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Twinsen

Why should you convert your Saiga?

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Don't be afraid to do it yourself, it really is something you could do yourself. You are grinding the end off of two rivet pins and pushing them out, then letting parts fall out. Then you push new parts in. There's no measuring or cutting or anything that would take any effort or know-how.

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I try to push my way through doors even when it says "Pull" right near the handle........and even I managed 2 conversions (7.62x39 and 12ga).

 

:super_man:

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I think I am one of the guys who really wants the mod but will never have it. I have never done anything like this and am not confident in my ability to do it. I am in Charleston WV and cant find anyone in my area who will do it. The only gunsmith who does these kinds of things had never even heard of the gun. Im upset because I really want this mod. Other than that I love my 2 hole s12. I will keep reading until I learn everything that goes into this. how much is an already converted s12. It was nearly impossible to even find my sporter. frustrated!

 

If you have access to youtube, can borrow a dremel tool with a cutting wheel (from Home Depot?), and can afford to spend $6 on a set of punches two bits (and a zip tie) to go with the hammer and drill your grandpa gave you, then you can convert your gun in about an hour.

 

I spoke to a guy at Mississippi Auto Arms, told him I wanted to convert, and I had the parts in a couple of days.

 

If I can do it, anyone can. It is a lot of fun and very rewarding.

 

 

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I think I am one of the guys who really wants the mod but will never have it. I have never done anything like this and am not confident in my ability to do it. I am in Charleston WV and cant find anyone in my area who will do it. The only gunsmith who does these kinds of things had never even heard of the gun. Im upset because I really want this mod. Other than that I love my 2 hole s12. I will keep reading until I learn everything that goes into this. how much is an already converted s12. It was nearly impossible to even find my sporter. frustrated!

 

If you have access to youtube, can borrow a dremel tool with a cutting wheel (from Home Depot?), and can afford to spend $6 on a set of punches two bits (and a zip tie) to go with the hammer and drill your grandpa gave you, then you can convert your gun in about an hour.

 

I spoke to a guy at Mississippi Auto Arms, told him I wanted to convert, and I had the parts in a couple of days.

 

If I can do it, anyone can. It is a lot of fun and very rewarding.

 

 

ok i am new here and just bought my first saiga 12 IZ-109 two days ago. I want to do the trigger conversion to add the pistol grip but what parts do i exactly need and where do i get them?......Does anyone have pictures of what i need and is there any instructions for this conversion. Last i live in phoenix az is anyone from here that would be able to assist me with the conversion.

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I think I am one of the guys who really wants the mod but will never have it. I have never done anything like this and am not confident in my ability to do it. I am in Charleston WV and cant find anyone in my area who will do it. The only gunsmith who does these kinds of things had never even heard of the gun. Im upset because I really want this mod. Other than that I love my 2 hole s12. I will keep reading until I learn everything that goes into this. how much is an already converted s12. It was nearly impossible to even find my sporter. frustrated!

 

If you have access to youtube, can borrow a dremel tool with a cutting wheel (from Home Depot?), and can afford to spend $6 on a set of punches two bits (and a zip tie) to go with the hammer and drill your grandpa gave you, then you can convert your gun in about an hour.

 

I spoke to a guy at Mississippi Auto Arms, told him I wanted to convert, and I had the parts in a couple of days.

 

If I can do it, anyone can. It is a lot of fun and very rewarding.

 

 

ok i am new here and just bought my first saiga 12 IZ-109 two days ago. I want to do the trigger conversion to add the pistol grip but what parts do i exactly need and where do i get them?......Does anyone have pictures of what i need and is there any instructions for this conversion. Last i live in phoenix az is anyone from here that would be able to assist me with the conversion.

 

Like I said, call one of the vendors, I called Mississippi Auto Arms (3 times to get someone to answer), and they will send you the pre-ground trigger set, shepherd's crook, whatever stock you select, trigger guard, and whatever pistol grip you select. I went with the Tapco Saw grip, Tromix guard, Tapco trigger, and Mako adjustable shock absorber stock. Also better buy an assload of mags while you can get them! I went with Surefire. And might as well get this forend from Saiga12.com http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=45689 and the gunfixr plug too: http://www.mdarms.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1724

 

Go to Home Depot and buy or borrow the cheapest Dremel tool as it comes with a cutter. Get a punch set, drill, can of flat black spray paint, a zip tie, and the two drill bits.

