Who has a Saiga20

[kmoore 3]

Finally figured out how to add a poll.

 

 

All,

 

First off, I'm totally dissing the .410, I know, I'm sorry. Not. Just not my thing. And I included a "neither". Seriously, you own neither? why are you in this thread? lolz

 

Also, just added two s20 only categories.

 

The S20 forum is pretty slow, so I'm going to post this here. One of the threads on the s20 forum got me thinking about just how well the s20 has sold here in the US. No matter what, if/when the 20ga drums are made, and if others would make 20ga stick mags, I think the S12's little brother could be very popular!

 

So, what say ye? Thoughts or experiences on the S20?

 

Me, I had one before I got the s12. I was cheap, and so I bought the s20 for 170 at the gunshow instead of coughing up $240 for the S12. I was starting 3 gunning ... must have been 6-7 years ago. Sold the s20 when I discovered that buckshot choices were limited in 20ga, and a few competition required 12ga guns.

 

Worst mistake I've made in my gun dealings. That S20 ate EVERYTHING. This long ago, all I had were 5 rounders for the S20, and that's all I got for the S12 ... Russian mags were rare and no one was making stuff here. One early competition, I ran across a target that had to be spun. I was worried becuase many of the 12ga shooters couldn't spin it, or were taking a lot of shots to do so (and I have 5 round mags). I spun that sucker in 3 rounds ... full choke made that shotgun hit HARD!

 

Now, I've purchased a S20. Not very reliable (yet). Quite frankly, I find the small mags to limit the fun. Russian 10 rounders are expensive, and I don't have mine working well yet.

Edited April 9, 2009 by kmoore

[kmoore 3]

Guess my posting-fu is weak .... I tried attaching a poll to this. I'll revisit when I can figure this out.

[6x6pinz 4]

I have all three and the S20 is the only one I have converted. I don't use the S20 for hunting and wanted to convert one to a folding stock w/ pistol grip. My S20 eats everything I put in it and yes a drum or larger cap magazines would be nice.

[ernestmayhand 10]

I listen to the ProArms podcast on my work commute and they had a great episode on home defense shotguns (besides the lack of knowledge on the Saigas of course but that's beside my point anyhow). They summed it all up basically saying that the 20 guage was the best kept secret in home defense shotguns. This is taking into account ballistics, penetration, and felt recoil. An argument agaisnt the Saiga 20 vs. a pump 20 could be capacity but hopefully not for long. I'm considering getting a S20, I rarely see them for sale though. I'd love to shot one to see for myself the difference in recoil. Heard between 12 & 20 it's about 50% so if were talking Saiga then damn that 20 must feel like nothin'. I'm sure my 12 will always be my favorite though just cause it's a 12

[sunnybean 939]

I purchased used S20 from a member here. He had done a lot of mods to get it running. I took it out on Sat. and only had two misfeeds in 100 rounds. Very happy. The only thing I really need to do is get a smaller front bead (factory one was missing and I put a big fat one on). I've maxed the adjustments for elevation out.

 

You're right, the lack of high cap mags/drum kinda kill it. I hope Surefire (or any reliable stick mag) AND MDA come out with some offerings soon.

[Wakal 10]

Back when I was running a USAS in competition, we built up a S20 for my wife (after I bought her a JP 1100...too heavy...and built her a light/short 1100...still too heavy...). Five Russian 10 round mags, two Texas 3-Gun Championship (Ladies) later, she still has it. However, she has been pestering me to build a mid-barrel brake for it or to build her a short gas/brake S12 (sigh). I have no idea why...that S20 shoots great!

 

I really like the recoil pulse in the S20, as it feels more snappy (like a rifle) instead of that weird push that a 12 does. Ah, well.

 

 

 

 

 

Alex

[kmoore 3]

I listen to the ProArms podcast on my work commute and they had a great episode on home defense shotguns (besides the lack of knowledge on the Saigas of course but that's beside my point anyhow). They summed it all up basically saying that the 20 guage was the best kept secret in home defense shotguns. This is taking into account ballistics, penetration, and felt recoil. An argument agaisnt the Saiga 20 vs. a pump 20 could be capacity but hopefully not for long. I'm considering getting a S20, I rarely see them for sale though. I'd love to shot one to see for myself the difference in recoil. Heard between 12 & 20 it's about 50% so if were talking Saiga then damn that 20 must feel like nothin'. I'm sure my 12 will always be my favorite though just cause it's a 12

 

My experience had been that a lot of 20's kick as hard as 12's, because they are often on lighter frames (real reason to carry a 20 on a hunt is lighter gun, IMO). In fact, in an apples to oranges comparison, I've got a BPS 20 that kicks HARDER than my Remmy 1187! Lighter gun + pump action (not gas) + lesser ergonomics .... doesn't matter how "whimpy" that 20ga was, it was all I could do to finish a 100 round sporting clays course!!!

 

So, when I got a S20 I thought it would kick about the same as a S12.... boy was I wrong. It was NOT the case. The 12 is a soft shooter, but that 20 is a real PUSSYCAT!

 

Only thing that would make me hesitate to designate it as HD in my house is: A. I use an AR (I know, heresy on this board/forum ). B. limited buckshot offerings.

 

But, if all my guns were lost in a boating accident except for my S20, which was stoked with #3 buckshot ..... I wouldn't recommend a B&E on my house!!!

[Tsm002 5]

I love my s20.

 

Mags aren't an issue. Have a few russian 8 rounders from Oleg's last shipment.

 

I certainly don't feel undergunned with it for HD- like the poster above me I do mainly use an AR for home defense though.

 

Why?

 

I've trained on the AR. A lot.

 

My ar offers the simple advantage of 30 projectiles in rapid succession with very little if any muzzle rise.

