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Mittelmorder

I'm trying to tap for the bullet guide, wont work?

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Hi there, i just received my bullet guide kit and i fitted it, tested for function, drilled the hole to the correct depth, and now i'm trying to tap it.. but it wont work? what am i doing wrong?

 

I put the tap in the tap holder, locked it down tight (so it doesnt rotate within the device) and i'm pushing down and turning it to the right while inside the hole, it only grabs a little and doesnt go down deep into the hole like it should be doing? if i don't apply pressure it just spins.. what am i doing wrong? I know i have to turn and go back halfways, but that isnt working either.. or does it just take a long time? thanks.

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Hey Mit, I just did this on my x39 yesterday. You said you drilled the hole to the correct depth? When I drilled mine the metal was thin, the bit went all the way through( flat cut trunoin). Then I put the tap in a cordless drill, (tap holder I bought made contact with the trunion so I couldn't use it)got about half way through the hole and damaged the tap because I was flexing the tap and didn't back it out often enough. Used a punch and a framing hammer to shatter the broken bits of the tap. I was still able to finish tapping it with damaged tap. I've put about hundred rounds through it, with no problems what so ever, (thanks Dinzag, awesome product).

 

Anyway, it sounds like you haven't drilled the pilot hole deep enough or your not using enough pressure to get the tap in there. Hope that helps.

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Hey Mit, I just did this on my x39 yesterday. You said you drilled the hole to the correct depth? When I drilled mine the metal was thin, the bit went all the way through( flat cut trunoin). Then I put the tap in a cordless drill, (tap holder I bought made contact with the trunion so I couldn't use it)got about half way through the hole and damaged the tap because I was flexing the tap and didn't back it out often enough. Used a punch and a framing hammer to shatter the broken bits of the tap. I was still able to finish tapping it with damaged tap. I've put about hundred rounds through it, with no problems what so ever, (thanks Dinzag, awesome product).

 

Anyway, it sounds like you haven't drilled the pilot hole deep enough or your not using enough pressure to get the tap in there. Hope that helps.

 

How much pressure is needed to get that tap in there? I'm pushing pretty hard.. do i gotta really force it?

 

I'll check the hole depth again in a sec

 

Edit: I just checked the depth, it's PLENTY long enough.

Edited by Mittelmorder

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Check out Dinzags site, he's got a good write up on the process. Just don't flex the tap, think about the process, and watch the metal being cut. I used PB blast as a lubricant also.

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Check out Dinzags site, he's got a good write up on the process. Just don't flex the tap, think about the process, and watch the metal being cut. I used PB blast as a lubricant also.

 

I read dinzags guide, he says to go slowly and in line with the hole.. which is what i'm doing and it aint working.

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Well I'm carpenter not a metal worker, but it sounds like the tap is not entering the pilot hole,,,, wrong size pilot bit, damaged tap, not enough pressure, are the only things I can think of without actually touching it, sorry bro.

Edited by Dirty

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Well I'm carpenter not a metal worker, but it sounds like the tap is not entering the pilot hole,,,, wrong size pilot bit, damaged tap, not enough pressure, are the only things I can think off without actually touching it, sorry bro.

 

heh, well the hole is the right size... tap is the right size (got it from the dinzag kit) so it must be pressure.

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Mit, try checking the teeth on the tap, do they bent or crushed? Using some type of lubricant may help also. I'm just throwing out some ideas......

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I don't have lubricant so i doused it in Breakfree CLP, and i put the tap into a drill.. the drill with it's speed and pressure seems to be helping, just i wont be able to do it for long cause of the trunnion getting int he way

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Yea, I know what your talking about, I had to adjust the tap in the chuck of my drill so that it would clear the trunnion, you want that tap to go in straight. CLP should work fine. Once you get it going remember to pull the metal flakes out the hole. Also I lubed it up good. I also had my rifle in a vice, very helpful.

Good Luck

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i was going nice and slow and now i think the drill screwed it all up.

 

I put the screw into the hole and it screws in for a few seconds, then it just drops in.. and i can pull it out a tiny but, but to get it out i have to unscrew it, it wont hold down the guide, the guide can bounce around a bit up and down.. i think it might work if i douse it with locktite and seal it up.

Edited by Mittelmorder

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And if that doesn't work, you can try JB weld, or I've seen on this site that a rivet installed with a hammer has worked.

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And if that doesn't work, you can try JB weld, or I've seen on this site that a rivet installed with a hammer has worked.