 

Go here for an absurd amount of help: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showforum=64

and here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=40886

I used this video ( of zillions) for conversion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU96VbnSoTc

This for a diagram on the Shepherd's crook assembly: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=42526

Then this for reassembly:

 

See the Waterboy? You can do it!

Edited by Ragnar Danneskjöld
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The best reason I can think of to convert is one that I have not seeen posted on this forum. It is this. Only with the trigger moved forward, and a pistol grip installed, can one obtain a safe, fast, and effective tactical index that has the trigger finger on the safety, both in the sul position and the low-ready position.

 

That is, of course, unless you are an orangutang or concert pianist. You know what they say, big hands...big gloves?

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Some states, I know Connecticut and New York are in this group, still have elements of the 1994 gun ban in their state laws. They say that any semi auto magazine fed shotgun cannot have a pistol grip below the receiver of the gun. Ruins your plans I bet. Well it didn't ruin mine. You can put on a one piece skeleton stock or thumbhole stock to get around that and still get great ergonomics.

 

End Quote.

 

What is your source of info on this?

 

I read that the atf declared skeletons and thumbholes are in fact pistol grips.

 

I really hope what I read is wrong, and you are right as I want to do my S-12 with a dragunov stock but have to comply with NY's stupid laws!

:(

Edited by Black_Wolf

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Some states, I know Connecticut and New York are in this group, still have elements of the 1994 gun ban in their state laws. They say that any semi auto magazine fed shotgun cannot have a pistol grip below the receiver of the gun. Ruins your plans I bet. Well it didn't ruin mine. You can put on a one piece skeleton stock or thumbhole stock to get around that and still get great ergonomics.

 

End Quote.

 

What is your source of info on this?

 

I read that the atf declared skeletons and thumbholes are in fact pistol grips.

 

I really hope what I read is wrong, and you are right as I want to do my S-12 with a dragunov stock but have to comply with NY's stupid laws!

:(

 

The ATF is a federal agency, for one. And if that was true, everybody that bought a thumbhole stocked gun during the AWB was in some shit! I doubt that highly though.

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Just got my saiga 12 in this evening. Very excited to get to know the workings of the weapon. Thanks for the confidence booster on conversion, really helpful information!THANKS AGAIN

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

AND AGAIN :electric_shock:

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Does anyone cut the dust cover on the recoil spring? I saw one conversion were they cut that little dust cover so it wouldnt rub the bolt carrier.

 

I did not do this, but my S-12 was a recent version. Maybe it is necesssary for older versions? How old is the set of instructiions, and how old is you weapon?

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Modern Warfare, I must ask that you please cease and desist using an animated gif of my wife as your avatar.

Edited by Ragnar Danneskjöld
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OK, I am planning on doing this in the upcoming week. I understand that I need a 3/8" and a 3/16" drill bit, right? I have a cobalt 3/8". Is this what is needed to go through the receiver? I heard that saigas are made out of "some hard shit"

 

The main thing to keep in mind when drilling / machining is the cutter speed

 

Excess speed will work harden the part to the point it's harder than the cutter, by that time the drill is dull and useless.

 

Try to keep small drills..1/32 to 1/8 below 200-300 RPM Larger drills even slower and use some type of cutting oil.

 

Let the drill do the work, don't push too hard.

 

Saiga recievr material acually cuts very nice but works hardens in seconds.

 

Happiness is a sharp tool and a ridged setup.

Edited by saigatechusa

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I prefer the "sporting" set up of the Saiga-12 (comb stock configuration over the pistol grip configuration), but had a question before I purchased any so-called "high capacity" magazines.

 

If I replace the forearm guard, gas piston, and add a domestically-produced muzzle brake, would using an American-made "high capacity" magazine comply with 922®? I used the Gunwiki template and it comes up legal since the mag counts as three parts, but I wanted to make sure first.

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Quick question. Converting doesn't have anything to do with say optimization that somebody like cobra does right? so I could send my "sporting" 12 to cobra to have it polished up and whatnot and when the funds provide for a conversion at a later date there shouldn't be any conflict...right?

