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Converting VS Non-Converting


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that was my point about what i said.. if you dont want to convert.. i dont personally care.. im not trying to FORCE anyone to convert.. it doesnt impact me at all.. im simply stating that my personal experience has been that the difference between converted and unconverted are night and day.. and im happy i converted.. thats all..

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I cant wait to get my ak converted saiga 8 more days :D , my friend saiga was stock when i shot it but he sold it to me for $500 already converted and did all the work himself. So did i got good deal on this? i love the gun cause its a ak and cant wait to shoot it.

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I like to consider myself a rifleman. I have never killed a man with a rifle, but I have killed animals in 5 countries with them. Also competition shoots ranging from varmint, to high power distance, to 3-gun. As well as hundreds of hours of tactical training. I know enough to understand the importance of trigger control and follow through even during rapid-fire at close distance.

 

I can say one thing with CERTAINTY about every rifleman I know; They understand the importance of a great trigger. Sights, optics, breathing, position stability, loads, ranging - means NOTHING if you do not have a trigger that is consistent, sharp, and controllable. The factory Saiga trigger is inconsistent, gritty, and BARELY controllable.

 

Trigger pull on a factory Saiga is comparable to a .38 snub revolver. Trigger pull with a G2 installed on a converted rifle is more like a 1911 (with a little more take-up of course).

 

I have no problem with people wanting to leave their guns unconverted, I have a couple of unconverted ones myself, and they work regardless. What I do disagree with is those who claim that there are no advantages to a converted Saiga. LOP, ergonomics, handling, and overall length are other benefits to the conversion.

 

If you have no rifle marksmanship training or experience (like most gun owners) and the factory trigger seems good to you, that is fine. What some of the more experienced rifle guys are trying to tell you about converting is that it makes the Saiga a BETTER rifle.

 

It almost seems like some folks keep trying to justify not converting, and the sad news for you is that you will not find much justification here.

 

Not trying to justify anything - I am asking! I have read complaints about the position of the trigger, but not so much the problems with resistance before (and I am sure that is because I have not read nearly as much on these forums as others).

 

Rather than relocating the trigger, could the trigger not just simply be replaced with a better one in the original location on the Saiga?

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Not trying to justify anything - I am asking! I have read complaints about the position of the trigger, but not so much the problems with resistance before (and I am sure that is because I have not read nearly as much on these forums as others).

 

Rather than relocating the trigger, could the trigger not just simply be replaced with a better one in the original location on the Saiga?

It's not the location of the trigger at all.

 

The Norinco Hunter and the Saiga 308 both have rear set triggers, but neither of them suck. This is a Norinco Hunter trigger. It sits in the normal spot, but has an elongated "booger hook" to get back to the rear of the receiver.

 

dscn1848vz0-1024.jpg

 

 

 

In any other Saiga, parts 7, 8, 9 and 10 (shown below) make up the "trigger". You'd have to destroy two "good" trigger sets to get one "good" trigger to use in the factory Saiga, and it would STILL SUCK because of the Rube Goldberg linkage.

 

saiga556_664_a.JPG

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I like to consider myself a rifleman. I have never killed a man with a rifle, but I have killed animals in 5 countries with them. Also competition shoots ranging from varmint, to high power distance, to 3-gun. As well as hundreds of hours of tactical training. I know enough to understand the importance of trigger control and follow through even during rapid-fire at close distance.

 

I can say one thing with CERTAINTY about every rifleman I know; They understand the importance of a great trigger. Sights, optics, breathing, position stability, loads, ranging - means NOTHING if you do not have a trigger that is consistent, sharp, and controllable. The factory Saiga trigger is inconsistent, gritty, and BARELY controllable.

 

Trigger pull on a factory Saiga is comparable to a .38 snub revolver. Trigger pull with a G2 installed on a converted rifle is more like a 1911 (with a little more take-up of course).

