Help me not to ruin my saiga

[JT1911 0]

I've been looking for nice .223 rifle to plink with for quite sometime but I don't want to take out a second mortgage to do it, so an AR is out. I never payed the saiga .223 much mind as I really don't like the look of them but after bumping around this forum and seeing all the conversions, I'm thinking a saiga .223 is definitely the way to go.

 

I'm hoping to get a 16" saiga .223 and add a pistol grip/new stock conversion with a different fore-end.( I'm in Kali, so I also would need a radlock) But I'm a complete newb and not the most handy of persons. How hard/difficult/ is converting a saiga .223? Being a complete newb, I can very easily see me ruining the rifle.

 

Would it be better to just install the dragunov style skeletonized stock for the saiga instead of doing the conversion and just install a different fore-end?

 

I'm sorry being such a newb but I could really use a lot of help. Hard to get anything nice here in Kali in general and add to that for folks like me who can't drop a lot, it makes it nearly impossible.

 

Thanks you Saiga forum.

[elvis christ 451]

If you can use a hand drill and a punch, you can do it yourself. Check on youtube for a saiga conversion tutorial. That's a good place to start.

[PRISONSHANK 70]

try out this step-by-step walk through:

 

.223 conversion

 

then i'd suggest checking out Dinzag's site to start getting familiar with the parts you'll need.

Edited April 28, 2009 by PRISONSHANK

[JT1911 0]

Thank you for the responses.

 

So would you say to do the conversion is something pretty easy and the risk of ruining the gun is minimal, even for a unhandy newb?

 

 

Also, just to walk through the 922 thing with you all to make sure I understand.

 

 

So in the original config, the Saiga comes with 14 foreign parts but it is in a sporting config.

 

If I want to add a pistol grip to the gun or a skeletonized stock like the one pictured, it changes it to an unsporting config and I would need to drop the part count down to 10 or less. So with the skeletonized stock, I would need to switch out 5 parts and with the pistol grip, I would need to change out 4 parts. And of course being here in Kali, I can only have 10 round mags and would need a maglock like a radlock.

 

Did I miss anything?

[elvis christ 451]

The stock you posted is a factory stock, it came on some of the .223 rifles. It doesn't affect the configuration of the gun.

[JT1911 0]

The stock you posted is a factory stock, it came on some of the .223 rifles. It doesn't affect the configuration of the gun.

 

 

Really!

 

Even though the thumb hole type stock is considered a pistol grip, it is still a sporting config?

 

So I can get a saiga .223 in 16", add this skeletonized stock to it, and in Kali that is considered a pistol grip, so I add a radlock to make it good but according to 922 it is good because it is still in sporting config, so no need to change out parts?

[DOXtheOX 1]

I'd say walk through a couple of the tutorials, youtube videos and picture tutorials. Do a search, there are plenty. Once you've gone through a couple you'll have an idea of your comfort level in being able to duplicate what you've seen.

If you don't feel comfortable doing it the stock pictured only requires a screw driver, not a full conversion.

Don't be shy with the gun, they are used world wide by little mud boys in stick huts. You'd have to do a lot of screwing around to mess it up.

[nalioth 405]

The stock you posted is a factory stock, it came on some of the .223 rifles. It doesn't affect the configuration of the gun.

 

 

Really!

 

Even though the thumb hole type stock is considered a pistol grip, it is still a sporting config?

 

So I can get a saiga .223 in 16", add this skeletonized stock to it, and in Kali that is considered a pistol grip, so I add a radlock to make it good but according to 922 it is good because it is still in sporting config, so no need to change out parts?

You see, this is where the revenuers start spreading the confusion.

 

They've ruled that the factory Saiga skeleton stock is "sporting" because the pistol grip isn't directly attached to the receiver.

 

Check out this post and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[JT1911 0]

Thanks for the link but I must have missed where they said anything about ruling that the factory Saiga skeleton stock is "sporting" because the pistol grip isn't directly attached to the receiver.

 

But I did take away that a conversion seems to be easy and nothing to be afraid of(Yes?) and also that the conversion helps a lot with shootability in terms of ergonomics and trigger pull(Yes?)

 

So if just adding on the skeletonized stock with a radlock makes it legal in Kali, it still would not be as nice to shoot as a full conversion?

 

Thank you again for all help and sorry for all the newb and I'm sure repeated questions. I'm trying to read up at the same time to hopefully minimize but hard to find the answers in explicit terms. Thanks

Edited April 28, 2009 by JT1911

[GregM1 241]

i used this video for my conversion. it helped me a lot. no sound, but some text when needed.

 

http://www.vimeo.com/2787027

[JT1911 0]

Thanks greg for the help. I'll give it a shot.

 

Bump on my question for the skeletonized stock.

 

And Most importantly,

 

Looking to get a Saiga Model IZ 114 for $440 and with shipping and fees it will be $525 before tax. This a good buy? I know with some guns the model make a difference. Hoping for a quick reply as I want to buy soon.

[nalioth 405]

Thanks for the link but I must have missed where they said anything about ruling that the factory Saiga skeleton stock is "sporting" because the pistol grip isn't directly attached to the receiver.

