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Why should you convert your Saiga?

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Hello

 

I have Saiga in .223. I wanted to put nice wood stock (not thumbhole) and what goes after the trigger, gas tube, detachable mag, pistol grip, etc. Obviously it will make the gun look like an AK47 (CT illegal), so I called ATF/BATFE Hartford Headquaters Office at 1-860-240-3400 and spoke with Mr. Peter Belanger.

I told him what I wanted to do, and that my gun would look like AK47, so he said that as long as I do not change the lenght of the barrel, and do not make it into full automatic weapon I will be GOOD. He said by Federal Law it's ok, ATF it's ok. And then he told me to call some local dealers to ask what they think about legality, so I did. My best dealer (valleyfirearms.com) said that if the guy from ATF said it is ok, then it is OK. Of course all Made in USA for 922r!

 

Here is what I bought from carolinashooterssupply.com Greg there is an awesome salesman! He told what I need besides the stock (LOL).

 

1 TRIGGER GUARD-BOLT ON "ROUNDED" @ $17.95 = $17.95

1 TRIGGER GROUP-SAIGA RIFLE MODIFIED FIRE CONTROL GROUP @ $50.00 = $50.00

1 TRIGGER GROUP HOLE PLUGS FOR SAIGA CONVERSIONS @ $1.00 = $1.00

1 WOOD STOCK SET AK-47, SAIGA RIFLE- BROWN LAMINATE @ $110.50 = $110.50

1 GAS TUBE FOR AK47'S AND SAIGA RIFLES @ $30.00 = $30.00

1 HANDGUARD RETAINING LOWER BRACKET @ $34.95 = $34.95

1 Saiga 223 30rd Magazine @ $28.95 = $28.95

 

When I am done I will post the picture. Thanks and please share Your thoughts!

Edited by MikePLconnecticut

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*Wave* Lurking a while, figured I'd finally post now that I have gotten around to buying the parts for a conversion of my S12.

 

Should I take it to a gunsmith, or should I do it myself? I consider myself mechanically inclined, but by no means a master of metal working.

 

 

 

Also, man. I plan to keep my conversion pretty tame once I make sure it's firing right. But now I really want a second S12 to do in wood.

 

I really like the classic "AK" look for a shotgun.

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Once you do this, OR attach a magazine of over 5, at 10, or over 10 round capacity? edit this out later, you are putting your gun in a "non-sporting configuration". This means you have to comply with Federal law 922r. Yes, this means if you saw a gun store with a 12 round Surefire mag in their gun, they were breaking federal law. Seriously. Don't use it until you have the right American made parts in your gun, or you could go to jail. I'm not joking, and I am not mistaken.

 

 

According to a scan of a letter from BATFE that I found on gunwiki (page 1, page 2), attaching a magazine of greater than 5 round capacity would take it out of the "Sporting" category and be in violation of 922®.

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Yeah, I'd edit my post if I could. Maybe I can and I'm just overlooking the button?

 

Holy shit man. Where the hell you been???

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Are there any videos that deal with the conversion process? I'm think I'm going to do this. I'm really dissatisfied with just how long this rifle is. Converted with a side folder would make it very manageable when stored. As it sits now, even with the T6 collapsible stock, it's huge!!!

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Are there any videos that deal with the conversion process? I'm think I'm going to do this. I'm really dissatisfied with just how long this rifle is. Converted with a side folder would make it very manageable when stored. As it sits now, even with the T6 collapsible stock, it's huge!!!

 

Check this out: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=57912

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We're about 9/10's through the conversion process, to include installing a receiver block for a side folder. Wow, this is a bitch :) It's definitely not a 2 hour project. The whole thing is pretty involved. To do it again would probably go much quicker, but I found the learning curve pretty steep. The tolerances are so loose that many of the parts don't just snap in due to alignment issues. I'm looking forward to the reduced size. If we finish today, test fire at the range will be a must.

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In montana we dont have to worry about any of that shit. I took my finished gun too the gun / pawn shop i bought it at and the local pd had 3 cars on one crack head chick when i walked in with it (no case with a 20 in it). Well after the traffic stop all 6 of them had to come in and check it out. They were amazed and had no Idea about sec 922R. Needless to say i bet they all have one now. Cops around hear dont generally worry about those guns becuase they are too expensive for criminls anyway. Speaking of criminal i paid $425 for the junk wraithmaker 30.

 

Oh ya tommygunner why are you on the site if you dont mod?

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i have a saiga .410 and i want to do a lot of things to it, but isnt there some sort of law here in connecticut banning folding stocks and bayonet lugs? what would happen if i got caught with a working folding stock?

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I just wanted to say that I converted mine shortly before January 1st. From the time I began to the time I finished my entire conversion it took me 3 1/2 hours, this includes taking a trip to Wal-Mart to buy a can of flat black rustoleum (I forgot that I'd need it), the paint drying, and about 45 minutes of cussing at a rivet because it just would not drill out only to find that it was spinning... :bag: That also included watching some videos on youtube posted up by CSS about how to assemble and re-install the FCG.