 

If JBweld and loctite dont work, i'm gonna drill all the way down through and use a longer screw.. have a bolt on the bottom of the receiver hold it in tight. - Yeah, i just tried cock the Saiga with the bullet guide in like that and the bolt makes it rip the screw out and go flying... bloody hell i'm stupid at mechanical crap

Edited by Mittelmorder

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I'm sure it will work, I've got JBweld in a WASR to fix a mag wobble problem. You will probably be OK with just locktite red.

Edited by Dirty

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Ok, about an hour ago i stuffed JB into the hole, coated the guide in it and put it in. Then i covered the guide and it's sides with it so it locks itself to the saiga.. i'm thinking it will hold, as it's being held from multiple directions and a jbwelded screw now.

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Ok....lets go into using a tap 101. First off you are using a tap that is made out of hardened steel to cut the metal out of the reciever for the threads of the bolt. Now the tap is harder than the metal that the weapon is made of but its also VERY BRITTLE! Also both are made of steel, so its not goin to just thread in like a bolt. Second thing to remember is, DO NOT BREAK THE TAP OFF!!!! I promise that tap is harder than most drill bits and abou the only way to get it out is to chisel it out. Once you have your hole drilled, if you are having problems starting the tap DONT FORCE IT, DONT PUT IT IN A DRILL, DONT GRAB A SET OF VICE GRIPS!!! Take a larger drill bit and de-burr the hole. This means to drill the hole out slightly with the larger bit to remove any burrs, and to make it easier to start the tap. THAT MEANS REMOVE ABOUT 1/32 in. OF MATERIAL. Dont drill half the thread length and expect your bolt to hold. Now back to using the tap....this goes for tapping new threads, retapping old threads, etc, once you get the tap started straight, you want to CUT 1/2 TURN OF THREADS AND THEN TURN THE TAP BACKWARDS AND CLEAN THE METAL FROM THE THREADS YOU JUST MADE! If you do not turn the tap backwards it will start to clog all the cutting edges of the tap and it will bind up. Always turn the tap 1/2 turn fwd then 1/2 turn backwards. Once then tap clogs up, not only will it screw up the tap, the hole, you will probably snap the tap off in the hole. I work on helicopter engines for the Army and when it comes to tapping a hole, a screw up is goin to cost my unit at least $500,000 and give me a shitload of work b/c I will have to replace that engine. Hope this helps you guys out.

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I have a question about a method.

 

 

What if i drilled all the way down through the trunnion and receiver (in the hole i'm using now that i tried to tap) and pop out at the bottom of the receiver, then get a long screw that is the same size and bolt the bullet guide down from the bottom of the receiver with a loctited, jbwelded bolt? (that would go on the screw poking out at the bottom)

 

Seems like it would work.. and it's not really major surgery, any ideas?

 

I'm starting to think JBwelding the bullet guide obviously won't hold..

Edited by Mittelmorder

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Ok....lets go into using a tap 101. First off you are using a tap that is made out of hardened steel to cut the metal out of the reciever for the threads of the bolt. Now the tap is harder than the metal that the weapon is made of but its also VERY BRITTLE! Also both are made of steel, so its not goin to just thread in like a bolt. Second thing to remember is, DO NOT BREAK THE TAP OFF!!!! I promise that tap is harder than most drill bits and abou the only way to get it out is to chisel it out. Once you have your hole drilled, if you are having problems starting the tap DONT FORCE IT, DONT PUT IT IN A DRILL, DONT GRAB A SET OF VICE GRIPS!!! Take a larger drill bit and de-burr the hole. This means to drill the hole out slightly with the larger bit to remove any burrs, and to make it easier to start the tap. THAT MEANS REMOVE ABOUT 1/32 in. OF MATERIAL. Dont drill half the thread length and expect your bolt to hold. Now back to using the tap....this goes for tapping new threads, retapping old threads, etc, once you get the tap started straight, you want to CUT 1/2 TURN OF THREADS AND THEN TURN THE TAP BACKWARDS AND CLEAN THE METAL FROM THE THREADS YOU JUST MADE! If you do not turn the tap backwards it will start to clog all the cutting edges of the tap and it will bind up. Always turn the tap 1/2 turn fwd then 1/2 turn backwards. Once then tap clogs up, not only will it screw up the tap, the hole, you will probably snap the tap off in the hole. I work on helicopter engines for the Army and when it comes to tapping a hole, a screw up is goin to cost my unit at least $500,000 and give me a shitload of work b/c I will have to replace that engine. Hope this helps you guys out.

