Leapers rail

[cvhanh20 1,052]

And BTW, my kid will only run Surefire flashlights. . .

They're good and thats a flashlight thats reliable enough that it got my nod when i was in the desert... expensive though arn't they?

 

isn't this getting right back into what i was saying...

 

the cheapie flashlight i bought was there just for the look, and the S-12 broke it in 1/2. if i had a led surefire i bet it would still be there and functional.

 

That's the ultimate point - if money is no object, buy "the best" of everything (whatever that may be) - but if you're on a budget, you're probably better off to be thrifty on your handguard than your weaponlight. Same goes with optics - I'd rather have a stock handguard on my AR and an Eotech or Aimpoint than a KAC rail and a BSA red-dot!!!!

 

I disagree, if you're on a budget, save up. Isn't that what being on a budget is all about? It took me about six months buying parts to finish my Saiga-12, I could have found the cheapest shit out there and finished it in 2 months, but I wanted quality, so I purchased one item at a time over a period. I'd rather have high-quality American made parts on my S12, so I save up and buy them. When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything. I don't own the Chaos handguards, but if I wanted a quad- or tri-rail guard, I'd be saving up for a bit to buy one of his.

 

I just don't really understand how people in the firearms community, people who are generally pro-American, drop all of their ethics in one second to save some money and buy foreign made stuff, when there are actually good American companies which sell better things. It actually totally fucking baffles me. Wave your flag, drive your Ford or Chevy truck and shop at fucking Walmart, where something like 90% of the items are from fucking China and the others are essentially cheaper versions made by the manufacturer to sell to the suckers who shop there; this is a common practice, if you haven't read about it. Buy American, unless you're going to save a few bucks, then fuck American Businesses, fuck American Entrepreneurs, fuck American Products, and especially FUCK American Workers! People cry about Mom & Pop Shops going out of business, yet they absolutely refuse to do anything about it, not only do they refuse, they actually drive down to Wally World, buy a Chinese hammer and some Chinese nails and help make sure the casket is permanently sealed!

 

Conservative Americans who buy foreign made shit is the greatest hypocrisy I can think of.

 

If you're into preserving that hypocrisy, buy whatever the fuck you want, next time you shop at Wally World, pick yourself up a nice Chinese manufactured American Flag (yes I've seen them) and a cheap lighter, drive home, raise it on your lawn and set it on fire!

 

 

WTF?

 

Sounds like you should buy a Remington 11-87, then - or maybe an 870. If you're on a budget, get a Mossberg. They're all fine - but they don't reload quite as fast as your RUSSIAN Saiga 12. Is your S12 a Tromix? Must be - they're "the best."

 

Do you know why Chrysler just went bankrupt? "Legacy" costs from the UAW and American workers. I don't know what you know about manufacturing, but I'm learning about it - I guess you could call me an "American Entrepreneur" - I've got a product I licensed to a US manufacturer that is used by our military. I've got another product that is a high volume medical consumable, and the only way to be competitive in the market is to have components made offshore. The US companies we got quotes from were looking to ass-rape us. Our unit cost discrepancy is making the difference between success and failure (the key component is made in Germany).

 

Back to Saiga 12's - "When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything" - Well, there are certain aspects of anything where "good enough" is fine. Have you ever heard "(the) Perfect is the enemy of (the) good?" It's a quote from Voltaire - the Russians used that philosophy in WWII to build a shitload of "good enough" T34's instead of Germany's much superior King Tigers, and they won.

 

I can afford to buy any forearm I want, now. I don't have to save up. The reason I'm in that position is because when faced with an opportunity to save money on various things in life, and take risks where warranted, I've done so. I don't have a Chaos rail, either. Perhaps I'll buy one and check it out. I've got SK tools in the cabinet in the garage - I've got a POS Harbor Freight Tools socket set in my "bug-out" seabag full of shit. It's good enough, I'll use it once, if ever.

 

Point is, that Leaper's rail looks like it's "good enough." Anything "above it" is servicing your vanity, or your "buy American" conscience. So be it. There's nothing wrong with that - nor is there anything wrong with saving $200 and buying a Surefire light and some F'in ammo.

Don't give me that crap, I had to go over seas shit! I am a American manufacture and was faced with the same dilemma you where. I spent three months researching to get the key US companies involved to lower the cost of my rails systems and keep the quality the same. Sure my profit is lower, but I still make money, we are at war! You should be ashamed of yourself exploiting cheap labor in other countries all awhile contributing to the lost of jobs in your country, rather than taking the time to network with companies right here in your own country that can and will meet most of your demands in cost and quality. I guess its a good thing that our forefathers didn't think the way you modern "American Entrepreneur" think. The fact is this kind of lazy ass fuck over your countrymen attitude blows me away. Truth is, this is just another example how easy people will roll over and go with the flow. Do you have kids? The only way to maintain a strong nation, is by having strong manufactures. We are at war! Our manufacturing committees are being attacked and your idea of help is to buy from the other guy! We all must cut corners, trim the fat, but this greedy attitude will destroy our country. As far as your comments about big business, Fuck big business, they're the reason we're facing this shit to start with. We can take back our power, our might, one purchase at a time. The people's buying power is the might, not who is in office, or what country can make it cheaper. If the people in this country would just wake up from their slumber and realize what the men and women of our country realized hundreds of year ago, that we the people are the force of power. We are at war!!!!! Which side will you chose?