 

I have no problem with people wanting to leave their guns unconverted, I have a couple of unconverted ones myself, and they work regardless. What I do disagree with is those who claim that there are no advantages to a converted Saiga. LOP, ergonomics, handling, and overall length are other benefits to the conversion.

 

If you have no rifle marksmanship training or experience (like most gun owners) and the factory trigger seems good to you, that is fine. What some of the more experienced rifle guys are trying to tell you about converting is that it makes the Saiga a BETTER rifle.

 

It almost seems like some folks keep trying to justify not converting, and the sad news for you is that you will not find much justification here.

 

Not trying to justify anything - I am asking! I have read complaints about the position of the trigger, but not so much the problems with resistance before (and I am sure that is because I have not read nearly as much on these forums as others).

 

Rather than relocating the trigger, could the trigger not just simply be replaced with a better one in the original location on the Saiga?

 

Dinzag Arms sells a smoothed out replacement trigger for unconverted Saigas or you can smooth one out yourself if you know what you are doing. The problem is that the improvement is still minimal. On unconverted Saigas, the trigger is separated into two pieces, which are strung together with additional parts. This means more friction and resistance points in the system. The factory Saiga trigger system is often referred to as a "Rube Goldberg" design.

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Not trying to justify anything - I am asking! I have read complaints about the position of the trigger, but not so much the problems with resistance before (and I am sure that is because I have not read nearly as much on these forums as others).

 

Rather than relocating the trigger, could the trigger not just simply be replaced with a better one in the original location on the Saiga?

It's not the location of the trigger at all.

 

The Norinco Hunter and the Saiga 308 both have rear set triggers, but neither of them suck. This is a Norinco Hunter trigger. It sits in the normal spot, but has an elongated "booger hook" to get back to the rear of the receiver.

 

dscn1848vz0-1024.jpg

 

 

 

In any other Saiga, parts 7, 8, 9 and 10 (shown below) make up the "trigger". You'd have to destroy two "good" trigger sets to get one "good" trigger to use in the factory Saiga, and it would STILL SUCK because of the Rube Goldberg linkage.

 

saiga556_664_a.JPG

 

Thank you for the information (which is what I was after this whole time). I know everyone says how easy it is to do the conversion, but I am not ready to do it yet. My first conversion will probably be one that someone else did - then I will have a comparison to do if I convert my first Saiga. Still, I really don't know what all the fuss is about, I don't consider it a real AK unless it is a full auto, and a Kalashnikov original - which I would guess is out of realm of remote possibility for most of us. If you have such a weapon, congratulations - and I am truly jealous.

 

But once again, thank you for the information.

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I own two Saigas and converted both. At first I was a little apprehensive about doing the conversion myself since I'm still relatively new to firearms, but after doing some research I decided that the benefits would outweigh any negatives.

 

Better balanced weapons aside, the hands on experience I've gained on the inner workings of AK type firearms is invaluable.

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When my unconverted Saigas begin to either bore or aggravate me, I'll convert 'em. From what I've seen here, the conversion work looks straightforward and maybe fun. Converting would be cheaper than swapping for another gun...but, would give you another gun.

 

It's nice having something to look forward to.

 

Until then, like another has already said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Bob

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Still, I really don't know what all the fuss is about, I don't consider it a real AK unless it is a full auto, and a Kalashnikov original

 

There is no fuss. People stated the benefits a Saiga would receive from a conversion. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

Wanna convert it? Do it.

 

Don't want to? Don't.

 

But for the people who are saying that a conversion is purely cosmetic........that's simply not true.

 

Until then, like another has already said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

It's not so much fixing it, as it is improving it.

 

I've converted one of my two x39's. Guess which one gets shot a whole hell of a lot more? :)

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Ok, I'll just say this: the risk of jacking up my rifle through a botched conversion job outweighs my miniscule desire to convert it.

I'm 22 years old and besides alternating with a friend, I did it all by myself. It is not difficult. Just use the various videos and websites for reference and you will be fine.