 

But I did take away that a conversion seems to be easy and nothing to be afraid of(Yes?) and also that the conversion helps a lot with shootability in terms of ergonomics and trigger pull(Yes?)

 

So if just adding on the skeletonized stock with a radlock makes it legal in Kali, it still would not be as nice to shoot as a full conversion?

 

Thank you again for all help and sorry for all the newb and I'm sure repeated questions. I'm trying to read up at the same time to hopefully minimize but hard to find the answers in explicit terms. Thanks

Nobody has ever officially said anything.

 

The point is: The Saigas are imported and sold in this country with this skeleton stock, ergo, the revenuers see them as "sporting". If they weren't "sporting", they would not be allowed to be imported this way.

 

We can only compare the Saiga skeleton stocks and regular Kalashnikovs to try to figure out why this is so, and came up with the above reason.

Edited April 28, 2009 by nalioth

[DOXtheOX 1]

Converting the gun back to its original configuration puts the trigger group back to the way it was designed and puts the balance back in check, depending on what parts you use.

So yes it will make it nicer to shoot.

 

That is a good price.

[JT1911 0]

Okay, I think I'm going to go for this.

 

All in all, with fees, tax, cost, etc, the cost of the gun will be like $580 for a solid rifle. Around here, friggin mini 14s are over $800.

 

So I was thinking of getting the poly tri-rail for it and saving up for a conversion.

 

Last question if everything thus far sounds good to you all.

 

Does dimpled and non-make any noticeable difference or don't worry about it?

[nalioth 405]

Okay, I think I'm going to go for this.

 

All in all, with fees, tax, cost, etc, the cost of the gun will be like $580 for a solid rifle. Around here, friggin mini 14s are over $800.

 

So I was thinking of getting the poly tri-rail for it and saving up for a conversion.

 

Last question if everything thus far sounds good to you all.

 

Does dimpled and non-make any noticeable difference or don't worry about it?

 

If your lady friend wears mascara or doesnt, does it make any difference?

 

 

It's purely cosmetic.

[JT1911 0]

Okay good to know.

 

Someone was telling me that the non-dimpled ones had some magazine rattling or something.

[nalioth 405]

Okay good to know.

 

Someone was telling me that the non-dimpled ones had some magazine rattling or something.

Well, not to put such a fine point on it, but ALL Kalashnikovs have 'mag rattle' to some extent.

 

 

I suspect someone was talking about a Romanian WASR that had been ravaged by drunk monkeys.

 

 

Saigas do not have such issues as the WASR.

[GregM1 241]

i did my first saiga conversion last week. i did it on my own using things from the internet. the only trouble i had was trying all the different ways to put the bolt hold open lever spring in. I eventually came up with my own way that was simpler for me. i may have just misunderstood the other peoples directions. all in all though, i was done in under 3 hours and that was while i was watching tv at the same time. i had never done gun work of any type before. i do have tool skills though.

 

i had the RAA skeleton stock on prior to my pistol grip. That stock is wonderful if you dont plan to convert the trigger set up. Its very solid and the pad is spring loaded to move in and out of position quickly and quietly. The paper work that came with it counts it only as 1 piece.

 

If you are familiar with handtools, converting is nothing to be afraid of. Gunsmithing isnt required unless you just want to be lazy and patient.

Edited April 29, 2009 by GregM1

[GregM1 241]

I suspect someone was talking about a Romanian WASR that had been ravaged by drunk monkeys.

 

they had one of those here at the pawn shop near my house in north houston. i picked it up and it almost fell apart or so it felt.

[JT1911 0]

Well, I just bought the saiga .223. I bought it online, so I'm sure it will be a bit before it comes but I'm excited.

 

I'm pretty much set on converting it when it comes and adding the tri-rail fore-end to it. I'm trying to keep costs low and judging by what I'm reading, I'm hoping to be able to do it all for under $800.

[mstranglr 9]

After a while, you will end up ripping that rad-lock out. Mag locks basically take away the rifles utility as a defensive and/or training weapon. Almost NONE of the tactical carbine instructors in California allow Bullet buttons or rad-locks in their classes because critical incident mag changes are not really possible, the basically reduce your rifle to a conversation piece.

 

I have bullet buttons on some of my collector rifles that I seldom shoot, but have MM grips on the ones I plan to use. My advise is to just get a solid US made AK stock (like the K-var stock) and use a monsterman grip. It takes a little getting used to, but even the professionals agree that manipulation is just as fast as a regular pistol grip. Plus, the MM grip will allow you to use your pre-ban high cap magazines, and if you travel or train out-of-state it only takes a minute to change the MM grip out for a pistol grip. It is a PITA to swap out a rad-lock.

 

I would do the conversion, add the MM grip, and attend the "Saiga rifle gunfighting" class that Suarez International is doing in LA this September to learn how to run the AK platform.

 

A couple of Cali legal training rifles:

 

 

Edited April 29, 2009 by desert dog

[JT1911 0]

Thanks for the advice dessert dog. Something definitely to think about.

[nalioth 405]

Thanks for the advice dessert dog. Something definitely to think about.

Do you know something we don't know?

[JT1911 0]

Thanks for the advice dessert dog. Something definitely to think about.

Do you know something we don't know?

 

Woops. He he, that looks bad . . .