 

So, now that I've done it once, I firmly believe that with all of my tools out and ready to go, I could probably do it in about 45 minutes, I didn't even have a punch set when I did mine!

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Great insight. I just came back from the range. Had my brand new 24" Saiga out for the first time. Had 1oz slugs and 00buck. Bone stock not one hang fire. Shot like a dream that has a happy ending. I load my own so more then likely I won't put the cheaper 7 1/2 shot thru it too much. I did get the Tromix DIY trigger set, a AK Auto plug is on the way. Along with a Tapco Saw grip. Still have not made my mind up on the butt stock? Not going to put a folder on a it with a 24" barrel. Looking real hard at a Choas fore grip rail. This Saiga will mainly be used for Coyote hunting, and any home invader that wishes too try his luck kicking in my front door of my home. It handled my 1oz slugs well. Grouping them at two inches with a smooth bore at 25 yards is more then ok by me. I hear there is a choke for slugs that helps out big time? Do you know were I might be able to order one?

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I didn't even have a punch set when I did mine!

 

Me neither. Nor have I ever used actual punches for assembling any AR lowers. I always just use hex-keys as makeshift punches and it's always worked out just fine. :D

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I just converted my Saiga-12 to 922r. I'm not too mechanically inclined and have very little tools to work with, but I'd just like to say it was worth every penny. My current configuration is Tapco AK synthetic buttstock, Tromix modded FCG and Tapco SAW grip (all black) and JTE mainspring. My only problem was that my drill is a POS and the rivets gave me some problems so I wasn't able to plug the old FCG holes. Overall it took about 4 hours with watching CSS videos on youtube and an extra set of hands. Now I am very confident in my ability to mod Saiga's and with how the trigger came it. The trigger now rivals my custom modded AR-15, it is simply superb. I'd like to thank my friend's Eric, Desiree and Greg Queen from CSS for all their support and patience.

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Finally got my hands on a new saiga 12 but being in CT I can't put a pistol grip on it!!! the threaded barrel and detachable Mag put me at my assault limit!!!!

 

My 308 on the other hand, converted and love it..

Edited by DaveinCT

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What kind\where did ya get that cool foregrip? and flashlight setup....

I picked it up at the local gun show and as far as the brand goes... I don't know, sorry.

It's not going to remain on the gun though.

I'm still undecided as to whether or not I like the looks of it but the quality and durability is VERY questionable!

 

All the rest of the parts were purchased from Greg at CSS.

I will still be adding a forward bolt-on sight, mainly for the look because let's face it...

This thing is made for aiming in the general direction of your target and squeezing off cartridge after cartridge ontil the target is obliterated!

Who needs sights for that! :up:

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I've been debating over attempting a conversion for a long time. I know I can drill and punch the rivets but frankly I'm not sure I could reassemble the FCG.

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I've been debating over attempting a conversion for a long time. I know I can drill and punch the rivets but frankly I'm not sure I could reassemble the FCG.

 

The FCG was a slight pain to reassemble, but only took about 20% of the total time of my conversion job. Everything took me a bit longer than I expected, but no single part kicked my ass.

 

I'd say go for it. Good vids at CSS (Carolina supply) and some other places you can find. Trust me, you'll figure it out. Definitely not brain surgery. Oh, I did use the "dental floss trick." You can look that up on youtube too...(it helped)

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I've been debating over attempting a conversion for a long time. I know I can drill and punch the rivets but frankly I'm not sure I could reassemble the FCG.

 

The FCG was a slight pain to reassemble, but only took about 20% of the total time of my conversion job. Everything took me a bit longer than I expected, but no single part kicked my ass.

 

I'd say go for it. Good vids at CSS (Carolina supply) and some other places you can find. Trust me, you'll figure it out. Definitely not brain surgery. Oh, I did use the "dental floss trick." You can look that up on youtube too...(it helped)

 

Decided I'm going to go for it as soon as CSS has the Tromix FCG back in stock :super:

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Convert because its bad ass!

 

I was going to say it makes a part of your body grow larger... like watches and monster trucks...lol

 

Convert and it will make you happy, everytime you shoot as well when you look at it

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I've been debating over attempting a conversion for a long time. I know I can drill and punch the rivets but frankly I'm not sure I could reassemble the FCG.

 

Just do it! I just did my 1st conversion last week with only a dril and a Leatherman multi-tool. The hardest part is getting the BHO spring back on, but even that is a piece of cake once you figure it out.

 

001-4.jpg

 

Many thanks to this board and to CSS for the great products and the informative vids.

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Just for the record.....

 

CovertedVersusUnconvertedSaiga6.jpg

 

 

And yes, it IS 922R compliant.

Edited by Corbin
  • Like 2

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Mine is being converted as we "speak".:super:

 

 

I was going to do it myself but I just can't take the time right now, so I am letting a pro do it.

 

 

FTS

 

PICS TO FOLLOW......

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Well, now, depends on what you want. It is not true to the AK design to keep it that way-that's one thing. I understand if you don't care. But the real reason you will want to convert is because it will most definitely be faster on the trigger. In a real gunfight you may need that. Hope it never gets to that tho'.