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I even have more plans for my 24" " semi conversion". Wood Furniture is coming soon. I really like the looks of wood on AKs

 

I have nothing against conversions. I think they are very cool. But it just is not what I bought my S12 for.

I hope you guys forgive me for keeping my S12 in its sporting configuration.

 

Very cool! i'd love to see pictures when it's done. my saiga is still unconverted, but i figured performability is better than comfortabilty. So getting it to shoot any cheap ammo, and stacking mags and ammo up for it is my goal now, i will convert very soon. But for now, i will just enjoy the rugged factory feel until i get the cash to make it a Zombie repellent :devil:

 

very nice write up

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May I ask why you buy the model that needs to be converted?.

Why don´t you go and buy a Saiga 12K, directly?.

It already comes with the pistol grip and the trigger assembly close to the mag release lever.

Why you go through all that?.

The 12K is only $100 over the retail price of the regular one.

Excuse me if I´m wrong. I live outside the US.

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On converting a Saiga, it's your gun, you can do (or not do) anything you want to it. I bought mine for home defense, and I'd really like to have a pistol grip configuration for it, so I will be converting it.

 

The con that was forgotten is that if there were ever a ban, you'd be SOL. Or you'd have to spend more money to convert it back, which may not be possible in some cases. If you're afraid of a ban, but still want a pistol grip, the Tapco or ACE stock is the way to go. Let's just hope these bans stop.

 

May I ask why you buy the model that needs to be converted?.

Why don´t you go and buy a Saiga 12K, directly?.

It already comes with the pistol grip and the trigger assembly close to the mag release lever.

Why you go through all that?.

The 12K is only $100 over the retail price of the regular one.

Excuse me if I´m wrong. I live outside the US.

 

To my knowledge, the 12K cannot be imported into the US. It has to be in a sporting configuration to be 922r compliant.

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New guy here from CA and just bought a Saiga 12 and now waiting my 10 days till pickup :).

 

Being in CA I just wanted to make sure the conversion is legal? I was going to order this conversion kit:

Saiga 12 Pistol Grip Conversion Kit w TAPCO AK Original Stock from Mississippi Auto Arms.

 

I know being in CA I'll also have to put a bullet button on the Saiga.

 

Anyone here from CA confirm that they have done this and have any pictures :)

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Well here is all that I ordered :)

 

1 GUNFIXERS IMPROVED GAS PLUG SAIGA 12 ADJUSTMENT KNOB

1 CONVERSION KIT #1 SAIGA 12 BLACK

1 SAIGA 12 EXTENDED QUAD RAIL

1 FOREARM RAIL COVERS TAPCO 5 PACK SET- BLACK

1 SAIGA 12 PHOENIX FLAME DOOR BREACH

1 RECOIL PAD FOR AK ORIGINAL STYLE STOCK

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I converted mine before I ever fired it! :super:

I've built a few AK's from a de-milled parts kit and a nodak receiver so I've had a little experience fighting the FCG into position! Then I learned about the flattened version of the shepherd's hook and the use of a zip tie to hold it all together while inserting and life was wonderful again!

I've built a couple Polish under folders and a Romy "G".

The G was for the little woman...She loves it.

(This is where I should add that I had zero knowledge of AK's or building them until I spent a ton of time researching and lurking other forums prior to these builds)

 

I'd been looking at the Saiga 12's for a long time, wanting one and waiting for a smoking deal to come my way.

I'm a member of the Washington arms collectors and I go to their shows/sales almost every month.

For about three years I never once saw a S-12 in the show so I was getting a little discouraged then I finally found a guy selling them brand new in the box for $430.

That was a fair price for what I was seeing on line so I called the little woman to get the final "Okee Dokee" (we were down to one income at the time) she said "Well haven't you been searching for one for a couple years?....Yeah, buy it" !!!

 

The first thing I did was find this forum in a quick Google search because the forum I frequent for the AK's doesn't have near the info on the S-12's as this one.

I researched the conversion from MANY threads and linked videos and then lurked for weeks, reading all the pros and cons regarding suppliers for the conversion parts.

I chose Greg at Carolina Shooters Supply (Hands down, awesome guy and a great help)

I now have close to $1100 (probably more!) into the gun in parts and initial purchase but I have done all the work myself...

It runs flawless....Now THAT's the real reward.

I did it and it's perfect!

 

Conversion...