[Codebrown 1]

And BTW, my kid will only run Surefire flashlights. . .

They're good and thats a flashlight thats reliable enough that it got my nod when i was in the desert... expensive though arn't they?

 

isn't this getting right back into what i was saying...

 

the cheapie flashlight i bought was there just for the look, and the S-12 broke it in 1/2. if i had a led surefire i bet it would still be there and functional.

 

That's the ultimate point - if money is no object, buy "the best" of everything (whatever that may be) - but if you're on a budget, you're probably better off to be thrifty on your handguard than your weaponlight. Same goes with optics - I'd rather have a stock handguard on my AR and an Eotech or Aimpoint than a KAC rail and a BSA red-dot!!!!

 

I disagree, if you're on a budget, save up. Isn't that what being on a budget is all about? It took me about six months buying parts to finish my Saiga-12, I could have found the cheapest shit out there and finished it in 2 months, but I wanted quality, so I purchased one item at a time over a period. I'd rather have high-quality American made parts on my S12, so I save up and buy them. When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything. I don't own the Chaos handguards, but if I wanted a quad- or tri-rail guard, I'd be saving up for a bit to buy one of his.

 

I just don't really understand how people in the firearms community, people who are generally pro-American, drop all of their ethics in one second to save some money and buy foreign made stuff, when there are actually good American companies which sell better things. It actually totally fucking baffles me. Wave your flag, drive your Ford or Chevy truck and shop at fucking Walmart, where something like 90% of the items are from fucking China and the others are essentially cheaper versions made by the manufacturer to sell to the suckers who shop there; this is a common practice, if you haven't read about it. Buy American, unless you're going to save a few bucks, then fuck American Businesses, fuck American Entrepreneurs, fuck American Products, and especially FUCK American Workers! People cry about Mom & Pop Shops going out of business, yet they absolutely refuse to do anything about it, not only do they refuse, they actually drive down to Wally World, buy a Chinese hammer and some Chinese nails and help make sure the casket is permanently sealed!

 

Conservative Americans who buy foreign made shit is the greatest hypocrisy I can think of.

 

If you're into preserving that hypocrisy, buy whatever the fuck you want, next time you shop at Wally World, pick yourself up a nice Chinese manufactured American Flag (yes I've seen them) and a cheap lighter, drive home, raise it on your lawn and set it on fire!

 

 

WTF?

 

Sounds like you should buy a Remington 11-87, then - or maybe an 870. If you're on a budget, get a Mossberg. They're all fine - but they don't reload quite as fast as your RUSSIAN Saiga 12. Is your S12 a Tromix? Must be - they're "the best."

 

Do you know why Chrysler just went bankrupt? "Legacy" costs from the UAW and American workers. I don't know what you know about manufacturing, but I'm learning about it - I guess you could call me an "American Entrepreneur" - I've got a product I licensed to a US manufacturer that is used by our military. I've got another product that is a high volume medical consumable, and the only way to be competitive in the market is to have components made offshore. The US companies we got quotes from were looking to ass-rape us. Our unit cost discrepancy is making the difference between success and failure (the key component is made in Germany).

 

Back to Saiga 12's - "When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything" - Well, there are certain aspects of anything where "good enough" is fine. Have you ever heard "(the) Perfect is the enemy of (the) good?" It's a quote from Voltaire - the Russians used that philosophy in WWII to build a shitload of "good enough" T34's instead of Germany's much superior King Tigers, and they won.

 

I can afford to buy any forearm I want, now. I don't have to save up. The reason I'm in that position is because when faced with an opportunity to save money on various things in life, and take risks where warranted, I've done so. I don't have a Chaos rail, either. Perhaps I'll buy one and check it out. I've got SK tools in the cabinet in the garage - I've got a POS Harbor Freight Tools socket set in my "bug-out" seabag full of shit. It's good enough, I'll use it once, if ever.

 

Point is, that Leaper's rail looks like it's "good enough." Anything "above it" is servicing your vanity, or your "buy American" conscience. So be it. There's nothing wrong with that - nor is there anything wrong with saving $200 and buying a Surefire light and some F'in ammo.

