New S 12 mag problems

[SELFDEFENSE 2]

Got a new S 12 109 yesterday. The factory 5-round mag fits fine, very tight, no wobble.

When I insert the mag with 5 rounds in it with a closed bolt, the top round is pushed down to make room for the bolt.

After a few hours in the magwell, the top round is oval due to the pressure against the bolt.

Am I doing something wrong?

 

I also bought two 10-round Pro-Mag. SAI 02 (2nd gen I guess). They don't come close to fitting in the magwell. Its as if it was made for another gun.

Has anyone else experienced this, and if so, what was the solution?

 

Thanks

[Gerry@aol.com 0]

Got a new S 12 109 yesterday. The factory 5-round mag fits fine, very tight, no wobble.

When I insert the mag with 5 rounds in it with a closed bolt, the top round is pushed down to make room for the bolt.

After a few hours in the magwell, the top round is oval due to the pressure against the bolt.

Am I doing something wrong?

 

I also bought two 10-round Pro-Mag. SAI 02 (2nd gen I guess). They don't come close to fitting in the magwell. Its as if it was made for another gun.

Has anyone else experienced this, and if so, what was the solution?

 

Thanks

 

I can't help with the the first problem however, I can help withe the second one! I also had a problem with my new 10 round mags fitting. But one day I saw the vidio on how to make the MD 20 round drum fit and realized that I could do the same "filing" on the 10 round to make it fit. It worked!

 

Go to "YouTube-Fitting your saiga 12 MD-20 Drum" Watch nthe vidio, you'll figuair it out. Do a littlt at a time then try it each time. Good luck!!

 

Also on this forum check out "The right way to fit your drum!"

[hobbyshooter 59]

The top round deformation is a well known issue. If you search for top round deformation you will see were one person drilled a hole in the top of his mag and inserted a grenade pin across the brass ring of the top round to hold it away from the bolt.

 

Personally I always just left my bolt locked open. I always did the same thing with my old pump as I didn't like the idea of it sitting with a round chambered. So I'd leave the bolt back and a round right next to it ready to drop in. The Saiga just eliminates the need for that loose round sitting next to the gun...

[csl 0]

Got a new S 12 109 yesterday. The factory 5-round mag fits fine, very tight, no wobble.

When I insert the mag with 5 rounds in it with a closed bolt, the top round is pushed down to make room for the bolt.

After a few hours in the magwell, the top round is oval due to the pressure against the bolt.

Am I doing something wrong?

 

I also bought two 10-round Pro-Mag. SAI 02 (2nd gen I guess). They don't come close to fitting in the magwell. Its as if it was made for another gun.

Has anyone else experienced this, and if so, what was the solution?

 

Thanks

you could try a metal shotgun shell on the top , that might help

[SELFDEFENSE 2]

Thanks. I will look at the vid. I did something similar to a Polish synthetic mag in my WASR 10 AK (although I don't like messing with things like that since all my equipment is for self defense purposes).

The deformation of the top round is a fairly troubling thing. There are many scenarios where keeping a self defense arm with the bolt open could lead to debris entering the chamber, or requiring a slug to be the top round in the mag when you don't want that, or having the bolt hold knocked off in storage and having a 1-shot shotgun because of the oval 2nd round when you pull the gun out of the closet to confront the zombies. Also, if the deformation takes place quickly for some rounds, you could wind up with reliability problems fairly rapidly.

I will have to do some experiments testing the speed of deformation of various loads, and whether downloading the mag by 1 round eliminates the problem.

 

Thanks again.

 

Update:

 

Experiment 1: Load 00 Buck mag with empty chamber and bolt closed.

Result: Pushing the mag in to seat it deforms the top round sufficiently to cause feeding problems.

Conclusion: Mag with 00 Buck must be inserted with the bolt back.

(Note to self - you have to shoot this puppy dry. No tactical reloads in a fighting situation.)

 

Experiment 2: Load 00 Buck mag with bolt back and chamber a round. See if the deformation of the top round is eliminated.

Result: After 24 hours sitting with top round under the bolt, no obvious damage to shell. Will set aside and fire at the range

Conclusion: Repeat experiment 2 with longer storage periods and verify at the range.

 

Experiment 3: Pro Mag SAI 02 10-round mag - filed down some from the rear locking tab, did not work. Filed down some from the front locking tab, did not work. Filed down the mag body under the front locking tab and it finally locked in the mag well.

Took apart the mag and filed down one ridge line that was the only rough spot I could feel. Silicone sprayed everything inside and out. Hand cycled 4 attempts. Each time the first round chambered and the second round crunched into the feed ramp and was deformed. These mags are not going to work in this gun. Will see if I can get any money back from Pro Mag for the unused one. The one I filed every which way but loose is probably trashed.

Edited April 26, 2009 by SELFDEFENSE

[SELFDEFENSE 2]

Just ordered a Surefire 12 round from Mississippi Auto.

Hope it works better than the Pro mag.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

For the top round in the mag you could try a 12g. snap cap. No deformation there. Just remember round 1 is a dummy and cycle it out before you get busy with the shotgun...