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I could care less if someone converts their firearm or not. It is theirs and they should be able to do as they like. I have no doubt that the converted, or more accurately "restored," firearm is better, but that is not the point.

 

What does aggravate me is these guys that are just to damn frightened or chicken shit to do the conversion and come on here seeking validation from the group for their decision, usually in the form of how they have "proved" that unconverted is really the best way after all.

 

It takes some courage to cut up a working $600+ firearm! If you don't want to convert your's, don't. But don't come here in some desperate attempt at self-justification. We know the truth about you. :chicken:

Edited by Azrial
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I could care less if someone converts their firearm or not. It is theirs and they should be able to do as they like. I have no doubt that the converted, or more accurately "restored," firearm is better, but that is not the point.

 

What does aggravate me is these guys that are just to damn frightened or chicken shit to do the conversion and come on here seeking validation from the group for their decision, usually in the form of how they have "proved" that unconverted is really the best way after all.

 

It takes some courage to cut up a working $600+ firearm! If you don't want to convert your's, don't. But don't here in some desperate attempt at self-justification. We know the truth about you. :chicken:

 

Azrial, Well said!!

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I understand that cost may actually be an issue for some folks on converting. Paying up to $500 for the weapon, outrageous amounts for ammo, etc. Do like I did, a step at a time.

 

First, $30 to get a Dinzag bullet guide kit to take inexpensive mil-surp mags (I actually did this second)

 

Second: I got KVAR Stock and PG for $70 and $30 for Tapco FCG to do basic. You can save a few $$ by goind with Tapco stock. Modify handguard with vent holes ($0).

 

Third: Rent the barrel threading kit from Brian at Dinzag $25 and cut back shroud. Muzzel brake $30. (this is optional)

 

Fourth: Get AK 100 furniture $50-70 and a retainer ($80 Dinzag bolt on) or $20 for regular that you modify to clamp on.

 

I did mine in steps as I could afford it. I am disability retired LE and a HS teacher. I am not bucks up by any stretch of the imagination!

 

My costs to date:

$350 original Saiga

$100 Kvar stock pistol grip and Tapco FCG

$25 rental die and $15 AMD65 brake and crush washer

$20 Rommy qas tube (enroute)

$20 lower handguard retainer to modify (enroute)

$50 for AK 100 handguard (US) from Brian, he has them on sale)

______

$580 total

 

That's cheaper than an Arsenal!

 

On my first saiga, a 223, I first used Tapco T6, but sold it to do a full conversion. With the 7.62x39 I started with full conversion, though I shot it before un modified and love it.

Edited by imarangemaster
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I could care less if someone converts their firearm or not. It is theirs and they should be able to do as they like. I have no doubt that the converted, or more accurately "restored," firearm is better, but that is not the point.

 

What does aggravate me is these guys that are just to damn frightened or chicken shit to do the conversion and come on here seeking validation from the group for their decision, usually in the form of how they have "proved" that unconverted is really the best way after all.

 

It takes some courage to cut up a working $600+ firearm! If you don't want to convert your's, don't. But don't here in some desperate attempt at self-justification. We know the truth about you. :chicken:

 

yeah, that's for sure. if you've never worked on a gun or been around guns much it's a bit daunting ( I honestly got the trigger guard and plate off and had about 30 seconds of panic realizing I just chopped my baby!) but the worst part of doing is 2 things - the more basic drilling just because it's strong metal, and the waiting for dinzag to ship everything (poor guy's busy so I understand, but waiting just sucks) the actual trigger work is simple as can be, nothing worse than slightly tedious in getting the pins back in.

 

it is an unbelievable difference. worst part about the whole thing is the indecision about whether to do it or not. I bought the T-6 stock made for saiga with built in PG because I didn't want to screw up the gun.... now it's on the shelf and I'm out $50.