Don't give me that crap, I had to go over seas shit! I am a American manufacture and was faced with the same dilemma you where. I spent three months researching to get the key US companies involved to lower the cost of my rails systems and keep the quality the same. Sure my profit is lower, but I still make money, we are at war! You should be ashamed of yourself exploiting cheap labor in other countries all awhile contributing to the lost of jobs in your country, rather than taking the time to network with companies right here in your own country that can and will meet most of your demands in cost and quality. I guess its a good thing that our forefathers didn't think the way you modern "American Entrepreneur" think. The fact is this kind of lazy ass fuck over your countrymen attitude blows me away. Truth is, this is just another example how easy people will roll over and go with the flow. Do you have kids? The only way to maintain a strong nation, is by having strong manufactures. We are at war! Our manufacturing committees are being attacked and your idea of help is to buy from the other guy! We all must cut corners, trim the fat, but this greedy attitude will destroy our country. As far as your comments about big business, Fuck business, they're the reason we're facing this shit to start with. We can take back our power, our might, one purchase at a time. The people's buying power is the might, not who is in office, or what country can make it cheaper. If the people in this country would just wake up from their slumber and realize what the men and women of our country realized hundreds of year ago, that we the people are the force of power. We are at war!!!!! Which side will you chose?

 

I don't pretend to know how or why you make your business decisions, don't pretend to know how we've made ours. I realize we're at war, and I've got a product licensed to a US manufacturer and distributor that's sold seven figures worth to the military and counting. I've served in the military, and was able to bring back something that was found useful. Yes, I have kids, my oldest hopes to go to the Naval Academy and serve his country like his dad and uncle (a Special Forces "Soldier of the Year") did. I'm guessing he will.

 

I think our dilemmas were different. The product we're buying offshore components for has most of the key parts made and assembled here - but there are only a few manufacturers in the world that can do the volume we need one one of the main components, and the US based ones so far have been out to screw us. I can't and won't bore you with details - suffice it to say that the global market is up to 100 million units annually, current market players don't want us in their space (and have their components ALL made and assembled offshore), and if we're going to be able to exploit our innovation and get it to market and have a US company take over some of that space - TAKE IT BACK - we're going to have to have certain things made offshore. Or, I could just license my IP to a multinational company who will pay me and then kill it so they can maintain the status quo - they've offered. Fuck them.

 

I won't go so far as to say F you, because I see where you're coming from, and I'm guessing if you knew more about me you'd get my angle too.

 

I chimed in on this post not to dog your rail or products (as I said, after checking things out I'll probably buy some) - I actually have held the topic of the post, the Leaper's rail, in my hand and looked at it at the SHOT Show. I'm not sure if you were there, the only other person that I recall who says he's seen it - "Bvamp" - also thought it was "good enough" for what it is. Lots of other people chiming in on what a POS it is or isn't probably don't have a good basis for their opinion. I haven't posted here for years, I usually just read them - I had to make a new profile because I couldn't remember the old one. I should have just left it to the guys who have seen a picture of one, or who are saving up for six months to buy one of yours, I guess.

 

Clearly I stepped in the shit on the "US vs. Offshore" thing. I've put my money where my mouth is on the US made thing, and I won't be "ashamed of myself" for anything, nor do I have to defend anything - to you or anyone else. "Lazy ass?" You have no idea. Let's just leave it at that.

 

Anyway, I hope your hard work pays off - likewise I'm sure.

[cvhanh20 1,052]

And BTW, my kid will only run Surefire flashlights. . .

They're good and thats a flashlight thats reliable enough that it got my nod when i was in the desert... expensive though arn't they?

 

isn't this getting right back into what i was saying...

 

the cheapie flashlight i bought was there just for the look, and the S-12 broke it in 1/2. if i had a led surefire i bet it would still be there and functional.

 

That's the ultimate point - if money is no object, buy "the best" of everything (whatever that may be) - but if you're on a budget, you're probably better off to be thrifty on your handguard than your weaponlight. Same goes with optics - I'd rather have a stock handguard on my AR and an Eotech or Aimpoint than a KAC rail and a BSA red-dot!!!!

 

I disagree, if you're on a budget, save up. Isn't that what being on a budget is all about? It took me about six months buying parts to finish my Saiga-12, I could have found the cheapest shit out there and finished it in 2 months, but I wanted quality, so I purchased one item at a time over a period. I'd rather have high-quality American made parts on my S12, so I save up and buy them. When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything. I don't own the Chaos handguards, but if I wanted a quad- or tri-rail guard, I'd be saving up for a bit to buy one of his.

 

I just don't really understand how people in the firearms community, people who are generally pro-American, drop all of their ethics in one second to save some money and buy foreign made stuff, when there are actually good American companies which sell better things. It actually totally fucking baffles me. Wave your flag, drive your Ford or Chevy truck and shop at fucking Walmart, where something like 90% of the items are from fucking China and the others are essentially cheaper versions made by the manufacturer to sell to the suckers who shop there; this is a common practice, if you haven't read about it. Buy American, unless you're going to save a few bucks, then fuck American Businesses, fuck American Entrepreneurs, fuck American Products, and especially FUCK American Workers! People cry about Mom & Pop Shops going out of business, yet they absolutely refuse to do anything about it, not only do they refuse, they actually drive down to Wally World, buy a Chinese hammer and some Chinese nails and help make sure the casket is permanently sealed!

 

Conservative Americans who buy foreign made shit is the greatest hypocrisy I can think of.