[G O B 3,516]

Never mix dummy and live rounds - NEVER NEVER NEVER!

 

Use the grenade pin method or a steel hull . The grenade pin method can be combined with a tether to remove the pin when you grab your gun, without requiring any further complication in a situation where stress prevents time for complicated preparation! Rack bolt pull trigger. Pin left on tether.

[Patriot12 11]

Just ordered a Surefire 12 round from Mississippi Auto.

Hope it works better than the Pro mag.

If you cut your 12rd surefire to 8rds it will work best. You will notice even stiffer spring tension because the spring stays the same. A 8rd surefire mag will cycle any ammo available.

[SELFDEFENSE 2]

As a last attempt, I looked at the factory mag and the Pro Mag and saw the biggest difference is how much the factory mag sat high in the well. So I decided to file material away from the top of the rear latch.

And VOILA!, I was able to hand cycle 2 10-round loadings. Of course this will have to be verified at the range.

I will start with the modifications on the second Pro Mag from the top of the rear latch and work from there.

[DogMan 2,343]

I much prefer leaving the bolt open with mag inserted and safety off. It seems like the perfect solution to the first round deformation problem. I also like the fact that the condition of the gun is always obvious. One flick of the charging handle and she is ready to rock. Works for me.

[SELFDEFENSE 2]

Got the Surefire 12-round mag a few minutes ago. It clicked in nicely with no filing.

When hand cycling, at about every third round the spring would not advance the next round up until I removed the mag from the gun. So, I decided to open the mag to clean, silicone, and inspect. Upon pushing down the floorplate catch, I could not budge the floorplate off the bottom of the body. Tried hitting it with a rubber hammer and still no movement.

I there some special technique to getting the floorplate off the Surefire?

Thanks.

Edited April 29, 2009 by SELFDEFENSE

[Bvamp 604]

there was a guy here who was using hot glue in the hull neck to stiffen up the front of the shell to prevent this, and claimed it to be effective.

 

my solution - load slug and buck alternately, slug first, with buckshot in the chamber ahead of it on safe, muzzle down behind the front door. and yes, it is a 5 round factory mag that sits in the gun ready to go.

[hobbyshooter 59]

Got the Surefire 12-round mag a few minutes ago. It clicked in nicely with no filing.

When hand cycling, at about every third round the spring would not advance the next round up until I removed the mag from the gun. So, I decided to open the mag to clean, silicone, and inspect. Upon pushing down the floorplate catch, I could not budge the floorplate off the bottom of the body. Tried hitting it with a rubber hammer and still no movement.

I there some special technique to getting the floorplate off the Surefire?

Thanks.

 

I noticed the floorplates being very tight on my Surefire mags, but I was able to get them off with a lot of prying.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

LOL I love that this first round crap is still an issue.

 

I've NEVER had a problem with the first round deforming to the point it wouldn't chamber WHEN MY FIRST ROUND WAS A 2 3/4" #7 1/2 Federal VALUE PACK Target load....

 

What? Why?

 

Ah, here's the reason. 2 3/4 = less pressure on it than the 3" shells, And the SHOT is more tightly compacted in there than say 12 pellet 00 buck.

 

So I load, 7 1/2, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, 00, Slug, Slug. Leave the bolt closed. I can stick one 00 i the chamber, safety on, and i'll never have an issue. Sure the second shot is... Light.... but it beats having to Worry about racking a dummy round out, or pulling a pin, or making sure i have some rare brass hull in there. Nah, just a cheapo 22 cent bird shot in the mix solved ALL my round "deformation" problems.

 

 

Do a test, load a mag, and put a Federal target load on top. Let it sit for 2 or 3 weeks. (I don't recommend the Winchester because of the bulged crimps. I haven't tested this with any of the Remingtons, but the Rem Game loads (black hulls) seem similar and i never had a feed issue with them...)

 

Then, rack the bolt back, and let it fly. If it chambers, issue solved, if it doesn't, then maybe I just got a lucky gun

Edited April 30, 2009 by SaigaNoobie

[SELFDEFENSE 2]

Got the Surefire 12-round mag a few minutes ago. It clicked in nicely with no filing.

When hand cycling, at about every third round the spring would not advance the next round up until I removed the mag from the gun. So, I decided to open the mag to clean, silicone, and inspect. Upon pushing down the floorplate catch, I could not budge the floorplate off the bottom of the body. Tried hitting it with a rubber hammer and still no movement.

I there some special technique to getting the floorplate off the Surefire?

Thanks.

 

I noticed the floorplates being very tight on my Surefire mags, but I was able to get them off with a lot of prying.

 

Hobby:

 

What did you use and how did you get it loose?

I put Breakfree on the bottom overnight and it still won't budge.

 

TIA

[hobbyshooter 59]

Got the Surefire 12-round mag a few minutes ago. It clicked in nicely with no filing.

When hand cycling, at about every third round the spring would not advance the next round up until I removed the mag from the gun. So, I decided to open the mag to clean, silicone, and inspect. Upon pushing down the floorplate catch, I could not budge the floorplate off the bottom of the body. Tried hitting it with a rubber hammer and still no movement.

