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Hello all,

 

I'm new to the forum, and plan to be purchasing my first rifle soon. The dilemma? I don't know which model of saiga to go with. Whatever model I do go with will be fully converted will according to 922 ® requirements, but I have a question about the purpose and Philosophy of Use, or POU, between the rifle and shotgun Saigas.

 

I intend to use the rifle/shotgun at ranges, and possibly while hunting; however, I am generally concerned about which model (rifle or shotgun) would be most effective in a "without rule of law" situation for home and possibly neighborhood defense/patrol.

 

As it is, I've labeled my choice down to either a Saiga .308, or the Saiga 12, but am curious as to which would work 'best' in the event of absence in social order.

 

I know it's a little more than paranoid, but I like to look at the whole picture before buying a new gun. Since I can't buy both, I'd love to hear your opinions and reasoning before my purchase to gain a little more insight.

 

Thanks!

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you'll probably end up getting both after you get one anyways but if your in a suburb type setting i'd stick with the S12 as you'll most likely have plenty of cover to hide behind. i have both and the option of making long shots with a 308 then switching to the 12 under 100 yards is key.

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I stumbled upon this thread on the officer.com police forums this morning. It discusses the use of the remington 870 and ar 15.

 

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119502

 

Keep in mind that they are talking about the 870 not the semi-auto mag fed s12 and that most departments use the .223 not the .308. Just thought a LE perspective would be interesting.

Edited by DOXtheOX
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Get the S 12 for now. You will get other guns later. There will always be a place for the S 12 in home defense etc. The S 12 is fun to shoot. You will have to convert and personalize it, but it is well worth it. A big reason to go with the S 12 for now over the others, ammo. You can get plenty of bird shot and other 12 gauge loads vs other types of ammo in most places.

Edited by Brair
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The S-12 and the S-.308 have no direct analogues. In that order, nothing else available here to even compare to an S-12, and the hard to find and expen$$$ive Veeper is the only competitor for the S-.308. The S-.410 is also alone in it's class. The S.223 and S7.62-39 have several competitors (to their converted configuration) but the Saigas are Russian made in M K's own arsenal and all NEW.

Start with an S-12 then get the S-.308. The rest as you get the $$$ together. That is hard because these things are so much fun that you will drop many $$$ feeding them.

 

Welcome to our addiction!

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Thanks for all the help guys. I think I'll just have to accept that I'll be buying both in due time, lol.

 

A few other approaches though;

 

Concerning ammo, I've found a couple different sites online that sell bulk 308 ammo for relatively cheap (wolf being one of them, a low grain-age practice ammo being the other http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=502766&kwtid=294379) Has anyone had experience with this lower grained ammo? It says the effective range is out to 320 yards and I'd be going around 50-100, though you have to self cycle.

 

Concerning the S-12, DOXtheOX brought up another question in my mind- the Remmington 870. I know the main appeal of the Saiga is that it's fully automatic, but is the reliability on par with pump action shotguns? Also, a friend who has had an... encounter with a home invader informed me the main appeal of the pump actions is that the sound of it loading that first round; he said it caused the intruder to basically crap his pants- and rightly so! I know the 'sound issue' is not that big of a deal, especially with what you gain from high-capacity mags, but it's a subject of curiosity for me.

 

Thank you everyone for your feedback, and for breaking the news to me that I'm going to be hopelessly addicted :lolol:

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I came to this site looking to get a .308 saiga only. (Poor Man's Dragunov) And now I have saigas in:

 

7.62x39

12ga

12ga

30-06

.308

 

You can buy only one.... but then you'll come back and buy ONLY one more.... and only one more.

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Also, is $500 (shipping paid by seller) a good deal on a S-12 with about 50 rounds through it?

 

What would be a decent pricing on the 308- Prices on GB are set from 550-800; is this a little too much?

 

 

As far as prices go, I've seen them go brand new on gunbroker (recently) for $515 or so. However, 50 rounds is meaningless in terms of use.

 

I have at least 2000 rounds through mine and it just gets better with use. I can't imagine that you will EVER wear it out.

 

You might have to tinker with it to get it the way you want it.

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Thanks for all the help guys. I think I'll just have to accept that I'll be buying both in due time, lol.

 

A few other approaches though;

 

Concerning ammo, I've found a couple different sites online that sell bulk 308 ammo for relatively cheap (wolf being one of them, a low grain-age practice ammo being the other http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=502766&kwtid=294379) Has anyone had experience with this lower grained ammo? It says the effective range is out to 320 yards and I'd be going around 50-100, though you have to self cycle.

 

Concerning the S-12, DOXtheOX brought up another question in my mind- the Remmington 870. I know the main appeal of the Saiga is that it's fully automatic, but is the reliability on par with pump action shotguns? Also, a friend who has had an... encounter with a home invader informed me the main appeal of the pump actions is that the sound of it loading that first round; he said it caused the intruder to basically crap his pants- and rightly so! I know the 'sound issue' is not that big of a deal, especially with what you gain from high-capacity mags, but it's a subject of curiosity for me.

 

Thank you everyone for your feedback, and for breaking the news to me that I'm going to be hopelessly addicted :lolol:

 

The sound of racking the bolt in the Saiga is plenty "Oops I crapped my pants" inducing. My dogs hauled ass while I was hand cycling to test my promags.

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My dogs hauled ass while I was hand cycling to test my promags.

 

So funny! I can just picture that. Can you say "gun shy"?

 

SalmonKing, the .308 has always struck me as either a "wide open spaces" hunting cartridge or fodder for a full-up battle rifle. I'd be afraid to use one for defense or patrol in a settled area. Too much reach. Unless you're out in the boonies somewhere, the S-12 would make more sense for your stated use.

 

Maybe you should take another look at the smaller rifle calibers. The x39 would be the better man-stopper, but might still have too much penetration around dwellings. The .223 loaded with lightweight (50-55gr.) soft-point bullets would be better as the bullet would blow up before penetrating very far; but it would give you more reach and precision than a shotgun. Either caliber would be cheaper to shoot than the .308

Bob

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Get the S 12 for now. You will get other guns later. There will always be a place for the S 12 in home defense etc. The S 12 is fun to shoot. You will have to convert and personalize it, but it is well worth it. A big reason to go with the S 12 for now over the others, ammo. You can get plenty of bird shot and other 12 gauge loads vs other types of ammo in most places.

 

+1

 

..and +1 to what obake said. There'll be no doubt when you rack that bolt for the first time.

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I know the main appeal of the Saiga is that it's fully automatic, but is the reliability on par with pump action shotguns?

 

It's a semi and it is reliable with MOST ammo. There might be a brand or two that will make it barf so make a note of it and avoid them. When you've run a few hundred rounds through the weapon, try the ammo again. Breaking in the gun helps.

 

BTW I started out with the .308. I haven't found ammo that thing WON'T eat.

 

A few months later, I got an S-12. When you rack the bolt on the s-12 it is loud and it means business. The sound my Winchester Defender makes is almost wimpy compared to the s-12.

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Great advice guys, and thanks for the massive amounts of help and input. I'm going for the S-12 at the moment; just waiting for the right price. I'll post pics after conversion- so now the next question. Should I donate my Kidney, or bone marrow for conversion funds :rolleyes: ?

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Should I donate my Kidney, or bone marrow for conversion funds :rolleyes: ?

 

IMO, conversions are cheap compared to the cost of trying to feed these damn things . . .

 

Welcome to the addiction . . .

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