 

If you're into preserving that hypocrisy, buy whatever the fuck you want, next time you shop at Wally World, pick yourself up a nice Chinese manufactured American Flag (yes I've seen them) and a cheap lighter, drive home, raise it on your lawn and set it on fire!

 

 

WTF?

 

Sounds like you should buy a Remington 11-87, then - or maybe an 870. If you're on a budget, get a Mossberg. They're all fine - but they don't reload quite as fast as your RUSSIAN Saiga 12. Is your S12 a Tromix? Must be - they're "the best."

 

Do you know why Chrysler just went bankrupt? "Legacy" costs from the UAW and American workers. I don't know what you know about manufacturing, but I'm learning about it - I guess you could call me an "American Entrepreneur" - I've got a product I licensed to a US manufacturer that is used by our military. I've got another product that is a high volume medical consumable, and the only way to be competitive in the market is to have components made offshore. The US companies we got quotes from were looking to ass-rape us. Our unit cost discrepancy is making the difference between success and failure (the key component is made in Germany).

 

Back to Saiga 12's - "When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything" - Well, there are certain aspects of anything where "good enough" is fine. Have you ever heard "(the) Perfect is the enemy of (the) good?" It's a quote from Voltaire - the Russians used that philosophy in WWII to build a shitload of "good enough" T34's instead of Germany's much superior King Tigers, and they won.

 

I can afford to buy any forearm I want, now. I don't have to save up. The reason I'm in that position is because when faced with an opportunity to save money on various things in life, and take risks where warranted, I've done so. I don't have a Chaos rail, either. Perhaps I'll buy one and check it out. I've got SK tools in the cabinet in the garage - I've got a POS Harbor Freight Tools socket set in my "bug-out" seabag full of shit. It's good enough, I'll use it once, if ever.

 

Point is, that Leaper's rail looks like it's "good enough." Anything "above it" is servicing your vanity, or your "buy American" conscience. So be it. There's nothing wrong with that - nor is there anything wrong with saving $200 and buying a Surefire light and some F'in ammo.

Don't give me that crap, I had to go over seas shit! I am a American manufacture and was faced with the same dilemma you where. I spent three months researching to get the key US companies involved to lower the cost of my rails systems and keep the quality the same. Sure my profit is lower, but I still make money, we are at war! You should be ashamed of yourself exploiting cheap labor in other countries all awhile contributing to the lost of jobs in your country, rather than taking the time to network with companies right here in your own country that can and will meet most of your demands in cost and quality. I guess its a good thing that our forefathers didn't think the way you modern "American Entrepreneur" think. The fact is this kind of lazy ass fuck over your countrymen attitude blows me away. Truth is, this is just another example how easy people will roll over and go with the flow. Do you have kids? The only way to maintain a strong nation, is by having strong manufactures. We are at war! Our manufacturing committees are being attacked and your idea of help is to buy from the other guy! We all must cut corners, trim the fat, but this greedy attitude will destroy our country. As far as your comments about big business, Fuck business, they're the reason we're facing this shit to start with. We can take back our power, our might, one purchase at a time. The people's buying power is the might, not who is in office, or what country can make it cheaper. If the people in this country would just wake up from their slumber and realize what the men and women of our country realized hundreds of year ago, that we the people are the force of power. We are at war!!!!! Which side will you chose?

 

I don't pretend to know how or why you make your business decisions, don't pretend to know how we've made ours. I realize we're at war, and I've got a product licensed to a US manufacturer and distributor that's sold seven figures worth to the military and counting. I've served in the military, and was able to bring back something that was found useful. Yes, I have kids, my oldest hopes to go to the Naval Academy and serve his country like his dad and uncle (a Special Forces "Soldier of the Year") did. I'm guessing he will.

 

I think our dilemmas were different. The product we're buying offshore components for has most of the key parts made and assembled here - but there are only a few manufacturers in the world that can do the volume we need one one of the main components, and the US based ones so far have been out to screw us. I can't and won't bore you with details - suffice it to say that the global market is up to 100 million units annually, current market players don't want us in their space (and have their components ALL made and assembled offshore), and if we're going to be able to exploit our innovation and get it to market and have a US company take over some of that space - TAKE IT BACK - we're going to have to have certain things made offshore. Or, I could just license my IP to a multinational company who will pay me and then kill it so they can maintain the status quo - they've offered. Fuck them.

 

I won't go so far as to say F you, because I see where you're coming from, and I'm guessing if you knew more about me you'd get my angle too.

 

I chimed in on this post not to dog your rail or products (as I said, after checking things out I'll probably buy some) - I actually have held the topic of the post, the Leaper's rail, in my hand and looked at it at the SHOT Show. I'm not sure if you were there, the only other person that I recall who says he's seen it - "Bvamp" - also thought it was "good enough" for what it is. Lots of other people chiming in on what a POS it is or isn't probably don't have a good basis for their opinion. I haven't posted here for years, I usually just read them - I had to make a new profile because I couldn't remember the old one. I should have just left it to the guys who have seen a picture of one, or who are saving up for six months to buy one of yours, I guess.