 

 

RedneckSoldier speaks the truth.

 

But one size larger drill bit and tap and do EXACTLY as RedmneckSoldier instructs go slow,back out and cleanout every 1/2 turn and do it right from the git go

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Mitt I don't think you have to drill all the way through the whole trunnion. Just drill and tap one size larger, you may have to drill out the hole in the guide as well. I know you can you buy what you need at Lowes for less than $20.

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Mitt I don't think you have to drill all the way through the whole trunnion. Just drill and tap one size larger, you may have to drill out the hole in the guide as well. I know you can you buy what you need at Lowes for less than $20.

 

I don't want to tap again.

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Well, the good news is the JB weld is dry and it's holding amazingly strong. (I can yank on the guide with plyers as hard as i can and it wont budge a bit, i slammed it with a punch and hammer from the bottom side and it wont come off.)

 

But will it get too hot and melt the JB weld where it's position, or is there little heat on that location? Because if all it has to withstand is rounds ramping up into the chamber, it seems like it's damn strong enough.

 

Also: wouldnt drilling and tapping the next size up not work due to the specific size? I know i could weld it on also, but would soldering work? (Like soldering a brake.) I'm out of options and feel like a moron.. could someone suggest something?

Edited by Mittelmorder

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Mit, sounds like you've got it, cool. JBweld is pretty good stuff, I can't say about the heat melting the JBweld. I've read on here that soldering has worked for some. Actually welding it on there is probably not a good idea, too much heat may damage the rifle. I'd re-drill and tap it, but if you don't want to do that, worse case scenario now is that if the JBweld fails you could just reapply it. Next step is putting some rounds through it and make sure it functions.

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Yeah, i plan on going out with 30 rounds and letting it rip, see what happens... If it doesnt melt in that 30 rounds rapid fire, and it functions fine.. i think i'd be safe to say it will work.

 

But if it doesnt work then i'm going to either redrill and tap (last choice) drill through the trunnion (dont wanna really.) or try to find a way to weld/solder it down.

Edited by Mittelmorder

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Yeah, i plan on going out with 30 rounds and letting it rip, see what happens... If it doesnt melt in that 30 rounds rapid fire, and it functions fine.. i think i'd be safe to say it will work.

 

But if it doesnt work then i'm going to either redrill and tap (last choice) drill through the trunnion (dont wanna really.) or try to find a way to weld/solder it down.

 

 

It will work for a little while depending on how hot you get your weapon due to the swell and shrink of the trunnion with heat not because it will melt the 400 degree tolerant JB Weld.

 

You should really very carefully ream the hole one size larger and buy a new tap to make for a permanent solution that won't crap out on you eventually.

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Yeah, i plan on going out with 30 rounds and letting it rip, see what happens... If it doesnt melt in that 30 rounds rapid fire, and it functions fine.. i think i'd be safe to say it will work.

 

But if it doesnt work then i'm going to either redrill and tap (last choice) drill through the trunnion (dont wanna really.) or try to find a way to weld/solder it down.

 

 

It will work for a little while depending on how hot you get your weapon due to the swell and shrink of the trunnion with heat not because it will melt the 400 degree tolerant JB Weld.

 

You should really very carefully ream the hole one size larger and buy a new tap to make for a permanent solution that won't crap out on you eventually.

 

I know nothing of taps.. what size bit and tap would i need to go one size up, and make it work?

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Yeah, i plan on going out with 30 rounds and letting it rip, see what happens... If it doesnt melt in that 30 rounds rapid fire, and it functions fine.. i think i'd be safe to say it will work.

 

But if it doesnt work then i'm going to either redrill and tap (last choice) drill through the trunnion (dont wanna really.) or try to find a way to weld/solder it down.

 

 

It will work for a little while depending on how hot you get your weapon due to the swell and shrink of the trunnion with heat not because it will melt the 400 degree tolerant JB Weld.

 

You should really very carefully ream the hole one size larger and buy a new tap to make for a permanent solution that won't crap out on you eventually.

 

I know nothing of taps.. what size bit and tap would i need to go one size up, and make it work?

 

I've seen the question "what size is Dinzags tap" before. I'm sure if you search for it you'll find the answer, then just go one more size up. Good Luck

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