 

Overpenetration isn't really a concern for me since unlike a lot of America I do not live in a particle board house. Very solid brick & stone, very old school construction. Plus the .223 doesn't have as much penetration as people might believe.

 

BUT...

I do still keep the s20 as HD. The ar and the s20 are the only longarms in the house that aren't stored with the bolt removed and mags and ammo in a separate locked location.

 

My s20 recently had its crapco stock removed and is now back in unconverted state while I await conversion parts. I may not even convert it till after hurricane season. Why?

 

I live in one of the first evac points from Houston and after going through the spike in crime that we had after Ike, Rita and Katrina it's nice to have a longarm that can be set next to a lawn chair when "hurricane bs'ing" with the neighbors out on the front porch (those of you who live near Houston and have been through ike and Katrina know exactly what I'm talking about here) without arousing police ire. The cops didn't even turn a second glance last time when I had a mas 49 out. (I put the 49 in the same class as the unconverted saiga "pc" wise. has a mag sticking out but does have a straight stock)

They absolutely did with the ar out. Nothing bad happened, they just wanted to check it out. And frankly that's a waste of their time and mine.

So yeah, my s20 is my "sitting in the back of the bed of the truck with the neighbors huddled around a radio because no gas is available and the roads are blocked off during hurricane season" gun.

 

With #3 buckshot? Am not undergunned. At all.

 

I mean, for cryin' out loud...a lot of us carry a .380 or .38 on our CHL's everyday and while a 9 or a .45 might make a bigger whole I absolutely do not wantt o be shot with a .380.

 

Neither do I ever want to be shot with a 20 gauge buck or slug load.

 

I do notice that my s20 kicks VERY little. It actually reminds me of a fal, oddly enough. And that makes me warm and fuzzy inside. Because fals are teh awesome.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I've got all three and love all of em...in fact all six if you include the rifles. How do you you know the 410 ain't yo thang unless you have actually tried it? Mine was my first Saiga and it is a pretty impressive weapon, not just a kid's toy.

[Twinsen 86]

The .410 is a pretty fantastic weapon, I agree. I just use my 12ga with downloaded ammo if I want the 20ga experience.

[Demon5Romeo 0]

I have both a Saiga-12 and Saiga-410. I would like to get a Saiga-20 to round out the collection. I just wish there were some US made higher capacity magazines avaible for them like offered for the 12 and .410.

[Modiano 5]

maybe one day i'll pick up an S-12, but i'm happy with my S-20. i initially wanted an S-12 but when i was ready to buy, the US retail inventory had dried up in the summer of '08 and i found an S-20 for $330 (half what i would have had to pay for an S-12 on gunbroker). 20ga is no wimp, and i don't feel under powered with 2 3/4" #3buck. i've been on mississippi auto arms' waiting list for 10rd S-20 mags for a year...maybe one day they'll go into production. i was shocked to see hi cap 410 mags before 20ga

 

until that magical day when i find a reasonably priced S-12 AND i have some disposable income, i'll just have to make due with my 12ga 870 and O/U

 

ammo variety is a bit disappointing. #3buck is about as big as 2 3/4" factory loads go...which is suitable for home defense, but i'd like the option to go to #1buck or 0buck.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I have a S-12 and no S-20.

 

Now i will defend the 20 ga as a HD round, hunting, and sporting purposes round it serves all 3 purposes just fine.

 

I have a S-12 and if i get another saiga shotgun it will be another S-12.

 

The recoil does not bother me, In fact i enjoy shooting 3" more than 2 3/4" just for general fun. The ammo is cheap and plentiful, and i prefer to keep my weapons in similar calibers. For this reason if i got another Saiga shotgun, it would be another 12. If i get another saiga rifle it will probably be a .223 to go hand in hand with my AR.

[fxhart 14]

The S-20 is on my short list. I would really like to see >5 round mags for it and that's why it's in the #2 slot and not the #1. I personally have no desire for a .410.

[VWBeamer 1]

not rying to flame, but i see no purpose for .410 beside target shooting. It really doesn't have enough juice to kill anything larger than a rabbit.

If the .410 was measured in gauge size, it would b a 68 gauge IIRC. Think about that.

 

The 12 has the largst selection of ammo, and that's why i got it.

 

The 20 is tempting. 80% of the power, 50% of the recoil.

[Azrial 1,091]

If that is all you have or can afford there is nothing wrong with a 20 gauge, but they would never be my first choice in a defensive shotgun.

[Rustynuts 3]

I have all three, and really see no reason for the 20. The 410 is a pussycat to shoot and is fun for the whole family. The 20 kicks almost as much as the 12, so why bother? I'm in the process of converting the 410 and 20 (12 is mostly done) and will probably sell the 20 when done.

[slyguy 0]

I like 20ga over 12ga in general. Ammo is a bit cheaper, less recoil, better accuracy, still plenty of stopping power to spare, and gun/ammo is lighter if you had to carry a lot of it in SHTF. Police studies repeatedly show that officers shoot faster and more accurate in 20ga guns... I think that is a big reason for all the reduced recoil 12ga "law enforcement" rounds popping up from major ammo manufacturers in the last 10yrs (cheaper to buy new ammo than guns for all the cruisers and SWAT teams).

 

I bought Saiga 12 over 20 simply due to availability of mags and accessories. The main dealbreaker was that it's very hard to find hi cap or 2.75" mags for the S20, yet 3" rounds for 20ga defeat the whole purpose of cheaper and less recoil. I will definitely switch from S12 to S20, or just add a S20, if the S20 mags/accessories become more available before Obama admins try to ban Saiga type guns altogether.

Edited July 4, 2009 by slyguy

[TTR 1]

I have both and both are converted.