 

Clearly I stepped in the shit on the "US vs. Offshore" thing. I've put my money where my mouth is on the US made thing, and I won't be "ashamed of myself" for anything, nor do I have to defend anything - to you or anyone else. "Lazy ass?" You have no idea. Let's just leave it at that.

 

Anyway, I hope your hard work pays off - likewise I'm sure.

First off I'm not impressed with big numbers, but it proves my point that much more. However there are components that countries like Germany specialize in, things that other countries would be hard pressed to manufacture, but they are far from cheap! I thank you for your service to our country and to your sons future service. I have worked with two large companies that faced the whole oversea dilemma, I was strongly against it, but their greed out weighted their reasoning, they proceeded forward, made tons of money, just like you my friend, but at what cost to this country. Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean you should. You once served your country, now she's in real danger, you can step up, you might loose some profit but you'll make your country stronger. By the way this is not about buying my rail, I can't keep them in stock, its about prenciple. I feel that you are a good man caugth in the global greed machine.

[Codebrown 1]

And BTW, my kid will only run Surefire flashlights. . .

They're good and thats a flashlight thats reliable enough that it got my nod when i was in the desert... expensive though arn't they?

 

isn't this getting right back into what i was saying...

 

the cheapie flashlight i bought was there just for the look, and the S-12 broke it in 1/2. if i had a led surefire i bet it would still be there and functional.

 

That's the ultimate point - if money is no object, buy "the best" of everything (whatever that may be) - but if you're on a budget, you're probably better off to be thrifty on your handguard than your weaponlight. Same goes with optics - I'd rather have a stock handguard on my AR and an Eotech or Aimpoint than a KAC rail and a BSA red-dot!!!!

 

I disagree, if you're on a budget, save up. Isn't that what being on a budget is all about? It took me about six months buying parts to finish my Saiga-12, I could have found the cheapest shit out there and finished it in 2 months, but I wanted quality, so I purchased one item at a time over a period. I'd rather have high-quality American made parts on my S12, so I save up and buy them. When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything. I don't own the Chaos handguards, but if I wanted a quad- or tri-rail guard, I'd be saving up for a bit to buy one of his.

 

I just don't really understand how people in the firearms community, people who are generally pro-American, drop all of their ethics in one second to save some money and buy foreign made stuff, when there are actually good American companies which sell better things. It actually totally fucking baffles me. Wave your flag, drive your Ford or Chevy truck and shop at fucking Walmart, where something like 90% of the items are from fucking China and the others are essentially cheaper versions made by the manufacturer to sell to the suckers who shop there; this is a common practice, if you haven't read about it. Buy American, unless you're going to save a few bucks, then fuck American Businesses, fuck American Entrepreneurs, fuck American Products, and especially FUCK American Workers! People cry about Mom & Pop Shops going out of business, yet they absolutely refuse to do anything about it, not only do they refuse, they actually drive down to Wally World, buy a Chinese hammer and some Chinese nails and help make sure the casket is permanently sealed!

 

Conservative Americans who buy foreign made shit is the greatest hypocrisy I can think of.

 

If you're into preserving that hypocrisy, buy whatever the fuck you want, next time you shop at Wally World, pick yourself up a nice Chinese manufactured American Flag (yes I've seen them) and a cheap lighter, drive home, raise it on your lawn and set it on fire!

 

 

WTF?

 

Sounds like you should buy a Remington 11-87, then - or maybe an 870. If you're on a budget, get a Mossberg. They're all fine - but they don't reload quite as fast as your RUSSIAN Saiga 12. Is your S12 a Tromix? Must be - they're "the best."

 

Do you know why Chrysler just went bankrupt? "Legacy" costs from the UAW and American workers. I don't know what you know about manufacturing, but I'm learning about it - I guess you could call me an "American Entrepreneur" - I've got a product I licensed to a US manufacturer that is used by our military. I've got another product that is a high volume medical consumable, and the only way to be competitive in the market is to have components made offshore. The US companies we got quotes from were looking to ass-rape us. Our unit cost discrepancy is making the difference between success and failure (the key component is made in Germany).

 

Back to Saiga 12's - "When dealing with firearms, you're rarely better off being "thrifty" on anything" - Well, there are certain aspects of anything where "good enough" is fine. Have you ever heard "(the) Perfect is the enemy of (the) good?" It's a quote from Voltaire - the Russians used that philosophy in WWII to build a shitload of "good enough" T34's instead of Germany's much superior King Tigers, and they won.

 

I can afford to buy any forearm I want, now. I don't have to save up. The reason I'm in that position is because when faced with an opportunity to save money on various things in life, and take risks where warranted, I've done so. I don't have a Chaos rail, either. Perhaps I'll buy one and check it out. I've got SK tools in the cabinet in the garage - I've got a POS Harbor Freight Tools socket set in my "bug-out" seabag full of shit. It's good enough, I'll use it once, if ever.

 

Point is, that Leaper's rail looks like it's "good enough." Anything "above it" is servicing your vanity, or your "buy American" conscience. So be it. There's nothing wrong with that - nor is there anything wrong with saving $200 and buying a Surefire light and some F'in ammo.