 

if you want a sporter saiga, that's up to you, whatever, but don't think anybody is going to give you validation on it. I got on here hoping to find someone to convert it for me, manned up, went into DIY mode and both my gun and myself are much better for it!

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Going to go Half-baked for awhile on my incoming FIRST Saiga x39.

 

Dinzag G2 FCGNPG1 for Non-Converted Saiga (+2 on 922r). $62

 

(+1 on 922r) $60

 

NULL $72 (last)

 

I can then just run Surefire's and be below 10 on the 922r and still look Kewl till I get $$

 

I could just do the TAPCO stock $62 and Surefires $XX and still be at less than 10.

 

Still up in the air until I get the x39 in hand... Basically.

 

To each there own.. And as time/money allow I will surely remod mine.

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----Darn Double Post----- Editor gagged I guess----

Going to go Half-baked for awhile on my incoming FIRST Saiga x39.

 

Dinzag G2 FCGNPG1 for Non-Converted Saiga (-2 on 922r). $62

 

Tapco Interfuse T-6 Stock/PG One-Piece Combo (-1 on 922r) $60

 

UTG Sagia Quad Rail (NULL on 922r) $72 (last)

 

I can then just run Surefire's (-3) and be below 10 on the 922r and still look Kewl till I get $$

 

------------

 

I could also do just Dinzags G2 (-2) for $62 and run Surefire mag (-3) and be at 9. or

 

I could just do the TAPCO stock $60 (-1) and Surefires (-3) $XX and still be at 10.

 

Still up in the air until I get the x39 in hand... Basically. Trigger first more than likely either way.

 

To each there own.. And as time/money allow I will surely 're-mod' mine.

Edited by YouWontHearItComing
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Going to go Half-baked for awhile on my incoming FIRST Saiga x39.

 

Dinzag G2 FCGNPG1 for Non-Converted Saiga (+2 on 922r). $62

 

(+1 on 922r) $60

 

NULL $72 (last)

 

I can then just run Surefire's and be below 10 on the 922r and still look Kewl till I get $$

 

I could just do the TAPCO stock $62 and Surefires $XX and still be at less than 10.

 

Still up in the air until I get the x39 in hand... Basically.

 

To each there own.. And as time/money allow I will surely remod mine.

 

forget the chinese made handgaurd.....

 

also you can do an actual conversion for less than the money you listed out..

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Yeah, but it was fun. :-)

 

Hey Gothchick. Your a troll hiding behind your keyboard. I dropped a dime on you to the moderator. I suspect they will check your posts. New folks come here to learn, not be insulted! I believe in live and let live, and everyone has a right to an opinion. You, however, go beyond acceptable limits.

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Yeah, but it was fun. :-)

 

Hey Gothchick. Your a troll hiding behind your keyboard. I dropped a dime on you to the moderator. I suspect they will check your posts. New folks come here to learn, not be insulted! I believe in live and let live, and everyone has a right to an opinion. You, however, go beyond acceptable limits.

 

 

i agree with what you just said with a MINOR tweak...

 

while she IS abbrasive and over the top and DOES need to chill out (and change that horrid avatar)

 

her point IS somewhat valid.. what drove me to make this thread discussing the virtues of converting VS not.. was the recent posts such as "my rifle works just as well unconverted.. i don't think it makes much difference.. the tapco pg/stock combo is just as good as converting..." etc.. etc.. and this is simply not true.. This is NOT to say that it matters if you convert or not.. i am here because im an enthusiast of the rifle platform and like to learn AND help others learn, i am NOT here to talk down to people or talk shit on them.. but with that said the spreading of information such as the rifle functioning as well unconverted with factory FCG is BS at best... converting and moving the FCG forward can be done for a VERY MINIMAL amount of money and VASTLY improves the function of the rifle... we all KNOW that.. so while i certainly respect all the members of the site i do not agree with some of the things that were posted recently in regards to non - converted being just as good as converted, from a function standpoint ..

Edited by DamagedWorld
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