What's the deal with WASR's

[ernestmayhand 10]

My first long gun was a Mossberg 500, then I got the Saiga 12. Then I decided it was time for a rifle, so I went with the 7.62x39 Saiga. I love everything about it. Converted it myself and almost want to get another one just to do it all over again What's the deal with the WASR though? Seems to have quite the following but for me, all I really know is my Saiga x39 so what's the deal? I love the fact that the Saiga is Russian. WASR pros/cons? Are there people that love WASR's but hate Saigas? And vice-versa?

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

WASR's are basically Romanian-made AK's. Their main attraction used to be their low price, (~$350, no conversion necessary), but they've more than doubled since King Barry came to power.

 

They can be great, (though roughly finished), rifles. Or they can be loaded up with such lovely features as canted front sights and gas blocks, and horrible magazine wobble. They've been pretty inconsistent in quality since they were introduced, (I blame this on Century, not the Romanian manufacturer Cugir), however, the most recently produced models, (the GP WASR 10/63's), are of noticably better quality. This is due to the fact that these later model rifles are made from mil-spec matching parts sets, while the "old" WASR-10's were made with parts that weren't part of a matching set and didn't meet military specifications.

 

I should note that no WASR-10's/GP WASR-10/63's have dimpled receivers, as they have to be imported to the States with skinny magwells meant for 10 round mags, (only way it's legal, since they have pistol grips, threaded barrels, bayo lugs etc already in place). Century Arms then mills out the sides of the magwells to allow them to accept standard 30 round military mags. They do have steel stabilizing plates welded into the magwells however, and the mag fit is usually quite snug and very satisfactory in the newer GP WASR's.. hell sometimes they're machined so tight that you have to widen the magwell a bit yourself with a dremel. Obviously if you do this slowly and test fit the mag during the process, you can end up with a perfect fit and zero mag wobble.

 

So GP WASR-10/63's are generally good quality rifles, but they are not worth the price they're typically selling for now, (~$800+).

 

I owned one of them before I bought my SGL20, and it was a good 'un. However, when someone I knew offered me $800 cash for it, it was an offer I couldn't refuse.

Edited April 18, 2009 by post-apocalyptic

[csspecs 1,987]

I bought one for 350.00 out the door.. Thats an OK price, anything more and your getting ripped off. They are junky blasters and nothing more, the hi point of the AK family

 

 

Rommy G kits or the afore mentioned 10/63 are better options.

Edited April 18, 2009 by csspecs

[ernestmayhand 10]

And all of this compared to the Saiga? Of course I realize I'm on the Saiga site

[nalioth 405]

And all of this compared to the Saiga? Of course I realize I'm on the Saiga site

WASRs have always been built from parts that did not pass military QC. This doesn't mean they're "BAD" parts, just not up to military standards.

 

Currently, Romanian is recycling all their old AKs into WASRs, as their production of new guns has been cut.

 

 

Saigas are made from all new parts, many shared with the AK-103 and AK-101 (they're built at the same facility).

[unclejake 428]

And all of this compared to the Saiga? Of course I realize I'm on the Saiga site

There ya go, done answered it yoreself!

[csspecs 1,987]

Currently, Romanian is recycling all their old AKs into WASRs, as their production of new guns has been cut.

 

You know this for a fact? or just repeating that story from classic arms?

 

Last I checked there are a lot coming in.

 

I guess it's better then throwing away the barrels on the G kits, I'd like to think they are both building new and rebuilding old.

[nalioth 405]

Currently, Romanian is recycling all their old AKs into WASRs, as their production of new guns has been cut.

 

You know this for a fact? or just repeating that story from classic arms?

 

Last I checked there are a lot coming in.

 

I guess it's better then throwing away the barrels on the G kits, I'd like to think they are both building new and rebuilding old.

Puh-lease.

 

I can read and think for myself.

 

Classic Arms took a grain of truth (Romania is diversifying their manufacturing capabilities, leaving less available for AKs) and blew it way out of proportion (you know, to sell things).

 

Quite a few of the WASRs coming in lately have dates from the 60s on them.

 

As with all commie countries, the Romanians have hundreds of thousands of standard and "G" code AKMs in storage over there, doing them no good, and this is what they're cannabilizing more and more to produce WASRs these days.

[WardenWolf 6]

Which is also why we're seeing more PSL's. Now those are fine rifles. They're importable fully intact, minus the bayonet lug. And you really don't need a bayonet on one of those things.

[Ruffian72 548]

Posted before aout these. 7 to 8 yrs ago could get for $175.00(cut out your magwell) to $225 already done. Quality varied with each lot. Have 2. Over 4,000 rds each. Always went bang and hit out 75 to 100 yds. Considered an entry level rifle. My kids,(grown now) and there friends, have spent many times shooting the heck out of them. 1,000rds 7.62x39 was at $75 a case when rifles were purchased. At the price they are now, just get a quality built, or if cheap, fun plinking.

[mstranglr 9]

Just be mindful of the following;

 

WASRs are "budget minded" Aks, nothing more. Quality is hit or miss, and you may or may not end up needing to do some additional work to the rifle to get it to run reliably. My WASR needed extensive Dremel work to run reliably, but is now a fun plinker. The newer ones that I have handled are a "Frankenstein" hodgepodge of reused parts, but the mag-well chop-job looks cleaner than past examples. WASRs used to sell for $250-$300, so these made good "beater" AKs at a reasonable price, but At $800 in today's market, not so good of a deal.