Don't give me that crap, I had to go over seas shit! I am a American manufacture and was faced with the same dilemma you where. I spent three months researching to get the key US companies involved to lower the cost of my rails systems and keep the quality the same. Sure my profit is lower, but I still make money, we are at war! You should be ashamed of yourself exploiting cheap labor in other countries all awhile contributing to the lost of jobs in your country, rather than taking the time to network with companies right here in your own country that can and will meet most of your demands in cost and quality. I guess its a good thing that our forefathers didn't think the way you modern "American Entrepreneur" think. The fact is this kind of lazy ass fuck over your countrymen attitude blows me away. Truth is, this is just another example how easy people will roll over and go with the flow. Do you have kids? The only way to maintain a strong nation, is by having strong manufactures. We are at war! Our manufacturing committees are being attacked and your idea of help is to buy from the other guy! We all must cut corners, trim the fat, but this greedy attitude will destroy our country. As far as your comments about big business, Fuck business, they're the reason we're facing this shit to start with. We can take back our power, our might, one purchase at a time. The people's buying power is the might, not who is in office, or what country can make it cheaper. If the people in this country would just wake up from their slumber and realize what the men and women of our country realized hundreds of year ago, that we the people are the force of power. We are at war!!!!! Which side will you chose?

 

I don't pretend to know how or why you make your business decisions, don't pretend to know how we've made ours. I realize we're at war, and I've got a product licensed to a US manufacturer and distributor that's sold seven figures worth to the military and counting. I've served in the military, and was able to bring back something that was found useful. Yes, I have kids, my oldest hopes to go to the Naval Academy and serve his country like his dad and uncle (a Special Forces "Soldier of the Year") did. I'm guessing he will.

 

I think our dilemmas were different. The product we're buying offshore components for has most of the key parts made and assembled here - but there are only a few manufacturers in the world that can do the volume we need one one of the main components, and the US based ones so far have been out to screw us. I can't and won't bore you with details - suffice it to say that the global market is up to 100 million units annually, current market players don't want us in their space (and have their components ALL made and assembled offshore), and if we're going to be able to exploit our innovation and get it to market and have a US company take over some of that space - TAKE IT BACK - we're going to have to have certain things made offshore. Or, I could just license my IP to a multinational company who will pay me and then kill it so they can maintain the status quo - they've offered. Fuck them.

 

I won't go so far as to say F you, because I see where you're coming from, and I'm guessing if you knew more about me you'd get my angle too.

 

I chimed in on this post not to dog your rail or products (as I said, after checking things out I'll probably buy some) - I actually have held the topic of the post, the Leaper's rail, in my hand and looked at it at the SHOT Show. I'm not sure if you were there, the only other person that I recall who says he's seen it - "Bvamp" - also thought it was "good enough" for what it is. Lots of other people chiming in on what a POS it is or isn't probably don't have a good basis for their opinion. I haven't posted here for years, I usually just read them - I had to make a new profile because I couldn't remember the old one. I should have just left it to the guys who have seen a picture of one, or who are saving up for six months to buy one of yours, I guess.

 

Clearly I stepped in the shit on the "US vs. Offshore" thing. I've put my money where my mouth is on the US made thing, and I won't be "ashamed of myself" for anything, nor do I have to defend anything - to you or anyone else. "Lazy ass?" You have no idea. Let's just leave it at that.

 

Anyway, I hope your hard work pays off - likewise I'm sure.

First off I'm not impressed with big numbers, but it proves my point that much more. However there are components that countries like Germany specialize in, things that other countries would be hard pressed to manufacture, but they are far from cheap! I thank you for your service to our country and to your sons future service. I have worked with two large companies that faced the whole oversea dilemma, I was strongly against it, but their greed out weighted their reasoning, they proceeded forward, made tons of money, just like you my friend, but at what cost to this country. Just because everyone else is doing it doesn't mean you should. You once served your country, now she's in real danger, you can step up, you might loose some profit but you'll make your country stronger. By the way this is not about buying my rail, I can't keep them in stock, its about prenciple. I feel that you are a good man caugth in the global greed machine.

 

I've stepped up before, and others of my family are still in harm's way - and I didn't once serve our country, I feel I still do. I've made personal and professional sacrifices for the good old USA, and we've both gained. I know a lot about principle, and honor, and courage, and comittment. I've been schooled by some great leaders - and I payed attention.

 

If it was about greed, I'd have already walked away with the money - we're making a product that will save lives, and I will see it get to market, via a US company, or die trying. I've dodged two hostile takeovers on this deal already, and now have good partners I can trust.

 

At this stage I can't share it with you, but you're right - the Germans make some things not many folks can, and not cheap. But, people's lives depend on it. German or Chinese? Don't have to think too long on that one. If the US guys could give us a price and do the volume, they'd have had it. Like I said, they wanted to screw us in the end. It's not about making more or less profit, it's about being viable. That's a big difference. Interestingly, there's a maverick US player that wants a shot before we do our FDA submission - so maybe the dream will come true.