I there some special technique to getting the floorplate off the Surefire?

Thanks.

 

I noticed the floorplates being very tight on my Surefire mags, but I was able to get them off with a lot of prying.

 

Hobby:

 

What did you use and how did you get it loose?

I put Breakfree on the bottom overnight and it still won't budge.

 

TIA

 

I just used persistence really. I was able to get it to just slightly budge back, then I'd snap it back forward and keep rocking it until I got it back a little further. By that time I could stick a small flat screw driver in and pry it back more.

[rd99fxdl 17]

If you take a small screwdriver and push the button with it you can use the button to pry it a little.

Those bottom plates come right off like that.

[SELFDEFENSE 2]

Thanks.

I rubber mallet hammered the snot out of it. It popped halfway and then flew off with the pieces flying all over the room.

I was surprised when the spring appeared to have a black sticky substance on it. Cleaned it, siliconed the spring and inside of the mag and reassembled.

Still no joy. The rounds will stick about every 4 rounds.

Will probably have to send it back or whatever.

I may try AGPs, but this $130 investment in mags that don't work is going to get into Benelli cost territory pretty soon; and a 5-round semi-auto gun is almost a contradiction in terms.

Edited May 1, 2009 by SELFDEFENSE

[hobbyshooter 59]

That sucks. I guess the follower is dragging in the body? That's really strange, I have 2 12 rnd Surefires, and my friend has one. Both feed great in all 3 of our guns. I haven't tried them in my second gun because it's factory config.

[SELFDEFENSE 2]

On Sunday I went from theoretical to practical by taking the new S 12 to the range. Trigger was very good, pointability was excellent, cycle speed excellent (resulting in way too much ammo being expended ).

The Surefire 12 round mag, which would not hand cycle, worked on 4 12 round strings. I guess the recoil vibration shook free the hang ups that occured during hand cycling. The opposite was the case for the Pro Mags. Neither put 10 rounds thru the gun with 3 tries each. Win Ranger Tactical 00 would not cycle the action in setting 1, whereas Remington Reduced Recoil slugs would. At 25 yards the first 3 slugs in rapid fire with a flash sight picture went into the head of a blue man target . The rest were not as accurate, but very acceptable. After 90 rounds there was no battering that resulted in any pain or bruising. Will have to find lots more ammo to wring out all the combinations of mags and ammo types. I used a lot of S&B 3" 00 Buck and winced when I saw the price tags on the old boxes: $2.75 per 10 round box

The DPH brake/hider seemed to work well and added a certain je ne sais quoi.

Will have to give the mags another run before making decisions.

Edited May 5, 2009 by SELFDEFENSE

[SELFDEFENSE 2]

Got to the range again today and ran 3 12-round sets thru the Surefire mag without failure.

If this keeps up, I will replace the 5-round factory for home defense. The gun has not malfunctioned in 150 rounds, but a Pro Mag choked on the first round chambering so I didn't mess with them.

Will have to set aside time to really work and tweak before making a decision to retire them.

Put on a Pachmayr Decelerator and shot 5 3" mags with no problem (except for everone else who jumped when I lit those babies off )

Edited May 10, 2009 by SELFDEFENSE

[GPalmer 1]

Got to the range again today and ran 3 12-round sets thru the Surefire mag without failure.

If this keeps up, I will replace the 5-round factory for home defense. The gun has not malfunctioned in 150 rounds, but a Pro Mag choked on the first round chambering so I didn't mess with them.

Will have to set aside time to really work and tweak before making a decision to retire them.

Put on a Pachmayr Decelerator and shot 5 3" mags with no problem (except for everone else who jumped when I lit those babies off )

Try it with an 8" barrel, it really gets everyone's attention! :lolol:

[hobbyshooter 59]

Got to the range again today and ran 3 12-round sets thru the Surefire mag without failure.

If this keeps up, I will replace the 5-round factory for home defense. The gun has not malfunctioned in 150 rounds, but a Pro Mag choked on the first round chambering so I didn't mess with them.

Will have to set aside time to really work and tweak before making a decision to retire them.

Put on a Pachmayr Decelerator and shot 5 3" mags with no problem (except for everone else who jumped when I lit those babies off )

 

I'm glad the surefires are working for you. I had an excellent experience with mine also. If I buy anymore it will be surefires, and the 1 gauge experience made the decision that much easier when buying .223 mags.

 

They required fitment, but feed flawlessly.

[SELFDEFENSE 2]

Got to the range again today and ran 3 12-round sets thru the Surefire mag without failure.

If this keeps up, I will replace the 5-round factory for home defense. The gun has not malfunctioned in 150 rounds, but a Pro Mag choked on the first round chambering so I didn't mess with them.

Will have to set aside time to really work and tweak before making a decision to retire them.

Put on a Pachmayr Decelerator and shot 5 3" mags with no problem (except for everone else who jumped when I lit those babies off )

Try it with an 8" barrel, it really gets everyone's attention! :lolol:

*'

Would probably singe my 5 o'clock shadow