 

M-4 style Magpul stock

Saw pistol grip

Tromix trigger guard

Tromix reworked G-2 FCG

reduced recoil spring

Gunfixer's gas plug

CSS AR style aluminum forend

Extended mag release

E-Tac twister puck

JTE competition brake (with nut)

Surefire Mags.

 

After a ton MORE reading (and more lurking here) I was able to pull off a real nice bolt/carrier polish job so that everything moves like ball bearings in there.

A little more polish on the FCG and I have a trigger that's "Hot knife through butter" smooth. :D

 

I'm still looking towards either a magwell extension or the "Rock and Lock" ramp...I haven't decided which way I want to go yet. :rolleyes:

I need to get some pictures of it soon if anybody's interested!.

Lance.

 

This is a bad picture taken about halfway through my build...

 

50b853ad.jpg

 

Some others I built...

 

stuff025.jpg

 

RomySidefolder.jpg

 

Marisbuild.jpg

 

Love the web sight...good bunch of folks and good info.

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As far as how it improves your gun, yes, those benefits are the same. The trigger on all of these guns is funky in order to be imported legally.

 

But as far as I know, California is the only state where a converted Saiga rifle would be illegal. In CT, 7.62x39 AKs are illegal in any form, but .223 and .308 ones can be bought and converted.

 

I believe for 922r compliance you need to replace the FCG with the 3 American parts, and:

~Replace 2 of the following with American parts: pistol grip, hand guard, stock, muzzle device

or

~Use only American magazines

 

Saiga rifles are perfectly OK as imported. A converted Saiga will need to have a maglock if you run a pistol grip in CA. All Saiga shotguns must have a maglock to be legally imported into California. There is other grip options that have been developed in CA. If somebody lives in a state that has draconion like laws as we do, you might want to check out calguns.net for info and ideas as to work within the laws of your state and have everything you want.

 

As far as how it improves your gun, yes, those benefits are the same. The trigger on all of these guns is funky in order to be imported legally.

 

But as far as I know, California is the only state where a converted Saiga rifle would be illegal. In CT, 7.62x39 AKs are illegal in any form, but .223 and .308 ones can be bought and converted.

 

I believe for 922r compliance you need to replace the FCG with the 3 American parts, and:

~Replace 2 of the following with American parts: pistol grip, hand guard, stock, muzzle device

or

~Use only American magazines

 

 

Not true. In CA we have adopted the "Mag Lock" for all of our rifle with evil features. If you have to use a tool to drop the magazine it is no longer considered detachable. We just can't have more than a 10 round mag attached to said evil rifle or it is then an assault rifle.

 

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:

(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:

(A) A folding or telescoping stock.

(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

 

 

Yep this is true, but I'll give you an idea as to how dumb our laws are in California. The 10+ round mag restriction on maglocked guns only applies to centerfire rifles and pistols that have mags outside of the magwell. So if there was a way to legally obtain a MD20 drum, you can legally use that in a Saiga 12. Dumb fuckin laws....I know.

 

This will sound redundant, but is everyone sure u cant put a pistol grip on the saiga if u live in CT? i kno u can use a stock/grip combo type thing but is their anyway else around this?? thanks

 

Either go without a pistol grip, or use one of the magazine releases that requires a tool. "mag locks"

 

 

 

Thank you, and so ur sure the mag locks are legal in CT? and any confirmation on wether the thumbhole or skeleton stocks with the grip basically on them are legal in CT also? thanks again i appreciate the help.

 

Mag locks though, change the gun from one that "can accept detachable magazines" to one that doesn't. So you can have one more evil feature. However, then you have to deal with the "more than 5 round fixed magazine" evil feature. IMO it isn't worth doing.

 

I cannot say with all certainty that anything is perfectly legal. Court precedent can determine a lot, and I don't know it all. So I'll continue to assume that the thumbholes are legal here, as there is no written law saying they aren't. In California, there IS such written law.

This is where you need to push the line a bit. Get some mag locks and fire off opinion letters to CT DOJ. If the laws aren't challanged you will never find out how far you can go.

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Ok, I took some real pictures!

Why convert?

Why not!

 

001.jpg

004.jpg

005.jpg

 

What kind\where did ya get that cool foregrip? and flashlight setup....

Edited by Saiga Power

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