 

 

Intro:

Your Saiga is made in the same plant, by the same people, and on the same lines as all Russian AK's. The 74's, the AKMs, the 100 series, etc, are all made at Izhmash, the Russian factory where Mr. Kalashnikov still works. Yes, the man that designed the AK-47 still works there. Now look on the side of your gun, it says Izhmash on it and has their arrow in a triangle symbol. Now is when you can crack an evil smile.

 

Importation/Legality:

In order to be imported into this country, it had to be neutered. It had to be in "sporting configuration" to be importable by law. That is why all the cool guns are made in the United States, or imported in a neutered form, or totally unavailable. The Saiga is only imported at this time, so they all start out with a conventional stock manner, which is NOT the way they are supposed to be configured. They put a plate over the trigger hole on the bottom of your receiver. Underneath that plate is the trigger, which has the lever part where your finger would go removed, it is just the mechanical portion of it left behind. So your trigger/sear, disconnector, and hammer are all in place where they should be. The problem is that the trigger you actually pull is connected to a bar... and that bar pulls the actual trigger. Ridiculous? OH YEAH. But it is how they have to import them thanks to our laws. It is 100% legal by Federal law to "convert" your Saiga to regular AK setup, which is quite easy to do. It is just removal of two pins, and your fire control group, which just slide in and out. The pins you need to remove are rivets though, so you have to grind their ends off to push them out. Then you need to get a trigger guard, either screw on or weld on, and put on your new furniture.

 

Some states, I know Connecticut and New York are in this group, still have elements of the 1994 gun ban in their state laws. They say that any semi auto magazine fed shotgun cannot have a pistol grip below the receiver of the gun. Ruins your plans I bet. Well it didn't ruin mine. You can put on a one piece skeleton stock or thumbhole stock to get around that and still get great ergonomics.

 

Once you do this, OR attach a magazine of over 5, at 10, or over 10 round capacity? edit this out later, you are putting your gun in a "non-sporting configuration". This means you have to comply with Federal law 922r. Yes, this means if you saw a gun store with a 12 round Surefire mag in their gun, they were breaking federal law. Seriously. Don't use it until you have the right American made parts in your gun, or you could go to jail. I'm not joking, and I am not mistaken.

 

922r:

This law states that you cannot have more than 10 imported parts within a list of parts that are important. Check this website for easy check on this:

922r worksheet: http://www.thegunwik...erifyCompliance

 

If you want to use higher capacity magazines on your Saiga shotgun, you have to replace other parts to make it legal by Federal law. Might as well convert, buddy. You're going to be replacing stuff anyway.

 

Ok, that's all well and good... but WHY SHOULD I CONVERT?

 

Upside:

~Removes complication from your fire control group.

~Improves every aspect of trigger pull. You get lighter pull, less friction, better feel, less slack, etc etc etc. Pulling a trigger rather than pulling a lever that tilts a bar that pulls the real trigger isn't the best setup.

~Puts the gun in the configuration that was intended.

~Improves ergonomics.

~Cuts the length of your gun by 4-5 inches. You also get to pick your Length of Pull by choosing from all the AK stocks in the world, which vary from American use (long) to Asian use (short).

~Puts the center of gravity closer to your body, making the gun more controllable.

~It will point better.

~It will aim faster.

~Recoil will be handled better.

~Some find a pistol grip makes getting back on target much easier and faster. I am one of those. So is every military on the planet.

~You get to use high capacity magazines such as the MD-20 20 round drum with no legality issues from the Federal government.

~If you do it yourself, you'll get some pride and a detailed knowledge of how everything works.

~You get in the secret club. We'll teach you the handshake later.

~And finally, chicks dig it.

 

 

Downside:

~The parts do cost money.

~The labor either costs money or your own time.

~There are only two downsides.

~Stop looking for a downside.

Hello men,

I am just wanting to ask a question, I am getting a little older and maybe I have lost some of my testicular fortitude, but suppose I don't convert my Saiga, will it be less reliable, I mean with the more complex trigger system? Will longevity suffer?

Sorry about the stupid questions but I just wanted to ask those who know.

Thanks

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I just converted my Saiga-12 to 922r. I'm not too mechanically inclined and have very little tools to work with, but I'd just like to say it was worth every penny. My current configuration is Tapco AK synthetic buttstock, Tromix modded FCG and Tapco SAW grip (all black) and JTE mainspring. My only problem was that my drill is a POS and the rivets gave me some problems so I wasn't able to plug the old FCG holes. Overall it took about 4 hours with watching CSS videos on youtube and an extra set of hands. Now I am very confident in my ability to mod Saiga's and with how the trigger came it. The trigger now rivals my custom modded AR-15, it is simply superb. I'd like to thank my friend's Eric, Desiree and Greg Queen from CSS for all their support and patience.

 

 

That's how it all starts brother. At first you have a few tools and the pride of doing your own 922R compliance gunsmithing. Then you find yourself going to Harbor Freight and buying mini lathes and minimills (damn things actually work by the way). Then the gun builds begin and there is no going back.

Edited by jmdove

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