 

 

 

Yes some people have been adding some weld to the ejector to get different results. Alliance Armament was the first I heard to do that a few years ago. Shouldn't be necessary IMO if the gun is working like it's supposed to be. It's not necessary to try and reinvent the wheel here with a bunch of welding. The gun was designed how it is for a reason. It was just designed to shoot heavier loads than we Americans are trying to make it feed off of. Smoothing out rough surfaces and as a last resort, adjusting the amount of gas pressure it's putting on the bolt carrier is really all it takes to make it run great, even on weaker ammo. It comes with an extra gas setting to make it possible to turn it up or down. The addition of newer US made gas regulators gives us more room to adjust this for a wider range of ammo. Welding closed holes that perform a function isn't the answer to not having sufficient gas flow or a smooth enough action....nor is adding more angle to the ejector IMO. Only reasons I would mess around with the ejector is to take off any burs that might be dragging on the bolt as it passes through the ejector notch, or maybe in a case where it wasn't done right to begin with and is ejecting spent hulls into the dust cover.

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Yes some people have been adding some weld to the ejector to get different results. Alliance Armament was the first I heard to do that a few years ago.

 

Ah enough said there my friend. That's a new one on me though. I could definitely see the importance of taking off the burrs to help but certainly not adding material to it.

 

As far as the quad rail issue: Contact Lone Star Arms because I'm trying to find a video on a make over he did to a members S12 and he specifically takes a few minutes in his video to talk about it. As far as the threads I was able to find here are a few:

 

One Thread

 

Here's a reference in my own thread (on page 2):

 

Second Thread

 

Contact Mike and I'm sure he'll be able to elaborate more on what I'm talking about.

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  • 7 months later...
One thing I did not see anywhere on the Saiga forum is awareness of the small gas vent hole on the gas block hidden by the foreend on the left side (barrel facing left). If you remove the plastic factory foreend and replace it with another, you may notice that you lose reliability on ejects, like a complete loss of pressure when you eject. This is caused by a lack of back pressure provided by the close proximity of the factory foreend to the gas venting port. To ensure full energy entering my gas system, we TIG welded this hole on the side of the gas block shut. This ensures all the energy can be used to cycle the bolt especially with light 8-shot.

 

Typically what I've seen is when people replace their HG with certain aftermarket quad rails the top rail interrupts the harmonics of the barrel which can create FTE's. This has been proven by many reputable vendors here. I don't think that in removing the fore end you are going to need to T.I.G. weld it in order to re-create the "back pressure" from the stock fore end. Regarding the vent hole you T.I.G. welded I have a question. I assume that you realize this platform was designed to work with high powered, combat loads correct? So that vent hole would do what it's supposed to do and vent off excess pressure with these loads to help protect the weapon from internal damage specifically from the carrier slamming into the trunnion. So in an effort to help cycle the birdshot you plug this hole to aid in maximizing gas pressure in order to reliably cycle the birdshot/quail loads? Ok I understand the theory behind it, sort of if by blocking it would add pressure somehow. But now that you have over gassed this gun (0.90 is over gassed for 4 ports, it should be 5/64), don't have a gas fixer plug to help "regulate" (the term regulate is used loosely as the G.F. is NOT a regulator), and took away the guns only "self" ability to release excessive pressure that was designed and engineered into the weapon from shooting heavy combat loads in effort to extend the life of the weapon... have you seen any kind of damage to the rear trunnion by shooting high brass/magnum loads? How far do they spent shells eject? You didn't see anything on this forum in regards to the vent hole because it's there for a reason.

 

Finally, if you want to ensure ejects that fly high...

 

If your spent shells are flying high I would venture to say that your gun is terribly over gassed and will shorten the life of your S12 quite considerably.

 

Finally, if you want to ensure ejects that fly high, you can TIG weld in some additional material to the ejector ramp and polish it out until its smooth.

 

Cobra, LSA (Mike), Tony, Cadiz or any other S12 expert that I missed is there any validity to this? I've never heard of this before.

 

It was only with cheap 8-shot that we noticed this added step being necessary and it was inconsistent amongst the two versions we were working with. If you suffer from failures to eject using 8-shot, swap the front spring for a light tension one such as 4-6 lb. 1911 45-caliper spring. It will help reduce the spring tension which may be too heavy for a light load like 8-shot and force the slide forward too eject properly.

 

I'm curious to know with how the gun is over gassed, coupled with the vent hole you blocked and the huge amount of gas the stock plug setting 2 allows in have you noticed any trunnion damage with the lighter spring? Again how far and high are the spent shells flying?

 

I'm sorry if I don't make sense. It's 4am here.

 

I just purchased a quad rail from cheaper than dirt. Does this mean I will have problems when installed?

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I just purchased a quad rail from cheaper than dirt. Does this mean I will have problems when installed?

The biggest issues with quads are the ones that have the top section clamped to the gas tube.

Many have good results with chaos quads.

The guns don't like stuff clamped to the gas tube & chaos don't.

The lack of the handguard blocking the exaust port & effecting cycling is a load of crap.

It's a blow-off port.

Many, including myself run AK foregrips & our guns shoot very well.

The exhaust port being uncovered is a non issue.

Many have good results with chaos quads.

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i have a chaos quad and haven't had any issues with it. The only issues I have heard of where rails clamped to the gas tube (like pauly explained) or sometimes after reassembly of the firearm, the gas block can be a little off-center to one side or the other causing your newly installed quad to rest up against the exhaust port.

 

I think of it this way...much like a car cylinder, an explosion (gas pressure from the fired round) happens in front of the puck/piston, that puck moves rearward at a very VERY fast rate to push the rod/carrier rearward.

The air behind the puck needs to get out or forced out of the incoming puck's way and fast...thats what that vent hole is for

 

So you can see why plugging that hole could be counter-productive to performance. Your making it harder for that air to get out of the puck's way when you remove its escape route.

 

Just my .02

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