 

Rest assured, if this thing sticks, there will be a lot of folks locally making a good living off it. Including me, I hope . . .

 

Anyway, thanks for the tone of your post - have a good weekend, I'll be in touch about some quad rails.

[vintagedude88 16]

Okay, I'm resurecting this thread. Just saw the listing at Carolina Shooters Supply. Originally posted as delivery on June 10th and now its been change to July 13th????

 

I had a pre-order with another vendor since late April and I still haven't got any word about my order but their website says Saiga rails are shipping now. I doubt these people www.tickbitesupply.com are more in the loop than Greg at CSS is.

 

Anyways, the more I have to wait on this rail, the more I am getting accustomed to not have any quad rail at all. In fact, I'm even questioning the need to have that much rail because I can't think of having that many accessories to fill the rail space.

 

Anyone know what the latest is about this rail?

[billyjoebob 10]

I called Leappers yesterday, and was told that the shipment is due in by the weekend. They feel that the retailers will have them within two weeks.

 

MSRP is around $99. If you give it a few additional weeks, I'm sure vendors will start undercutting eachother and you will get the rail for a better price.

[gpqueen 545]

Okay, I'm resurecting this thread. Just saw the listing at Carolina Shooters Supply. Originally posted as delivery on June 10th and now its been change to July 13th????

 

I had a pre-order with another vendor since late April and I still haven't got any word about my order but their website says Saiga rails are shipping now. I doubt these people www.tickbitesupply.com are more in the loop than Greg at CSS is.

 

Anyways, the more I have to wait on this rail, the more I am getting accustomed to not have any quad rail at all. In fact, I'm even questioning the need to have that much rail because I can't think of having that many accessories to fill the rail space.

 

Anyone know what the latest is about this rail?

I keep getting mixed stories from them. I was told there was a shipment this week and it was only 100 pcs. Most of them will go out for testing. The rest of the shipment will be trickling in within the next 4-6 weeks. They have 3000 back ordered currently. I changed the date based on that. I think DPH has done the same so they must be getting the same story also. They will be here soon.

Greg

[vintagedude88 16]

Okay, I'm resurecting this thread. Just saw the listing at Carolina Shooters Supply. Originally posted as delivery on June 10th and now its been change to July 13th????

 

I had a pre-order with another vendor since late April and I still haven't got any word about my order but their website says Saiga rails are shipping now. I doubt these people www.tickbitesupply.com are more in the loop than Greg at CSS is.

 

Anyways, the more I have to wait on this rail, the more I am getting accustomed to not have any quad rail at all. In fact, I'm even questioning the need to have that much rail because I can't think of having that many accessories to fill the rail space.

 

Anyone know what the latest is about this rail?

I keep getting mixed stories from them. I was told there was a shipment this week and it was only 100 pcs. Most of them will go out for testing. The rest of the shipment will be trickling in within the next 4-6 weeks. They have 3000 back ordered currently. I changed the date based on that. I think DPH has done the same so they must be getting the same story also. They will be here soon.

Greg

 

Thanks Greg. I knew I can count on you to give straight information. Sorry for not going with you in the first place but David's Collectables had the pre-order link first and I was somewhat anxious. I got an e-mail back from them just last week saying that the rails were clearing customs this week and they will be sending me an e-mail for the status of my "shipment" next week. If that doesn't happen I WILL cancel my order and go with other options. The more that order waits, the more it gives me a chance to change my mind

[vintagedude88 16]

I cancelled my order today. Got tired of waiting. I was able to pick up a Chaos rail for a good price off a fellow Calgunner who sold his to me because he picked up a Halo rail off of this forum. Small world isn't it?

 

Anyways, my hats off to you Cameron for making such a nice product. It was simple and easy to mount and it matches up to my already installed SGM beryl rail, so now I have a flat top look. I moved my BSA red dot from the SGM rail forward to the Chaos and it is now rock solid with no flex like I got with the SGM of course.

 

Because I have that "flat top" feature, I can now consider using flip-up AR sights as a back-up for the red dot. Wish I could do that for my S308. Too bad Cameron doesn't make a rail for the rifle becuase it would be perfect for my set up.

 

After this post, maybe someone will dig it out from the ashes when the Leapers rail finally delivers. Probably late summer at this rate or even sometime before Christmas.

[vbrtrmn 167]

Turns out that rail may be vaporware anyway, Leapers has removed the announcement and product from their site.

 

Sorry, to some of you who don't give a fuck about US businesses, you'll have to spend more at walmart this month to make up for it... actually just kidding, you guys can still go fuck yourselves

Edited June 16, 2009 by vbrtrmn

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

^ So people who disagree with your choice of weapon accessories can "go fuck themselves"?

 

Real classy, vbrtrmn.