 

Romanian military rifles are just as good as any other, but they were made with quality matching components and attention to detail in assembly. As a matter of fact, a quality matching "G" kit built on an NDS receiver with proper workmanship makes a fantastic rifle. I even have one of the older Romanian SARs, and that is a decent AK.

 

Truth is, everything that the "master gunsmiths" at Century assemble should be suspected of poor workmanship. Not just the WASR, but Century FALs, ARs, and Galils suffer the same butchery. Do a search on the web for these other Century guns for some real horror stories. The word WASR, has become so synonymous with poor quality, that most retailers now just market them as "Romanian AKs". These are some things to inspect for if you buy a WASR:

 

* Bad mag-well chop-job

* Canted FSB and/or GB

* Excessive magazine wobble

* Loose or not completely crushed rivets

* Large gap or uneven fit between front of receiver and the front trunnion

* Trigger slap (need to fire to find this one, but a G2 trigger is an easy fix)

* Functioning safety lever (some examples fail to block the trigger when in the "safe" position)

* Bore / chamber with corrosion, missing chrome, or worn rifling

* Trigger / Hammer pin holes that are too large and allow the pins to move in the holes

* Trigger getting caught on the front of the trigger hole in the receiver

* Damaged muzzle crown

 

Saigas are high quality builds from brand new high quality parts. For about 2-3 hours of labor and about $200 in parts, you can convert the Saiga into a top-notch AK. Having one of the best stamped receiver AKs you can get in today's market for about $550 total and a few hours of work, is a great bargain IMHO.

[nalioth 405]

WASRs are "budget minded" Aks, nothing more.

Yes, unlike other companies *COUGH*Arsenal*COUGH*, they're just being sold more closely to what their production cost is.

 

Truth is, everything that the "master gunsmiths" at Century assemble should be suspected of poor workmanship.

Poor poor you, if you ever get a Century beer o'clock Friday special. Example: One guy on another forum recently found he had a "Cetme rifle" that was built with G3 parts. He couldn't figure out why none of his Cetme accessories were working.

 

* Canted FSB and/or GB

All Kalashnikovs have canted parts. The problem arises when they are so canted, you can't zero the rifle. If you can zero the rifle, the canted parts aren't a problem

 

* Bad mag-well chop-job

* Excessive magazine wobble

The excessive mag wobble is when the magazine flips from side to side so far it hangs up the bolt carrier or allows a bolt-over-cartdidge situation. All Kalashnikovs have "mag wobble" to some extent - if it is so bad your rifle won't function 'gangsta style', that is the "mag wobble" everyone talks about

 

* Loose or not completely crushed rivets

I've never seen or heard of a WASR with this issue. Hesse builds are famous for it, though.

 

* Large gap or uneven fit between front of receiver and the front trunnion

Cosmetic in nature. Does not affect function

 

* Trigger slap (need to fire to find this one, but a G2 trigger is an easy fix)

This has not been an issue in any WASR produced for the last 2 years or so. Century (wisely) went to the G2 trigger group back then.

 

Saigas are high quality builds from brand new high quality parts. For about 2-3 hours of labor and about $200 in parts, you can convert the Saiga into a top-notch AK. Having one of the best stamped receiver AKs you can get in today's market for about $550 total and a few hours of work, is a great bargain IMHO.

Excellent advice. Saigas are a very good choice.

 

You can always check out the Romanian AK Bible for more good info on Romanian Kalashnikov imports.

[imarangemaster 315]

The GP WASR 10/63 I traded for my Saiga 7.62x39 was VERY good. Rather than the substandard parts, it was matching numbers on bolt, carrier, top cover, trunion, and barrel. It had a date of 1967, and the arrow in the triangle proof. More of the WARSs are being built on cut up kits. It was straight and finish was decent, with average AK mag wobble.

 

Saw a WASR (non-GP) at a gunshop this week that had no numbers or proofs on trunion or any parts, and a funny looking trunion. It was obviously not built up from a parts kit.

 

PS Actually I would have been content with it, if I hadn't gotten a 7.62x39 Saiga and 600 rounds of Golden Tiger for it in a trade!

Edited April 20, 2009 by imarangemaster

[nalioth 405]

The GP WASR 10/63 I traded for my Saiga 7.62x39 was VERY good. Rather than the substandard parts, it was matching numbers on bolt, carrier, top cover, trunion, and barrel. It had a date of 1967, and the arrow in the triangle proof. More of the WARSs are being built on cut up kits. It was straight and finish was decent, with average AK mag wobble.

Quite a lot of the late WASRs are being built from Romanian military surplus rifles, instead of the 'seconds' and 'military rejected parts' of their predecessors.

 

This is partially due to Romanian cutting down production of new Kalashnikovs, and also having zillions in storage, not doing them any good at all.

[imarangemaster 315]

My GP WASR 10/63 had matching finish on all parts except the receiver and Tapco G2 FCG. i think it was original.. Bore was pristine, as was the inside of the gas system. Of course, now I am happier with my Siaga! :wub:

[Twinsen 86]

Just to restate what others have, the build quality on the WASR is hit or miss. And boy can you miss! Mine didn't cycle from the factory. And everything was horribly canted. I half fixed something, I forget what exactly. I haven't touched it in forever, it's a piece of crap. I bought an FAL as well, so that WASR never ever gets touched.

 

The Saiga is hit or miss, but not as bad. To put it in car terms, sometimes you can buy a Saiga and a few bolts are loose here and there. Maybe there are a couple rattles. For the WASR, sometimes you can buy one with no working doors, and the engine tossed in the back seat.