[vitamink 90]

He's right about leapers removing it from the list of "coming soon" rails, though can still find it on their site using their search feature. Also cheaper than dirt listed it for sale in this months magazine (in the shotgun section, not the ak section) for like 60something dollars, but they don't have it in stock and they've removed it from cheaperthandirt.com. At this rate it probably will be christmas before it comes out if it does. I'll be honest, price isn't and option as far as rails go so i don't want a UTG forend because its considerably cheaper than anyone elses. I want it because of the features that no one else seems to have..at least not entirely. I like the fact that the rail hugs the gun with no open spaces. it doesn't look like an aluminum shoebox that fits over the barrel and gas system. I like the fact that the rail extends all the way back to mount a red dot (burris fast fire for me) closer to my eyes. I like the fact that, should my red dot crap out, I just look under it and can see the original sights. If that rail was made by MD or Tromix or whomever I'd pay 4 times the price that its listed at just for the features, and if some american wants to make that happen I'll gladly buy one and probably invest in your company as it will be a very popular product.

[vitamink 90]

I just got this today from leapers. I guess August is the answer.

 

"Thank you for writing to us. We are appreciate your interest in our product. Please note out shipment will be delay, so our Saiga 12 mount will be come out at August. If you have any questions, please let us know. We will do our best to support you. Thank you so much for your patience.

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

 

 

James Huang

 

E-MAIL: Jhuang@leapers.com

 

Leapers,Inc.

 

32700 Capitol Street

 

Livonia,MI 48150

 

T: 734-542-1500 x 226

 

F: 734-542-7095"

[vbrtrmn 167]

^ So people who disagree with your choice of weapon accessories can "go fuck themselves"?

 

Real classy, vbrtrmn.

 

No people who buy chinese shit over products made in the USA can, instead of being a douche bag, perhaps you should learn to read the thread.

Edited June 22, 2009 by vbrtrmn

[philg80 1]

^ So people who disagree with your choice of weapon accessories can "go fuck themselves"?

 

Real classy, vbrtrmn.

 

No people who buy chinese shit over products made in the USA can, instead of being a douche bag, perhaps you should learn to read the thread.

So you are trying to tell us that you "NEVER" buy anything foreign made?!?! Do you own Nike, Addidas, what kind of car, where is your shotgun made? Get real dude! Let people buy what they want and can afford.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

^ So people who disagree with your choice of weapon accessories can "go fuck themselves"?

 

Real classy, vbrtrmn. <_>

 

No people who buy chinese shit over products made in the USA can, instead of being a douche bag, perhaps you should learn to read the thread.

So you are trying to tell us that you "NEVER" buy anything foreign made?!?! Do you own Nike, Addidas, what kind of car, where is your shotgun made? Get real dude! Let people buy what they want and can afford.

When there are more parts made in the USA on your shotgun than original parts the lines get blurry... My mossberg was made in the USA, and i know damn well my L.C. Smith was made in syracuse NY.

 

but i'll play. vehicles i've owned 94' chevy S-10, 76' olds cutlass, 01' ford ranger.

 

Bikes i own, 59' XLCH, 75 yamaha so extensivly modified its often mistaken for other bikes(modified in the USA)

 

Footware Rocky jump boots.(just looked unfortunatly made in china) My jungle boots i know are made in the US though. My work boots are converse with a composite toe(again made in china).

 

when i went shopping for a camera i did look for one made in the US... couldn't find one. Best you can do is assembled in the USA.

 

Don't think made in the USA matters? thats fine. I'm sure we will come to grips that we can't have a job market made of just retail and managers.

Edited June 23, 2009 by Nailbomb

[1TIME 1]

Why all the attitude about bolting foreign accessories on a gun that was made in Russia?

[Nailbomb 10,221]

Why all the attitude about bolting foreign accessories on a gun that was made in Russia?

Is this a question about 922r?

[vitamink 90]

It's all about the features. If it were made in the usa I'd be happy to pay 4 times the price to support an american business.

[vintagedude88 16]

Why all the attitude about bolting foreign accessories on a gun that was made in Russia?

Is this a question about 922r?

 

Is your cellphone 922r?

 

Nevertheless, this delay only proves that the rail is "Made In China" Most Chinese companies be it Taiwan or anywhere in that region are just shell companies for their PRC factories. How do I know? Because I used to work for an American hardware manufacturer who also bought "Made In China" parts to suppliment their product line. This delay is indicative of the work stoppage every PRC factory has around Chinese New Year. By the time production is ramped up in late March, products won't hit the boat until early June and then it sits on the water for about one month till it hits here and then customs and then further logistics to its distribution center. So with that schedule, definitely August availability. However if there were changes in design before first articles were approved, count on that schedule being pushed later by another month or two. So I guess I'm right about it probably coming out just before Christmas. So glad I found a Chaos to avoid the wait.

 

If you have to have something to do the trick while on a budget, the new Tapco tri-rail looks good and is cheap at $50. Add the Ultimak gas block rail and it comes to $150 total. I'm assuming the Tapco is US made so there should be no more issues about foreign made accessories.

 

BTW, I drive a Pontiac but its made in Australia. Does that make me un-American?

[Nailbomb 10,221]

BTW, I drive a Pontiac but its made in Australia. Does that make me un-American?

I guess that would depend... are you proud of that fact?